Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

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He still exists and the comforter still touches and strengthens the hearts of men.

The proof that he existed is that he still exists, the message is timeless.

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undo
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

oh i'm a christian.
i look at it this way: god creates with science. he's a master scientist, so to speak.
science is just now figuring that out.

Good to know, but If you are Born Again, you wouldn't be trying to explain God,
with something as abstract as science.
When I became a Born Again, there was absolutely no science involved in
any way , shape or form.
It was His work alone with His Mighty Grace.

Mouse89


Totally agree with you, but why is there religion in "general"? I believe it's for control.

Oops, how you doin there sweety.
Yes lately religion unfortunately, has become a tool of sorts for control.

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


I love the way all the religous people in this thread have failed to answer my question about the "watchers" and the birth of Noah.
Ignorance is bliss.

SKUNK2
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

I love the way all the religous people in this thread have failed to answer my question about the "watchers" and the birth of Noah.
Ignorance is bliss.

read my "stargates are real" thread.

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


oh i'm born again. we each have our own gifts or callings or ministries.
mine is the indepth, analytical, historical and scientific evalutation of the ancient past
and how it all works together to explain god.

undo
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

oh i'm born again. we each have our own gifts or callings or ministries.
mine is the indepth, analytical, historical and scientific evalutation of the ancient past
and how it all works together to explain god.

Praise The Lord. Good luk with your endeavors.
When you reach a dead end, which you undoubtedly will,
you will realize that,
God surpasses all science and understanding.

Angelic Resurrection

undo
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

oh i'm born again. we each have our own gifts or callings or ministries.
mine is the indepth, analytical, historical and scientific evalutation of the ancient past
and how it all works together to explain god.

Praise The Lord. Good luk with your endeavors.
When you reach a dead end, which you undoubtedly will,
you will realize that,
God surpasses all science and understanding.

it's not supposed to be that way, forever.

reply to post by budski


Well considering the host website is called "PRWeb" (public relations web), I'm guessing it's publicity related. I was poking around on the subject and what I found was rather remarkable was that the author does not proclaim that there is outright evidence but instead draws parallels between stories as evidence that Jesus was invented. This quote from the PRWeb article stuck out like a sore thumb to me:

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played."

So, out of the very large number of three lettered researchers and historians who have looked at these documents and the subject of Jesus, both to prove or disprove his existence, every single one of them was sleeping at the wheel and only Atwill caught it. Right... Pretty arrogant but it sure comes off as an appeal--if you are especially alert and like an educated ruling class Roman, you can see it, too, but if you can't, well, you're just a snoozing Plebian.

P.S. I'm an atheist.

God surpasses all science and understanding.

Excellent words !!

undo

Angelic Resurrection

undo
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

oh i'm born again. we each have our own gifts or callings or ministries.
mine is the indepth, analytical, historical and scientific evalutation of the ancient past
and how it all works together to explain god.

Praise The Lord. Good luk with your endeavors.
When you reach a dead end, which you undoubtedly will,
you will realize that,
God surpasses all science and understanding.

it's not supposed to be that way, forever.

The ones Jesus Saves will, in the life to come,
meet the Father and reign with Him forever and even then
not understand Him.
For God does not change, and is the same yesterday, tomorrow and forever

Christianity originated as a sect of Judaism, which gave rise to "New Jerusalem" or early Christianity, the difference with this sect than regular Judaism at the time, is they believed a messiah would be born... that would deliver them from Roman occupation and persecution, this took place before 520BCE. The Romans were ruling over the 12 tribes for centuries, before year 0 that a Jesus or "messiah" and Christ or "the anointed" was supposed to have been born... those words are like the words enlightened and Buddha are to Buddhism... they don't speak about a specific person though they can be taken to mean; the historical Buddha Siddhartha Gautama or awakened, many more Buddhas and enlightened before the one we hear about the most.

Who exactly was being called Jesus or the Christ? There's no other name known for the fellow, in the New Testament. It could be anyone if he even existed at all. We got our idea of a census from the Greeks / Romans who were very meticulous about taking and keeping a census record. The cities and places Jesus was supposed to have been and lived, have no records for a Jesus at all or a Joesph and Mary for that matter. How meticulous were they with their census? Well, even lepers are found among those counted. Even if we are to say ok... maybe it's possible they missed the census, any idea how many people the Romans crucified? Easily 1000's it was one of their favorite activities other than, slaughtering "The Anointed ones" er I mean Christians as well as, other Jews in the arena for entertainment; every single one counted for in records... no one named or called Jesus to be found at all.

Someone so notorious, you would think there would be a public record of him somewhere, but there isn't... other than the Bible (that was heavily altered by any ruling king that felt like it) for example: Does King James sound familiar?

But for belief all you need is faith no proof at all, so does it really matter if no man named Jesus the Christ ever existed? Not the faithful. People accept falsehoods all the time, and seem to be perfectly fine with it... so why bother, if they find peace and joy through Christianity or anything else let sleeping dogs lay... forcing belief is the only thing we should take issue with. Forcing businesses to be closed on Sunday or similar laws should have never been on the books though, that's what the idea of separation of church and state is all about. If religious institutions have an interest in forcing their agenda on politics, then they can pay taxes just like every other political lobby with a personal agenda.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


BigBro, instead of doing CSI Miami on the fact weather Jesus existed or not, focus the message that the Entity named Jesus Christ spread, mainly that of Love and Peace.

reply to post by victor7


There is nothing wrong with the message, the majority of messengers however have some serious problems with reality.

Angelic Resurrection

budski
reply to post by Freeborn

 

I think it's fair to say that the 10 commandments, and indeed the "teachings" of Jesus come in two categories which are interrelated.

Jesus gave the New Covenant.
The Holy Spirit is the proof, That Jesus really existed

The devil will use many tricks and many methods to steer us away from God.

For me all I need as proof is what I have seen for my self.
Personal things that have happened, that not even medical professionals have an explanation for other then "it was a miracle".

I'll tell you this..the power of faith and pray are amazing.

Those who don't want to believe in God, or choose not to, that's their choice.
Things like this, it's all too easy for them.
The ignorant ones, they wont stop and think or ask, or look, for 'proof'. They will just accept this as the truth.

We have free will to live how we want and believe what we want.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


NONSENSE.

The New Testament record is quite solid and clear on such issues.

Isaiah 53 is reasonably clear several hundred years before Christ . . . about how He would come and die etc.

Your research appears to me to be extremely flawed to the point of destructive--well beyond usefulness.

reply to post by BO XIAN


In the beginning at Isaiah 41:8 it says that the "suffering servant" is Israel not "Jesus", so no that is not a prophecy for Jesus, you took it out of context.

reply to post by arpgme


NONSENSE.

Talk about outrageously taking a verse out of context! Sheesh.

There's not a hint in the whole passage of calling Israel

The Suffering Servant or any other kind of suffering servant.

People can decide for themselves:

NEW LIVING TRANSLATION

1“Listen to me, O family of Jacob,

you who are called by the name of Israel

and born into the family of Judah.

Listen, you who take oaths in the name of the Lord

and call on the God of Israel.

You don’t keep your promises,

2even though you call yourself the holy city

and talk about depending on the God of Israel,

whose name is the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.

3Long ago I told you what was going to happen.

Then suddenly I took action,

and all my predictions came true.

4For I know how stubborn and obstinate you are.

Your necks are as unbending as iron.

Your heads are as hard as bronze.

5That is why I told you what would happen;

I told you beforehand what I was going to do.

Then you could never say, ‘My idols did it.

My wooden image and metal god commanded it to happen!’

6You have heard my predictions and seen them fulfilled,

but you refuse to admit it.

Now I will tell you new things,

secrets you have not yet heard.

7They are brand new, not things from the past.

So you cannot say, ‘We knew that all the time!’

8“Yes, I will tell you of things that are entirely new,

things you never heard of before.

For I know so well what traitors you are.

You have been rebels from birth.

9Yet for my own sake and for the honor of my name,

I will hold back my anger and not wipe you out.

10I have refined you, but not as silver is refined.

Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering.

11I will rescue you for my sake—

yes, for my own sake!

I will not let my reputation be tarnished,

and I will not share my glory with idols!

Isaiah 53 still stands as a key passage of specific prophecies about The Messiah . . . fulfilled in Jesus The Anointed ONE (not a nation, not a tribe, not a group--ONE), The Messiah.

Isaiah 53:

[emphases added]

1Who has believed our message?

To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm?

2My servant grew up in the Lord’s presence like a tender green shoot,

like a root in dry ground.

There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,

nothing to attract us to him.

3He was despised and rejected—

a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief.

We turned our backs on him and looked the other way.

He was despised, and we did not care.

4Yet it was our weaknesses [transgressions] he carried;

it was our sorrows that weighed him down.

And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,

a punishment for his own sins!

5But he was pierced for our rebellion,

crushed for our sins.

He was beaten so we could be whole.

He was whipped so we could be healed.

6All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.

We have left God’s paths to follow our own.

Yet the Lord laid on him

the sins of us all.

7He was oppressed and treated harshly,

yet he never said a word.

He was led like a lamb to the slaughter.

And as a sheep is silent before the shearers,

he did not open his mouth.

8Unjustly condemned,

he was led away.b

No one cared that he died without descendants,

that his life was cut short in midstream.c

But he was struck down

for the rebellion of my people.

9He had done no wrong

and had never deceived anyone.

But he was buried like a criminal;

he was put in a rich man’s grave.

10But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him

and cause him grief.

Yet when his life is made an offering for sin,

he will have many descendants.

He will enjoy a long life,

and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands.

11When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish,

he will be satisfied.

And because of his experience,

my righteous servant will make it possible

for many to be counted righteous,

for he will bear all their sins.

12 I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier,

because he exposed himself to death.

He was counted among the rebels.

He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Footnotes:
a 53:4 Or Yet it was our sicknesses he carried; / it was our diseases.
b 53:8a Greek version reads He was humiliated and received no justice. Compare Acts 8:33.
c 53:8b Or As for his contemporaries, / who cared that his life was cut short in midstream? Greek version reads Who can speak of his descendants? / For his life was taken from the earth. Compare Acts 8:33.



Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright ©1996, 2004, 2007.
[This sized portion] Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188.
All Rights Reserved.

The old Rabbi having had his eyes opened by a direct visitation by The Lord, HIS MESSIAH was sharp enough to realize what Isaiah was referring to all that time.


I forget the name of the book by the MD examining the Crucifixion. He documents how literally true the verses above became.

The argument that Christ arranged, hoaxed to fit Isaiah 53 is also irrational and patently absurd on the face of it.

I have a simple question ...

If the curtain of the temple was torn, the earth shook, and people were resurrected & appeared to others, why is there not a contemporary record of the event in the historical record?

All of the biblical texts have their origins around 70 A.C.E or later (even though a case could be made for around 50 A.C.E. at the earliest due to the book of Acts).

All of the external sources were written by people who were born after Jesus death.

And all of the accounts were - at best - second hand information.


Matthew 27:50-53 New International Version (NIV) 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[a] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

reply to post by DMFL1133


The NT was written by first person participant observers--within the lifetimes of those in the culture witnessing the events. That's essentially, more or less, documentable.

OTHER cultural forces had a

HUGE VESTED INTEREST in ignoring the burgeoning new Christianity.

The Romans certainly didn't want such competition for the hearts, minds, allegiances of the populace. They were not about to affirm it or give it 'air time.'

The Jews were DEFINITELY hostile and not about to give it 'air time,' credence, written affirmation.

The other minor groups were in competition for converts and did well to tend to their own knitting.

Besides, God seems to have managed to KEEP THINGS more or less on a razor thin edge between PROVEN AND FAITH REQUIRED. I think He did that deliberately.

Because: "Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin."

He REQUIRES faith to please him. It has to do with Trust.

Daddy requires His kids to TRUST HIM--by a good measure of faith.

Certainly there's a solid foundation for the faith.

Yet, in the final analysis . . . there's that razor thin line between absolute proof and faith-required.

There's plenty of cultural affirmation of the NT record. Josh McDowell and others have documented it many times over.

But the kind of 'grab em by the throat and force them through a peer reviewed journal kind of proof' . . . . except in archeology . . . tends to be lacking to the degree that super rationalists in love with their own intellects like to !DEMAND!