Anyone else notice the GOP has dropped the ACA (Obamacare) Rhetoric and Demands?

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posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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I thought their ultimate goal was the shutdown itself. I mean they`ve all pledged allegiance to Norquists goal of drowning the gub`ment in a bathtub. Their casus belli is getting all those pesky regulations off their investors back. Who needs a government anyway right? Infrastructure, health-services, enviromental protection and all of that are but obstructions of profit.

Each to his own and let god it sort out seems to be the order of the day




posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


" I am willing to negotiate on a budget, if the debt ceiling is raised without strings attached." - Obama

"Here is a debt ceiling increase to buy us 6 weeks time to negotiate on a budget with no strings attached" - GOP

"I reject this proposal" - Obama

Who is holding who hostage?

God Bless,



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Madness is keep doing something that doesn`t work. The proposal came with demands of spending cuts. Same sh**, different wrapping.

twitter.com...
edit on 11-10-2013 by MrSinister because: Linky


And to answer your question. The zealots of the TP are holding the nation, and ultimately the world economy hostage
edit on 11-10-2013 by MrSinister because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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I have never been big on polls, but for kicks I completed one on Friday that required an email verification before the vote would count, interesting results.

Why are other poll results in favor of The Great Obama, but when you get to an honest poll it show the opposite is true! Just got the result back from Fridays national poll... here are the results, I hear the people and from my point of view, glad to see results like this poll showed.

and as to the poster here, yep I do get the feeling of back peddling, but I don't think its necessary to shutdown government so long as they are negotiating on a long term solution to the budget issues.




posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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ElohimJD
reply to post by AlienScience
 


" I am willing to negotiate on a budget, if the debt ceiling is raised without strings attached." - Obama

"Here is a debt ceiling increase to buy us 6 weeks time to negotiate on a budget with no strings attached" - GOP

"I reject this proposal" - Obama

Who is holding who hostage?

God Bless,



Do you have an official source for that first quote? The reason I ask is because I think you just pulled it out of your ass or at the very least, out of context. President Obama has not said he would negotiate over the budget, at least not until the government shutdown was ended.

In fact he has repeatedly stated just the opposite. What he said was that he would NOT negotiate over the budget or the debt limit until the shutdown was ended, at which time he'd be happy to discuss and/or negotiate any topic on the GOP's mind.

You can't just keep making stuff up like that, man can't survive on ignorance alone.
edit on 11-10-2013 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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MrSinister

Madness is keep doing something that doesn`t work.


Like raising the debt limit, without spending cuts, when it is unsustainable.

Using trigger words like "zealout" (religious term) when describing a right wing fiscal responsible platform (not religious; although conservative), indicates the MSM has effectively engineered your thinking for you.

Republican = values FREEDOM at the expense of EQUALITY.
Democrate = values EQUALITY at the expense of FREEDOM.

That is the only difference in idealology. Both factors are needed and valuable. How far right or left one places themselves is how much of one area they desire at the greater degree of expense regarding the opposition.

Don't be a pawn, think logically.

How would you address you personal home budget?
How would you be fiscally responsible for maxed out credit in your home?

Stop allowing the MSM to tell you how to think and which words to apply to which demographic, if you do you'll end up drawing racist, sterotypical pictures of religious zealout hillbillies claiming Obama is the anti-christ and labeling 100 million American citizen as such...

God Bless,
edit on 11-10-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 11:42 AM
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Flatfish

Do you have an official source for that first quote? The reason I ask is because I think you just pulled it out of your ass. President Obama has not said he would negotiate over the budget, at least not until the government shutdown was ended.

In fact he has repeatedly stated just the opposite. What he said was that he would NOT negotiate over the budget or the debt limit until the shutdown was ended, at which time he'd be happy to discuss and/or negotiate any topic on the GOP's mind.

You can't just keep making stuff up like that, man can't survive on ignorance alone.



LINK
bankcreditnews.com...


President Obama willing to negotiate if debt ceiling, CR resolutions are passed

Published on October 10, 2013 by Sarah Jackson



Barack Obama

President Obama said during a press conference on Tuesday that if Republicans in Congress pass interim debt ceiling and continuing resolution measures, he would be willing to negotiate on healthcare, spending and the deficit.


It is possible this quote was not what Obama meant at the time. But your smugness and intellectual pride are rather off putting.

Couldn't you have asked for a source without calling me "ignorant" in your ingorance.

Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that God utters.

God Bless,



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Now tell me you don't see the difference in your first quote;



" I am willing to negotiate on a budget, if the debt ceiling is raised without strings attached." - Obama


and the one posted in your response to my query;



President Obama willing to negotiate if debt ceiling, CR resolutions are passed


Furthermore, you may want to make note of the fact that the statements you refer to are not indicated as being quotes from the President. Read the article, the author used quotation marks when quoting the President and those two statements were not marked as such.

Come On! Either it was ignorance or it was a purposeful attempt on your part to paint the President as a liar when nothing could be further from the truth.

Just like I stated, the President said he would be willing to negotiate anything "once the government shutdown was ended." Passing the CR resolution means re-opening the government.

I didn't mean to offend you with my harsh response to your post, but the propagation of misinformation by right-wingers here on ATS has risen to new heights and it's sickening. It's one thing to dislike the President, it's quite another to fictitiously portray him as a liar by deliberately misquoting him.

May God bless you too.
edit on 11-10-2013 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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ElohimJD

MrSinister

Madness is keep doing something that doesn`t work.


Like raising the debt limit, without spending cuts, when it is unsustainable.

The debt ceiling has to be raised, the "fiscal responsibility" practiced as spending cuts at that level, would tank the economy. Spending cuts in the military and surveillance budgets would be welcome though. If they won`t increase revenue by raising taxes, what`s the alternative? Trickle-down economy does not work.

Using trigger words like "zealout" (religious term) when describing a right wing fiscal responsible platform (not religious; although conservative), indicates the MSM has effectively engineered your thinking for you.

I was referring to the Tea-Party, case in point Michelle Bachman and that is just one. I confess to being secular, mea culpa. I`ve come to this conclusion by myself.

Republican = values FREEDOM at the expense of EQUALITY.
Democrate = values EQUALITY at the expense of FREEDOM.

That is the only difference in idealology. Both factors are needed and valuable. How far right or left one places themselves is how much of one area they desire at the greater degree of expense regarding the opposition.

This is where our roads part.

Don't be a pawn, think logically.

Contradict much?

How would you address you personal home budget?
How would you be fiscally responsible for maxed out credit in your home?

You cannot compare a nation to a household in economic terms. It is a poor trope.

Stop allowing the MSM to tell you how to think and which words to apply to which demographic, if you do you'll end up drawing racist, sterotypical pictures of religious zealout hillbillies claiming Obama is the anti-christ and labeling 100 million American citizen as such...

You actually summed it up pretty neatly, well done. Judging by this ongoing debacle with the shutdown and debt-ceiling, the far-right is acting irrational, immature and in contempt of proper democratic processes.

God Bless,
edit on 11-10-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)


Hail Eris!



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Lipton
 


My thoughts exactly. However, the first person who posted it just showed their true ignorant colors. If you don't like the person you're debating, or if you don't like their stance, go low and paint them all as inbred rednecks.

Is it any wonder why the U.S. is so screwed?



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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Shdak
Why are other poll results in favor of The Great Obama, but when you get to an honest poll it show the opposite is true!


The exact same way that Fox News and all the "honest" polls showed that Romney was going to win the last presidential election right up until Karl Rove nearly fell out of his chair on the air when the real elections returns came in. So much for your "honest" polls. Just keep on believing in them and see where it gets ya.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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To add. Check out he definition and origin of the term zealotry. You`d be hard pressed to find a more apt description of the tea-party IMO

edit on 11-10-2013 by MrSinister because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 02:44 PM
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Flatfish

Furthermore, you may want to make note of the fact that the statements you refer to are not indicated as being quotes from the President. Read the article, the author used quotation marks when quoting the President and those two statements were not marked as such.

Come On! Either it was ignorance or it was a purposeful attempt on your part to paint the President as a liar when nothing could be further from the truth.

Just like I stated, the President said he would be willing to negotiate anything "once the government shutdown was ended." Passing the CR resolution means re-opening the government.

I didn't mean to offend you with my harsh response to your post, but the propagation of misinformation by right-wingers here on ATS has risen to new heights and it's sickening. It's one thing to dislike the President, it's quite another to fictitiously portray him as a liar by deliberately misquoting him.

May God bless you too.
edit on 11-10-2013 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)


Very fair retort.

My oringial post was paraphrasing in my own words what I had read earlier, thus no source linked and it was written very susinctly (I also had no direct quote from the GOP in my paraphrasing either).

You are also correct in my attempt to find the source of what I read a while ago it did not include direct quotes from Obama, as such there is the potential for misquoting and misportraying Obama.

I am not right wing, but that is irrelavent to your retort.

You are correct though, I should have taken more time to produce a more accurate paraphrase to aviod painting Obama in a less flattering light then those on this site want him painted.

Thank you for the blessing.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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Shdak
I have never been big on polls, but for kicks I completed one on Friday that required an email verification before the vote would count, interesting results.

Why are other poll results in favor of The Great Obama, but when you get to an honest poll it show the opposite is true! Just got the result back from Fridays national poll... here are the results, I hear the people and from my point of view, glad to see results like this poll showed.

and as to the poster here, yep I do get the feeling of back peddling, but I don't think its necessary to shutdown government so long as they are negotiating on a long term solution to the budget issues.



Polls on the internet are always skewed because they do not take a proper statistical sampling. Polling conducted by legit polling places take statistical sampling of America. As for the GOP backing off, according my local house representative who is in the GOP and I supported said that he is not holding out and would vote for a clean bill if it was called. He also said it was not fair to blame the entire GOP for actions of a few trouble makers. I was with a local veterans and that is what he told us. Then again he is a politicain so who knows where he really stands beyond wanting to get re-elected.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 07:32 PM
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ElohimJD

Very fair retort.

My oringial post was paraphrasing in my own words what I had read earlier, thus no source linked and it was written very susinctly (I also had no direct quote from the GOP in my paraphrasing either).

You are also correct in my attempt to find the source of what I read a while ago it did not include direct quotes from Obama, as such there is the potential for misquoting and misportraying Obama.

I am not right wing, but that is irrelavent to your retort.

You are correct though, I should have taken more time to produce a more accurate paraphrase to aviod painting Obama in a less flattering light then those on this site want him painted.

Thank you for the blessing.


I commend you for being big enough to admit the error and I apologize if I offended you in any way.

My wife & I just got through watching a special on tv that showed how easy it was to totally change a person's memory of an event, even big events like 9-11. One of those ways was to repeat the false version enough times until it eventually became the official version. It just reaffirmed my belief that it's important to get it right, especially when it comes to the most divisive subject in America today, the Obama presidency and his namesake healthcare reform law, the PPACA or ObamaCare.

Now if you're really interested in why President Obama won't negotiate with Boehner and the GOP while the government shutdown is ongoing, it's because he can't. I'm not saying that Obama is incapable of doing it, I'm saying that Boehner & the GOP don't know how to negotiate in good faith and won't keep their word when they do.

Harry Reid stated on several occasions that he and John Boehner had an agreement back in July of this year where Boehner agreed to allow a vote on a clean C.R. in the House if the Senate would agree to the GOP's budget spending numbers. (which were 70 billion less that what the Democrats wanted)

So in essence, they negotiated and agreed to have their respective chambers vote on a clean C.R. at GOP spending levels with no riders or attachments. Well guess what happened next?

Bombshell; Boehner allowed the GOP to tack on the "defund/delay ObamaCare amendment" to the C.R. and hold the nation hostage if the Senate and/or the POTUS refused to accept it.

Now, how does one negotiate with someone who has proven not to keep their word in negotiations?

Answer; He/she doesn't!!!

For the record and just in case you may think I'm making this up, John Boehner admitted as much in his recent interview with George Stephanopoulos. George addresses the question just after the 3 minute mark in the video and Boehner doesn't deny the agreement was made.



As a retired union representative who has negotiated more binding contracts than I care to remember, I can tell you that rule number 1 is to never enter into negotiations with someone who is either unwilling and/or unable to fulfill the agreements they make during said negotiations. To do so is an exercise in futility.

While I'll admit that President Obama has done some things that I totally disagree with, standing his ground at this point in time is not one of them.

Oh yeah, at my house we make the reaffirmation that; "You are blessed"

Have a great day.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


Wait to paint with that broad brush. No wonder this forum is a cesspool that cannot discuss anything. Good lord...



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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MrSinister
To add. Check out he definition and origin of the term zealotry. You`d be hard pressed to find a more apt description of the tea-party IMO

edit on 11-10-2013 by MrSinister because: (no reason given)


It can be applied to all on the Hill; stop pretending just because you believe in that zealotry that is telling you to not like the other team because of their zealotry.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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AlienScience

Krazysh0t
You know what else is interesting? That you believe that continually raising the debt ceiling is a viable solution to fixing our economy.


No, what is interesting is that you think our economy needs to be "fixed".

The debt ceiling is an antiquated law that should have been repealed a long time ago. It does absolutely nothing to stop our debt from accumulating. If they wanted to do that, the law would have to be applied to laws being passed...not after the fact when the money is already spent. All the debt ceiling does is put our economy and credit rating in jeopardy because it allows idiots to attempt to use it as a bargaining tool.

Our debt ratio is not a problem, which is why we are still considered the worlds economic powerhouse and why people still want to buy our debt. The only real problem is that the GOP has sold this idea to the, not very intelligent, American public that "big numbers = bad". You never hear them talk about the debt ratio to the GDP or our Wealth...only about how "big the debt is".

Answer me something...if someone who is making 15k a year has 500k in debt, would you say that is a bad thing? How about if someone who is making 10 million a year has 500k in debt, would you say that is a bad thing?

Do you see the difference?



Our debt ratio is not a problem, which is why we are still considered the worlds economic powerhouse


We're still considered the economic powerhouse because we have the highest GDP in the world. No other reason. Also, other countries don't want to buy our debt, they have to -- it's a bailout, because America is too big to go bankrupt, considering the world depends on our currency [as it's currently the world reserve, particularly because we have the highest GDP of any other country in the world.]

What planet do you live on that you think the gross domestic profit of the country is bigger than the debt?

For reference;

Us debt as of today
$16,749,519,620,979.54

US GDP 2012
$14,991,300,000,000.00

This means if every single person in the country gave every penny we had [every single one] for a whole year, that we would still be in debt.

Now, consider the cost of living and tell me how long that would take to pay when nearly 90% of American's are spending over 95% of their earnings on necessities. Food/Housing/Phones/Cars/Gas/Doctor's/Forced Insurance/Electric/Water/Child Care/School.

Yeah, lets also not factor in maintenance for infrastructure, bridges/roads/civics/traffic devices/surveillance.

Lets forget about social programs and municipalities too... None of those need funding, nah -- not at all.

After all that you're cut down to a few billion from your 14 trillion, to pay off 16 trillion. All the while the military keeps spending nearly a trillion a year all by itself.

Serious problem.

Also, with the debt getting bigger and bigger and bigger, it's only going to be more unfeasible to ever pay down. So if we don't start fixing it now [while it's reasonable to fix] we're never going to be able to fix it.

How do you see this as not a problem?

How much do you think the debt will be in 2 years time?

Considering When bush jr was elected our debt was at 5.8 trillion, and when he was out it was 10.

Obama comes in at 10, and after just 4 years he's at 16 trillion.

So Obama adds 6 trillion to the debt in 4 years. [Half the time as Bush Jr.] Bush Jr. adds 4.3 trillion in 8 years.

Bush was ridiculous -- Obama is magnitudes beyond.



The point being, Debt is exponential. The more things you purchase, the more things you must maintain. The more assets you have, the more you spend on them. America is spending way too much on the military industrial complex and not enough to cover the costs of operating.

For a country to have a GDP of 14 trillion [the highest in the world] and need to borrow from other less successful countries is incredibly laughable in it's own right, and extremely telling of the problem.

Also, do you think these other countries are happy to bail us out and give us loans to operate?

You think China is so nice and likes us so much that they give us a loan?

No, they do it because they have to. America is "Too Big to Fail." If America fails, the global economy breaks down.

I don't know if you're aware that the Chinese government hates us -- you know this right?

People still don't see why the rest of the world hates America... It flabbergasts me.

We # up other people's countries with ill intent for greedy reasons, and we also force other countries to prop us up as we negligently spend all our own money on business that doesn't involve us.

Really sounds like it doesn't need fixing, really sounds like we should just keep status quo right?

/not.
edit on 11-10-2013 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)





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