Anyone else notice the GOP has dropped the ACA (Obamacare) Rhetoric and Demands?

The reason the Republicans are dropping the Obamacare mantra is because they got a memo from the folks that will ultimately profit from Obamacare. The insurance companies and big pharma.

The memo read....

If you want your healthy campaign contributions in the next go round...STFU!!!

To me, this shows that they have already caved and hopefully will drop this ridiculous stunt and actually do their job.

The US government shutdown is not what you think.

The Globalist's game has changed and the fecal material is hitting the seat of the Banksters pants. That is what I explain in the posts below.

The International Bankers are meeting in Washington NOW. Their plans are in complete disarray. China, Russia and the BRICS countries out maneuvered them.

Sep 5, 2013 - BRICS agree to capitalize development bank at $100bn

This means the IMF and World Bank now have a rival that the City of London Banksters DO NOT CONTROL.

They now have to rethink what they want to do.

The Tea Party/GOP/Obamacare is just a convenient scapegoat to keep the masses from figuring out what is REALLY GOING ON.

I outline with links the international chest game in the following posts in the thread: IMF, World Bank 2013 annual meeting in Washington

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

For the Republicans I go after Clinton here but more important I explain the reasoning behind the Globalists actions. The concept is called 'Interdependence'
www.abovetopsecret.com...

For the Democrats I go after Reagan here and how he aided the globaist plans.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's really not to difficult to respond.

The Koch brothers have told the Rep. party was told by them to NOT use Obamacare to force the Dems to cave.

Easy as that

www.abovetopsecret.com...



This has been the GOPs gameplan for almost a week now.

As I said in that thread:

They're discussing how certain words/phrases affect the general public and the response those phrases illicit to determine what talking points need to be pushed to get the response they want. Marketing 101.

The reason why the word propaganda is no longer used to describe this, in common language, is because Joseph Goebbeles and the Nazis ruined the word propaganda. It was rebranded as "Public Relations" and more recently "Social Engineering".

You can say the same thing 100 different ways, and each way will have a different way that it affects a person internally and emotionally. Hence why they're discussing which phrase to keep repeating - and how those words tested in their poll groups. Which phrase will illicit the response from the public they're attempting to achieve...

It takes repeating something 8 times in 1 minute for it to become embedded in your memory. This is how most pop music (ear worms) are built as well.

reply to post by AlienScience


As regards the Obamacare, it was well reported last week that the rank and file GOP'ers were simply not in support of their leadership Et Al over the care package. So the emphasis is now on Obama's intransigence over just about anything. It's the kettle calling the pot black. Pretty soon they'll latch onto something mundane that both sides can bicker over, like lowering the minimum wage/raising the minimum wage then they'll kiss and make up!

StallionDuck
With all the BS about the shutdown being the GOP's fault, plastered on every news channel but Fox, maybe they've figured that it's pointless to go after that tactic anymore. According to much of the main stream news and the papers, and the magazines, the shutdown is all the Republicans fault.

Other than here, I suppose no one else really get's it.

I guess they're trying to play a different hand, now.

The shutdown is the Tea Party's fault.

The GOP is suffering the consequences because they don't have the backbone to stand up to the minority Tea Party and tell them what they need to hear...that they are batcrap crazy and stupid to boot.

The shutdown is the Republicans fault. General rule, if Fox News is saying one thing, then the complete opposite is most likely the truth.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Ah the tired debt ratio argument. The argument that we can have a debt as high as we want as long as GDP is high enough. This despite GDP calculations can take into account the same dollar multiple times (meaning it would be physically impossible to take the nation's entire yearly GDP and pay the debt with it). Ignoring the fact that a country should have a debt to GDP ratio of about 40% (ours is over two times that), this is a weak judge of a healthy economy. Not to mention we don't pay the debt with our GDP, we pay it with our taxes. So your analogy is kind of misinformed.

LOL.

It's not a tired argument...it is solid proven economics. Why do you think we are the economic powerhouse of the world? There is one very simple reason why the dollar rules in the world economy...it is because our debt. If we have no debt to sell, the dollar has no global value.

It is very clear to see that you have very little comprehension on economics outside of balancing your check book...and you think that your understanding of that microeconomics applies to macroeconomics.

Don't worry, you aren't alone...most of the Tea Party is right there with you. The true threat to our country is that people like you vote in people who have the same flawed understanding of the economy as you do. And those people go to Washington and screw things up. There is no mistake that our first credit downgrade corresponds with idiot Tea Party politicians threatening to default.


There is a point where too much debt is bad...we are no where near that point. Even if the GOP and Fox News keeps repeating the big scary number that scares you into thinking debt is bad...we are no where near that point.

Also one last point. If you honestly believe that we have a healthy economy, than you are surely a lost soul who has been blinded by the Democratic party's rhetoric. Since we don't have a healthy economy, then one can come to the conclusion that the economy needs fixing. This should just be standard knowledge, not something "interesting".

Yes, we have a healthy economy.

You and so many Americans are so clueless about how good we have it in our economy.

If you don't think we have a good economy, please point me to a country that has your definition of a good economy. I really hope you point to the countries I think you will...because you won't like the answer to why they have an even better economy than we do.

GrantedBail
This fight was never over the ACA. That was all just red meat for their crazy religious right base. This is all about getting the cuts to entitlement programs that the hard right and the billionaires in the country have been drooling over for years.

This is the crazy base of these Tea Baggers:

edit on 10-10-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)

That is such an accurate and scary depiction of what is really going on with the GOP.

Idiots are ruling the day on the Right Wing.

Reagan would be called a "liberal" by todays Right Wing...and even John McCain who Republicans used to love is now considered a RINO. Why???? Because he dares talk to Democrats to work on solutions.

Our only hope is that we can survive the next 10 years, at which point the GOP will commit suicide and die.

reply to post by muse7

Lol if the Debt ceiling was not raised and the Government started to lay off workers and restrict access to memorials and national parks which require government workers, t

Really ?

Immigration rallies had no problems.Since the so called 'shutdown'.

Hell Pelosi was there.

reply to post by AlienScience


First off, I'm not a Republican and therefore not a Tea Partier. I am a Libertarian, so when talking to me, you may want to drop the TP label you are using. I understand economics better than you think I do and the Debt to GDP ratio is a HUGE lie that you are believing.

I want you to read this next sentence very carefully: GDP isn't (and more importantly can't be) used to repay any debt whatsoever. Therefore it has no business being coupled with debt to determine a healthy debt level. Also keep in mind that the Fed injects $85 billion a month into the economy (which the government borrows). That means that the debt increases by $85 billion a month and the GDP increases by some multiplier (determined by the current fractional reserve ratio). In other words that would be like taking out a loan once a month for the same amount each time and then turning around and putting that amount on your income (multiplied by some number) for the next month's credit application. Creditors would laugh at you if you tried to do that.

Now explain to me a few things, how can we need to inject $85 billion a month into the economy to keep in afloat? You know because if we stop then the low interest payment we are paying on our debt would shoot back up to its traditional 5+% and we'd be unable to service the debt. How is it that unemployment is so crappy right now? Notice in that link that u-6 is 13.7%, almost double the lie that is U-3 (the nationally reported number). And u-6 doesn't even take into account the real unemployment. Why is Detroit bankrupt? One would think that a healthy economy wouldn't have cities in anarchy. Why is the wealth gap higher than ever? You'd think with a healthy economy everyone in the country should be enjoying a good standard of living not just the super rich.

To answer your question about which countries I think have healthy economies, I'd say that the only one I can think of is Iceland. But that is because they jailed their bankers, let their economy crash, and let it recover naturally. Something that we are going to have to do eventually whether we like it or not.

Seriously, you need to stop hanging on the Democrats' every word. They have been lying to you for the last 5 years. Don't worry, the Republicans are no better, if they were in charge they'd be telling the same or similar lies. You need to wake up, everything is NOT fine. We cannot continue to do what we are doing indefinitely. We need to slow down our spending and pay off some of this debt.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

First off, I'm not a Republican and therefore not a Tea Partier. I am a Libertarian, so when talking to me, you may want to drop the TP label you are using.

Sure...whatever you say. This is the latest thing Republicans say when they are ashamed of being a Republican...and then they go on to defend, even illogically, every move the Republicans make.

GDP isn't (and more importantly can't be) used to repay any debt whatsoever.

And if you were talking about microeconomics (which you are mistakenly are and trying to apply to macroeconomics), you would have a point. But since you very clearly don't comprehend economies...you are just looking foolish.

how can we need to inject $85 billion a month into the economy to keep in afloat? You know because if we stop then the low interest payment we are paying on our debt would shoot back up to its traditional 5+% and we'd be unable to service the debt.

Because we can...it's as simple as that. Our economy is so strong that we can do this and the rest of the world doesn't blink because they know that.

The interest rates are being kept low to help out the economy, not the government. It is businesses and individuals that are being helped by QE, not the government. The Government would love to stop doing this, but we aren't quite out of the danger zone of dropping back into a recession.

How is it that unemployment is so crappy right now? Notice in that link that u-6 is 13.7%, almost double the lie that is U-3 (the nationally reported number). And u-6 doesn't even take into account the real unemployment.

The U6 is always high...usually around 8-9%...so 13.7% isn't surprising at all. I love how you say U3 is a lie...but bring up the U6 as an argument to support your opinion. They are calculated by the same agency and the same way they have been for years.

NEWS FLASH, the U6 is ALWAYS higher than the U3. The U3 has ALWAYS been reported as the official unemployment number.

So why do you question it now, but not in the past? Agenda? Dishonesty? Blindly following exactly what the Republicans and Fox News are telling you to believe?

Oh right...you aren't a Republican...you just parrot exactly everything they say and stand for.

Why is the wealth gap higher than ever? You'd think with a healthy economy everyone in the country should be enjoying a good standard of living not just the super rich.

Because there is very little regulation. Because our "minimum wage" is laughable. Because we comparatively tax middle and low income incredibly high compared to high income. We let corporations rape the economy, employees, and the environment.

Because our country is obsessed with profit and capitalism...that is why the wealth gap is so high.

To answer your question about which countries I think have healthy economies, I'd say that the only one I can think of is Iceland.

LOL...oh yeah...great example. Countries are flocking to invest in Iceland.

Hey...how do you like their taxes?

Seriously, you need to stop hanging on the Democrats' every word. They have been lying to you for the last 5 years. Don't worry, the Republicans are no better, if they were in charge they'd be telling the same or similar lies. You need to wake up, everything is NOT fine. We cannot continue to do what we are doing indefinitely. We need to slow down our spending and pay off some of this debt.

My ideology closely lines up with Democrats on most, but not all, issues. And I'm fine admitting that...unlike you.

Why do we only need to pay off some of the debt? I thought debt was bad...I thought it was evil and any debt at all will kill us all? Why just slow down the spending...we don't need government right?

Let me guess though...if Ron Paul, the REPUBLICAN, was in charge...everything would be great...right???

Until you can point to one concrete fact that shows our national debt is causing us harm, and not just parroting Fox News that a big number is bad...please just stop...you aren't doing yourself any favors.

LOL, sorry i just cant leave that there. Its sad
edited

AlienScience

They dropped "defunding Obamacare" before the shutdown even happened. It went from Republicans saying "Defund Obamacare, Remove Medical Device Tax, and Delay the individual mandate or we will shut down the government" to "Well ok, forget about the defunding...but still remove the tax and delay it a year"....to "How about just delay it?"...to now just completely changing the narrative and saying "This was all about fiscal responsibility".

Well, it would seem to me, based on your quote, the Republicans are the only ones negotiating! BTW, it is the House that holds the purse strings, not the Senate. Therefore, if the House did not want to fund Obamacare, then they should not have to.

Obamacare can be the "law", as you put it, but that doesn't mean that it is funded, or that it will be funded in the future. We have many "laws" that are not funded.

reply to post by SourGrapes

Well, it would seem to me, based on your quote, the Republicans are the only ones negotiating! BTW, it is the House that holds the purse strings, not the Senate. Therefore, if the House did not want to fund Obamacare, then they should not have to.

Republicans aren't negotiating, they are just realizing that they can't blackmail the President to do what they want. They are dropping their hostage demands...that isn't exactly negotiating.

And yes, this new Republican talking point of "the House controls the purse strings" (I mean, word for word this has been repeated over and over)...except it isn't entirely true. Funding bills must originate in the House, that doesn't mean they get the final and single say on what does or does not get funded. They pass it and send it off to the Senate, the Senate is within their right to amend it, pass it, and send it back to the House...which is exactly what they did. Also, the President has to approve it.

So to say that the "control" the purse strings and get to decide what is and isn't funded is false. Plus, the ACA doesn't need congressional appropriations and funding...the funding is inside the bill. And to show even more how uninformed you are, Republicans aren't even talking about defunding the ACA anymore...that is a 2 week old talking point...you should keep up.

Obamacare can be the "law", as you put it, but that doesn't mean that it is funded, or that it will be funded in the future. We have many "laws" that are not funded.

It is funded, and funded very well...for at least the next 10 years. And it is funded independently of the budget process and independent of congressional appropriations. This was all written into the law itself, because Democrats knew that if the didn't do that the Republicans would try to play their reindeer games and try not to fund it.

You see, if the ACA was tied to the budget and appropriations, all the Republicans would have to do is shut down the government like they did and the ACA would also halt because it would have no money to operate. But as you can see, the government shutdown isn't affecting the ACA at all.

The ACA is moving forward, the Republicans can't stop it...this is their last ditch effort to do so. People are already enrolled in the exchanges...it is already too late.

reply to post by AlienScience


Sigh... There is no helping you. You've even convinced yourself that I am a Republican despite telling you that this is not so. Just because my views are aligning more closely to Republicans right now doesn't suddenly make me a Republican. Democrats have just gone SOOOOO far left that there is very few things I can relate to with their party. By the way I do think universal healthcare is a good idea. I DON'T think Obamacare is a good idea (it isn't universal healthcare, it is buy healthcare or else we throw you in jail). One more point, I haven't even given you my entire political philosophy, so again you are ASSUMING things about me and you need to stop RIGHT NOW. Not to mention I shouldn't have to spell out my political philosophy to you for you to believe my political affiliation.

You don't even understand my point about the GDP to debt ratio. Again GDP cannot be used to repay debt. It is an arbitrary number created to represent the economies output. It has no business being coupled with the government's debt. It is absurd. I'm not sure how you are failing to understand this point. Just because it has always been done this way, doesn't mean it is the correct way of going about things.

Let's talk about the default. To be honest I think we SHOULD default. In the long run it would be FAR better for our country and get us out of this middling economy that we have. Here is a link from one of my favorite LIBERTARIAN websites about defaulting on the debt. Not to mention it is also for Austrian Economics and not Keynesian Economics which you seem to think I don't understand.

There Is Life after Default

In following the debates over raising the US debt ceiling, I’m struck by the frequent claim that defaulting on public debt is unthinkable because of the “signal” that would send. If you can’t rely on the T-bill, what can you rely on? Debt instruments backed by the “full faith and credit” of the United States are supposed to be risk-free — almost magically so — somehow transcending the vagaries of ordinary debt markets. The Treasury bill, in other words, has become a myth and symbol, just like the US Constitution.

I find this line of reasoning unpersuasive. A T-bill is a bond just like any other bond. Corporations, municipalities, and other issuers default on bonds all the time, and the results are hardly catastrophic.

Financial markets have been restructuring debt for many centuries, and they’ve gotten pretty good at it. From the discussion regarding T-bills, you’d think no one had ever heard of default-risk premiums before. (Interestingly, this seems to be a case of American exceptionalism: people aren’t particularly happy about Greek, Irish, and Portuguese defaults, but no one thinks the world will end because of them.)

Between 1841 and 1843 eight states and one territory defaulted on their obligations, and by the end of the decade four states and one territory had repudiated all or part of their debts. These debts are properly seen as sovereign debts both because the United States Constitution precludes suits against states to enforce the payment of debts, and because most of the state debts were held by residents of other states and other countries (primarily Britain). ...
In spite of the inability of the foreign creditors to impose direct sanctions, most U.S. states repaid their debts. It appears that states repaid in order to maintain their access to international capital markets, much like in reputational models. The states that repaid were able to borrow more in the years leading up to the Civil War, while those that did not repay were, for the most part, unable to do so. States that defaulted temporarily were able to regain access to the credit market by settling their old debts. More surprisingly, two states that repudiated a part of their debt were able to regain access to capital markets after servicing the remainder of their debt for a time.

reply to post by olaru12

The reason the Republicans are dropping the Obamacare mantra is because they got a memo...

Hate to break it to you but the last attempt by the House was fully fund the government and no special waivers for Congress and their staff, and no waivers for big business without the same waivers for individuals. Obama and the Democrats in the Senate said NO.

Seems some pigs are more equal than the rest of the animals.

Folks, we should have known we were all screwed when they closed the doors to the White House and then never reopened them. They all suck. The Republicans or at least those who oppose this are simply being killed in the MSM and they may be realizing that the plan all along was to kill their chances for any election hopes in 2014 and then for the next POTUS.

Damage control is in effect and the regime is getting an open checkbook again soon. Then they will look like saviours and not the dirtbags that we tried to make them.

GrantedBail

I'd post a political cartoon depicting inner city [insert racial slur here] doing [insert profiled act] , but it seems that it is only acceptable to draw and print caricatures of white people.

Why doesn`t congress finally just pass a budget? then we wouldn`t have this continuing cycle of budget drama over continuing resolutions.

reply to post by AlienScience

Anyone else notice the GOP has dropped the ACA (Obamacare) Rhetoric and Demands?

Yeah, I noticed that too and if you think that's funny, just wait until you see them drop their jaws on the floor after the 2014 midterms.

F&S for the OP!