Why Americans are being prevented with armed force from entering National Lands

gestapo tactics?....ahhh, poor, poor, americans can't go into parks.....what a shame, more than 800,000 thrown out of their jobs....but...take away vacations in parks, and that is what gets you angry?????

ImaFungi
Maybe they are selling the national parks to china?

for real though, honest opinion, if the parks are closed... you cant just have people entering them and setting up camp, liabilities, pollution, cults, destruction are the main reasons id say.

I do a lot of camping and hiking in the National Parks, National Forests, and Wilderness areas (there's many different entities that control these public lands). The "campgrounds" are small areas (often smaller than a football field) with set sites for pitching a tent. There may be 20-75 "sites" at any given campground. The roads are gravel or dirt, usually poorly maintained to keep the "rustic" feel of the area. Sites can be anywhere from 15 feet to 100 feet apart, not particularly private.

Anyway, the campgrounds for the FS are run by a private company. This company contracts with retirees and travelers who "camp out" at the campsites as "hosts" for a season, usually in a big camper with a/c, satellite, etc. The "hosts" collect camping fees, do routine maintenance, and clean the toilets/area. The campgrounds usually have private, local garbage pickup. The fees are then remitted to the Feds. Nowadays, you can even reserve a campsite and pay for it online, so there's often little cash collection.

The point is, these campgrounds could certainly continue on as they have done for decades, with or without the "shutdown."

Concerning "other" activities taking place in these parks, while there is remote camping, it is a definite skill, with serious and possibly deadly consequences if not done right, not something one undertakes just to be a "poacher" while the parks are closed. I would suggest there is nothing to worry about there.

As far as hiking, I was hiking in Targhee NF, next to Yellowstone, about three weeks ago. So, like in most national forests, there's trailheads with small gravel parking areas, usually right off the main road or down a gravelly, rutted dirt road. The gravel lots are generally unmaintained except maybe for a leveling or two every year; and a TH sign and sometimes a sign-in booth (a box on a post with a binder where you sign your name/date/# in your party).

In my YEARS of hiking these national parks, I've never seen a ranger in one of these lots or on a trail. Sometimes I'll see them parked along the road, and some parks have kiosks (like a toll booth) so cars can pay to get in (Rocky Mountain and certain Yellowstone entrances).

So for there to be actual "park rangers" (who are law enforcement, IIRC) on the trails kicking people off the trails is unbelievable. Seeing one ranger on a trail "closing" the trail would be one more than I've seen in the past five years on any trail.

Point is, in order to "close" a campground or hiking trail, it takes more active involvement and effort on the part of the Fed than it does to keep it "open." I hope this explanation sheds light on just how screwed up this situation is.

reply to post by LanceCorvette

Have you ever tried to camp in a state park in WA state? Well, if you make reservations, the company that takes care of it is from Canada. They are hard to get a hold of if you need them on a weekend as they seem to have short hours of operation then . If you arrive at a sight and request a site change at check-in, the rangers on site actually need to do it through this foreign entity. Totally messed up system if you ask me, not to mention, the fees are ridiculous for using them .

I think the BWCA (Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness) is a similar operation. Why can't we keep our park administration and reservation in the US?

reply to post by burdman30ott6

Tsk, yeeahhhh... I know, so sad to think that taxpayers actually get something tangible in return for the taxes they pay, awwwww.... *tear*

Oh, we get a ton of stuff for the taxes we pay. But partial ownership and say over federal land is not one of them.

These are called facts...what you are stating is a mis-informed opinion.

It's a shame to see that you clearly are a litterbug and/or a vandal. Only that could explain why you automatically presume the parks require uninterrupted maintenance and protection. Personally, I pick up my own crap (and any trash I find usually) and, hard though it is, have always resisted the urge to destroy every picnic table I see.

I do the same. Unfortunately, we are in the minority. People are mostly trash and they don't respect much. Are you honestly saying that national parks don't need maintenance? That good Samaritans will pick up after themselves and take care of the parks out of the goodness of their hearts?

Please don't tell me you are that naïve.

If you feel that strongly about needing your overlords' watchfull eyes and protective chokehold over your public lands activities, please just stay home and don't wreck it for the rest of us, who are more mature and responsible with our tax investment.

The irony of this statement.

I know the need for maintenance because I know people.

Here is a little hint...people don't respect rules so much that they are breaking into closed parks, monuments, and memorials. But you seem to think they are respectful enough to take care of it on their own...when they aren't even respectful enough to follow simple rules.

You got a problem with the Shut Down? Blame Congress.

reply to post by TownCryer


I blame the 4th Reich!!

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Well, at first I though that a theory about National Parks being closed was going to be somewhat hard to swallow, but this was well-written, I'm not sure if there is a direct link (although there could be), but there could definitely be a secondary link -

as in the parks could have been closed due to budget issues, but that makes it more convenient to turn them over to China, or maybe you are right about it happening eventually, and us coming close to a default makes it more of an issue.

Meanwhile, I had no idea that we had that deal with China to let them take land from our own country in order to repay our debts - as that seems to be the case, I could definitely see that playing out within a few decades.

AlienScience
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Tsk, yeeahhhh... I know, so sad to think that taxpayers actually get something tangible in return for the taxes they pay, awwwww.... *tear*

Oh, we get a ton of stuff for the taxes we pay. But partial ownership and say over federal land is not one of them.

These are called facts...what you are stating is a mis-informed opinion.

It's a shame to see that you clearly are a litterbug and/or a vandal. Only that could explain why you automatically presume the parks require uninterrupted maintenance and protection. Personally, I pick up my own crap (and any trash I find usually) and, hard though it is, have always resisted the urge to destroy every picnic table I see.

I do the same. Unfortunately, we are in the minority. People are mostly trash and they don't respect much. Are you honestly saying that national parks don't need maintenance? That good Samaritans will pick up after themselves and take care of the parks out of the goodness of their hearts?

Please don't tell me you are that naïve.

If you feel that strongly about needing your overlords' watchfull eyes and protective chokehold over your public lands activities, please just stay home and don't wreck it for the rest of us, who are more mature and responsible with our tax investment.

The irony of this statement.

I know the need for maintenance because I know people.

Here is a little hint...people don't respect rules so much that they are breaking into closed parks, monuments, and memorials. But you seem to think they are respectful enough to take care of it on their own...when they aren't even respectful enough to follow simple rules.

Where do you think the money came from to buy the Public lands? The federal Government is not a person it is a bunch of positions for persons working for the public. They don't have any money to spend on land if it did not come from the public. EVERYTHING belongs to the people. Each state should care for the land inside it's own borders and each should be required to set aside land for common use, no land should be under federal domain at all.

The majority of public lands in the United States are held in trust for the American people by the federal government

en.wikipedia.org...

In our area there are many campgrounds where you self pay and no one maintains them on a regular basis, they are not being abused. there are also many places you can camp in the woods anywhere and there are some no pay campgrounds which have outhouses. i have never seen garbage nor abuse of these places, generally people who enjoy nature love nature enough to care for it.

Places have been closed that make no sense, not even letting people take pictures from the open roads like at Rushmore

Thanks for laying this out so succinctly...what's most amazing--and perhaps most creepy--is how so many americans are still backing Obama with cult-like support. I remember when liberals and democrats used to be compassionate and we used to have an actual free press that served the people some of the time.

When did liberals turn into such thugs? Why are we settling for propaganda instead of a free press?

Tomorrow the truckers are scheduled to hit DC--hope the cops don't murder any of them.

reply to post by usernameconspiracy




You obviously have NO clue what you're talking about. Thers literally dozens of news articles in just the last week regarding China warning the US about controlling its debt.

As the matter of fact...China hasn't bought any US Bonds IN MONTHS. China would be retarded to continue buying US debt at this point. Furthermore, perhaps you should read about China and Russia buying TONS of gold in the last two years. The countries in the S. Pacific are RIGHT NOW trying to replace the reserve currency....the US dollar.

Want more? Ok....China is currently in negotiations with both Russia and Syria for the transport of natural gas AND oil. How are they paying? With Chinas own currency...the YUAN.

You sir are horribly misinformed and have no business even posting the word vomit you have been on this thread. You need to actually do some research before you can pull the woll over peeps eyes here on ATS.

Try again....Ill be waiting to prove you wrong....again and again.

No such thing.

Ooops, i forgot... !!!!!

reply to post by AbleEndangered


No such thing.

Ooops, i forgot... !!!!!

evc1shop

geobro
america has given the chinese a beachhead already by giving them a naval deepwater base in san fransisco .

when i read about that it shocked me then their was talk of giving the chinese 30 miles sq of land for a city .

canada and australia have seen big chunks of farm land bought up so why not america .

god help america not god bless should be the new anthem

Are you referring to the 50 square miles that China was trying to set up a Sovereign City in Idaho back in 2011?
It was to have its own International Airport, too. Talk about a back door into America.

I am not sure what happened to the whole plan, might be time to revisit it all.

ETA: Here is a link describing it: Bejing in Idaho

edit on 10-10-2013 by evc1shop because: eta

.


that's the one i remember i also remember the deep port in s/f that they were getting .

going a tiny bit senile with all the reading thank you for finding bud

EMBRACE THE ABSURD!

I didn't have time to read all of the replies so maybe someone already covered this...

Maybe the reason our government is arming up with tanks and all this ammunition for the DHS is to be ready incase China tries to do any sketchy stuff while they're taking our land...

HUMBLEONE
EMBRACE THE ABSURD!

I FREQUENTLY DO!



(Care to elaborate on you comment, dude?)

Honestabe28
Maybe the reason our government is arming up with tanks and all this ammunition for the DHS is to be ready incase China tries to do any sketchy stuff while they're taking our land...

I have to ask for a little clarification here. Wouldn't you consider any foreign country seizing American land thanks to illegal, non-sovreign agreements made by America's "leaders" to be sketchy to begin with?

Unfortunately, I would suspect that the amassing of weapons and ammo by the feds delves further into the obscene... Regardless of whether this theory of mine in the OP proves true or ridiculous, I am of the belief that those unprecidented ammo purchases had a dual purpose.
1. To reduce the availability of ammunition for purchase by the public at-large. (manufactured scarcity)
2. For use against those American citizens who dare to fight back against whatever the government instructs them to do blindly.

reply to post by AbleEndangered


sometime after 2016 but before 2022. impact in the atlantic. tsunami of biblical proportions. east coast plus hundreds of miles inland of usa completed wiped out. not to worry NY. you will have been depopulated by a FF WMD event by then. Lame Cherry-2013

reply to post by burdman30ott6



Well, this IS America. If your OP proves correct, America will NOT stand for foreign presence inside these borders.

Sure, we can do it anywhere we want, but this is the USA by god!

People would take to the streets.
Good thing they have all the ammo....

ETA: "USA! USA! USA!"

reply to post by Honestabe28


China doesn't hold enough of our debt to try to take anything. In fact SS trust funds hold over 2.6 trillion dollars in US debt and the Federal Reserve owns over 1.6 trillion in US debt.

In fact since China has declined buying US Treasuries, countries like Japan and our other allies have increased buying. So all this talk about China taking our land is completely bogus. Maybe be concerned about the Federal Reserve, seeing it is a private company, but China, don't make me laugh