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America and its last free breath. A Rant by the Kid.

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posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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Justify your position how ever you wish and split hairs if you must but you can not LEGALLY (and have never been able to legally) force your opinion or voice upon someone who doesn't wish to hear it. Now, I may have started a logical discussion of our rights under the constitution in a thread to merely get your frustrations out at Bush but thats the luck of the draw.

I have notcied none of you have taken issue with the heart of the matter I'm discussing here. I think, in large part we can all agree that no one has the right to march through any place at any time subjecting others to rhetoric if they are in that place for other reasons. We have liberties people, not freedoms.

The DNC and the GOP have no responsiblity to give anyone a place to protest them nor should they. If they're conventioned are held legally then so shoudl the protest against them. Neither has the constitutional right to infringe upon the other.

You cannot march through the streets breaking jaywalking laws and impedding the flow of traffic and endangering those not willing to participatebut you can plan a protest at a public or private place if it is such a place that is willing and can legally accomodate you...and can carry out said meeting without disruption.

Our laws are not in place to strip us of our rights, they are there to make sure others do not force theirs upon the rest of us.

There is a distinct and definet line and you all know when you cross it. If I held a scout meeting at a local church and you showed up to protest us and ineterfeared to the point we could not conduct our business, then my friend you have not exercised your right but impedded ours.

That has always been the law, is currently the law, and I hope to God it will always be the law. Just because you disagree with something does not give you the right to force anyone else to hear your opinion.

Again, the right to free speech verses the right to be heard.




posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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We lose a little freedom from each administration, however, noone can deny the fact that in US history, the Bush administration is responsible for taking more away from the American people then any before him. The facts are there and this cant be argued.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
We lose a little freedom from each administration, however, noone can deny the fact that in US history, the Bush administration is responsible for taking more away from the American people then any before him. The facts are there and this cant be argued.


Let's not forget Klinton. After the Murrah Building in Oklahoma was blown to hell, he got the anti-terrorist legislation he had been previously denied.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how angry Bush supporters are in general? I guess you get that way when you're full of self-loathing.


Is actually quite the contrary...all the violence comes from liberals/greens etc... You can see that most of the angry responses come from your side of the fence. Are we human and do we sometimes react to insults?....of course we do.... if we take the example from the majority of liberals/greens and other third party candidates, including some democrats, many if not most seem to like to resort to name calling and insults, among other things....for all the peace and love you people like to preach to want many of you sure are aggressive and "full of self-loathing."

Look at your post......you yourself just resorted to insulting all Republicans....and you are claiming we are the angry ones...




[edit on 16-11-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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I'm a Republican. Hate to blow your hypothisis out of the water.
It's because of the hostile nature and views of the GOP I am ready to leave the party behind. It's going nowhere. Just like the Democrat party.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
The facts are there and this cant be argued.



Boy, are you ever in the wrong place with that attitude. You'll find that pretty much anything you post on here can and will be debated. Thats what ATS is all about. Now, I've posted the evidence that just because you cannot kick the doors in on any group you wish and force them to listen to your side of it, doesn't mean your consitutional rights have been stripped away..it just means there are laws to prohibit you from infringing on theirs as well. No one has been able to answer that as all I have gaotten are a couple post "Its all Bush's fault" post leading me to believ its still sinking in.

Look, I'm not a Bush supporter but I am an equal rights supporter. I think the same laws need to apply to all of us. I don't expect to force my opinion on anyone and in return I expect to attend the gatherings I wish without someone else forcing an unwanted intrusion upon me.

There are lawful ways to be pro and anti DNC and GOP. Portesting at the site of said group's convention infringes upon their legal rights, like it or not. ..

Look, I know Bush is a bad guy, okay? But all in all, it was the guy I voted for twice ultimatly trying to disarm me and take away my right to protect my family while sumarily working to make sure the rights of those who would and have broken in, robbed and murdered people like us are protected. To me man, that was just messed up.

I have acknowledge Bush is bad guy but still cannot see where the freedom of speech has been stripped away inless its by unruly mobs of protestors who refuse to obey the law and imped upon those who do.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by astrocreep]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I'm a Republican. Hate to blow your hypothisis out of the water.
It's because of the hostile nature and views of the GOP I am ready to leave the party behind. It's going nowhere. Just like the Democrat party.


How soon till that actually happens? You have been bitching about how you are going to leave the Republican party for almost a year now. Just get it over with and stop calling yourself a Republican.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I'm a Republican. Hate to blow your hypothisis out of the water.
It's because of the hostile nature and views of the GOP I am ready to leave the party behind. It's going nowhere. Just like the Democrat party.


Well good luck....what reaction or anwser exactly are you waiting from me, or us, by telling me/us this?

You can be whatever you want to be, it's none of my business and i really don't care what you want to be, or what party you want to back, it is your business only.


[edit on 16-11-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I'm a Republican. Hate to blow your hypothisis out of the water.
It's because of the hostile nature and views of the GOP I am ready to leave the party behind. It's going nowhere. Just like the Democrat party.


How soon till that actually happens? You have been bitching about how you are going to leave the Republican party for almost a year now. Just get it over with and stop calling yourself a Republican.


I've never said I was leaving the party. Although, I have talked about my disenchantment with it.

Cool Hand is an excellent example of those testy folks I mentioned. He feels that if you do not cow to his line, than you must be an enemy and driven out. You need to crack your mind open and let the fresh air in, my friend. It would do you a world of good.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've never said I was leaving the party. Although, I have talked about my disenchantment with it.

You have repeatedly talked about how you are ready to leave the Republican party. It is time to put up or shut up. Either way I am sick of hearing about how little you like the party.



Cool Hand is an excellent example of those testy folks I mentioned. He feels that if you do not cow to his line, than you must be an enemy and driven out. You need to crack your mind open and let the fresh air in, my friend. It would do you a world of good.


When have I ever said that? I have had disagreements in the past where I have been proven wrong. I have never forced my opinion on anyone, ever. I have provided information and let people make up their own mind on the topic. Compare that with you, who does attack others for having opinions that are different from yours. Regardless of what evidence they show, yours is the only one that is acceptable to you.

If there is anyone here who needs to crack open their minds, it is you. Stop reading things from truthout.org or fromthewilderness.org and I guarntee it will be easy for you.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
Stop reading things from truthout.org or fromthewilderness.org and I guarntee it will be easy for you.


Okay let's see:

www.truthout.org... - This website is not based entirely on someone's opinion. The articles posted on this site come mostly from "The Washington Post," "The New York Times," "CNN" and many other popular news sites.

www.fromthewilderness.com... - I guaruntee you the writers on this site source their findings. If you would take time to read the articles from both of these sites you will sourcing. Now whether you find them credible is your opinion. Not a fact.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by mrmulder]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how angry Bush supporters are in general? I guess you get that way when you're full of self-loathing.

Yes, I have noticed. They seem to be the crowd with the least tolerance for anyone else, and the crowd that condones war first, even if the facts aren't there to support war. I'm sure you've noticed that, by their definition, the liberal party has grown to include anyone who isn't a Bush supporter.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by astrocreep
As I have cited the example of the GOVERNMENT enforced free speech zone on the STATE UNIVERSITY campus gave people a place to speak their minds while allowing students their right to study and obtain the education they paid for. It would have been pretty damn hard to hear the professor (or more likely the grad student doing his/her teaching) over the local Old Regular Baptist Preacher giving an old fashioned fire and brimstone sermon now wouldn't it? It was a state university funded in part by federal dollars so why did he not have the right to wonder the halls preaching? Did his taxes not pay for some of it?

That's only the school's policy. It had nothing to do with police enforced zones, sanctioned by the government. Schools have also been attacked, individually, for creating the zones. There has never been a law stating that schools are required to have "free speech zones." There's a huge difference when it becomes government sanctioned and enforced as a federal law, as Bush is doing.


I think we all need to realize that we are free to protes and say what we like but we aren't free to force anyone else to hear it. Thats my point.

That's pretty sad, since the entire purpose of protest is to tell the public what's wrong with the current system. Political protest is an absolute necessity in this country. It always has been. When people are upset enough by what's taking place in their government, they've historically protested to change, or at least let the rest of the people know that there is a problem. Now, one of the only tools America has to alert the government that they're not happy about things has been repressed, and sanctioned by Bush.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how angry Bush supporters are in general? I guess you get that way when you're full of self-loathing.

Yes, I have noticed. They seem to be the crowd with the least tolerance for anyone else, and the crowd that condones war first, even if the facts aren't there to support war. I'm sure you've noticed that, by their definition, the liberal party has grown to include anyone who isn't a Bush supporter.


yep. I was always of the Conservative Republican variety. Hawk on defense. Southern Baptist. I'll tell ya what, ain't nuthin' conservative about the Bush Cabal's policies. They're the most greedy, fiscally irresponsible bunch I've ever seen. They twist all the paradigms. The NEO CON NAZIS make the old school DEFENSE hawks seem like doves. (Which we're not!) And there ain't nuthin remotely Jesus-like about BushCo. They apparently don't understand the first thing about his commands. So what does that say about Bush's followers? They don't have a clue who THEY are. They mindlessly follow sock-puppet Bush - like the Germans followed Hitler - to the alluring hymn of hatred that resonates deep down in their vaccuous souls. They are enchanted by the masochistic prejudices, racism, homophobia and sexism of their elite masters.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Is actually quite the contrary...all the violence comes from liberals/greens etc...


Yea, all us Liberals REEEAAAAALLY want that war in Iraq to continue
Think about who is supporting this ilegal war and all the murder that Bush is ordering our military to do. A Republican (Bush) is responsible for the soldier that shot the wounded insurgent in the head the other day. I know you have heard about that, as its been all over the place.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've never said I was leaving the party. Although, I have talked about my disenchantment with it.

You have repeatedly talked about how you are ready to leave the Republican party. It is time to put up or shut up. Either way I am sick of hearing about how little you like the party.



Cool Hand is an excellent example of those testy folks I mentioned. He feels that if you do not cow to his line, than you must be an enemy and driven out. You need to crack your mind open and let the fresh air in, my friend. It would do you a world of good.


When have I ever said that? I have had disagreements in the past where I have been proven wrong. I have never forced my opinion on anyone, ever. I have provided information and let people make up their own mind on the topic. Compare that with you, who does attack others for having opinions that are different from yours. Regardless of what evidence they show, yours is the only one that is acceptable to you.

If there is anyone here who needs to crack open their minds, it is you. Stop reading things from truthout.org or fromthewilderness.org and I guarntee it will be easy for you.


Read this back to yourself. You sound like a very angry person.

Tell us why you're so pissed all the time.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Tell us why you're so pissed all the time.


Id be pissed all the time too if my party's major players were Nazi's in disguise.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Tell us why you're so pissed all the time.


Id be pissed all the time too if my party's major players were Nazi's in disguise.


But Bushie's got CAPITAL! They can come outta the closet now!


Self loathing must be a bitch.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Damned
[

I think we all need to realize that we are free to protest and say what we like but we aren't free to force anyone else to hear it. Thats my point.



That's pretty sad




It maybe , in your opinion, but its the law. I personally think its one of the better liberties we have. If I don't like what someone is saying on TV, I have the right to turn it off. If I want to meet with a group of like minded people freely and legally, I can do so without harrassment and so can you the only catch is, I can't take that group of like minded people and burst in on you and your group, force you to hear what we think about what you're doing.

I understand this inhibits the attention some seek for their cause but we are all citizens and none of us are entitled to more rights than other simply because it has been judged by a self-righteous few that we're wrong in our beliefs. Liberals are the first ones to defend their right to privacy and are the first hypocrits to impune that right in others when they see fit.

None of you may like these facts when you're itching to kick in the door on those whom you have judged to be wrong, but so long as you are here, you will tolerate it because the rest of us will not.

So, for all the ranting and raving, have you changed anything? Can you kick down the door of a private office and exercise your freedom of speech?

Do you still think your right to free speech is any more important than anyone elses?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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Ok.. i got about halfway through this thread before it just started to repeat itself all over again.

This thread just made me laugh. The liberals on this site are obviously brainwashed by the media. They believe everything they see on websites and the news as factual (accept when it disagrees with their pre-judged beliefs). yet when actual facts are thrown up their A** they ignore them.

*I shouldn't use the word liberal because the only true "liberal" party nowadays is the libertarian party. When I used the world liberal I was refering to the Democratic party and their mindless associates.*

I voted Bush in 2000 and in '04 but I'd fight with any libertarian (If I deemed it necesary.) To preserve my rights before I'd stand next to any Socialistic, elitistist, consperecy theorist, America hating whino.



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