If Pres. Obama acted like the Tea Party…

AlienScience
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

The politicians who "passed" this bill DID NOT READ IT. Please explain how that is representing the people?

That's cute that you parrot Fox News talking points.

And you have proof for this? Can I predict what you are going to reply with? Might it be Pelosi's quote that is almost always misquoted?

Liberals... always trying to make general assumptions about anyone who doesn't agree with them. I don't subscribe to cable TV. Guess again. As for members of Congress not reading the bill:

Steny Hoyer, the No. 2 Democrat in the U.S House of Representatives, provided a valuable window on the mindset of the chamber's leadership Tuesday when he all but admitted that few if any members of Congress would read the healthcare reform bill before voting for it.

"If every member pledged to not vote for it if they hadn't read it in its entirety, I think we would have very few votes," Hoyer told CNSNews at his regular weekly news conference.

www.usnews.com...

AlienScience

It is a well known fact that Democrat voters are much more educated than Republican voters.

Be careful with your accusations...you may just be incriminating yourself.

lol.

90% of college professors are registered Democrat.

You don't think 18 year old students attending "higher education" aren't influenced by their professors to vote as they do?

We are programmed from 1st grade to accept what is taught as fact, so much so we are tested on our ability to agree with what is presented and scored accordingly. Do you think that has any baring on political influence?

All you are saying is that students attending universities at the most impressionable phase of human developement believe what their professors tell them is right; just as they were programed to do since they were 6.

I am neither right or left, no horse in this race. In truth, Republicans desire freedom at the expense of equality; and Democrates desire equality at the expense of freedom... that is THE ONLY DIFFERENCE!

Both Freedom and Equality are important and have a place in society; how far right or left wing ones personal political location is; is based solely on how much of one idea you are willing to destroy in order to achieve dominance in your idea.

But do not be so naive as to assume data = fact, or that the more education one receives from universities = a smarter, more intellegent person, often times it results in intellectual pride and indoctrination (either you are "smart" and vote like us "smart" people, or you are a dumb republican like those "uneducated" poeple not like "us" etc.).

God Bless,

God Bless,

MystikMushroom
Wait, so let me get this straight...

These 40 or so "Tea Party" people basically get the government to shut down, then they turn right around and claim that Obama and the Democrats are to blame.

WTF?

This is like holding a child hostage and claiming the police are making you do it and it's their fault.

edit on 8-10-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)

Thank you, I was beginning to think everyone has gone insane. I am an independent and I believe more than ever that we need a strong third party to even things out and actually make the other two work together.

These republicans putting our whole country in jeopardy. Of course the president is not going to negotiate over health care. What is wrong with these wackos. Seriously this ridiculous, we need to start recall action on all of them. Anyone know how many signatures are needed and how the petition needs to read. I think it is time to start recalls on all these politicians lol.

The Bot

reply to post by Indigo5


Its a good thing people did not think the way you do when slavery was law.

Just because something becomes a law before anyone reads it and you realize it is not working the way it was intended you don't destroy a country because its the only thing Obama has done in 5+ years.

Pejeu

camaro68ssI think its all crazy. I’m now forced by law to buy goods and services. I don’t even think Hitler went that far. And now we are debating on if we should increase our credit card limit so we can pay off the other credit cards.

We are in trouble folks. start getting ready for winter, its going to be a cold one.

Oh really?

Aren't you already also forced to buy car insurance? Isn't car insurance mandatory?

And isn't it mandatory to pass an emissions and technical inspection every couple of years?

Oh, I get it. That doesn't count.

You people really are out of this world, aren't you?

Why are you defending the ACA?

You are a self proclaimed socialist and instead of demanding single payer health care, you seem to be comparing obamacare to necessary emissions standards.

It makes me think that you are just trying to cause unrest and spread discontent rather than believe in this obvious crony corporate handout. I really don't mind having legitimate knock down drag out arguments with ideologues but, you are not representing your position consistently, please explain.

Pejeu

Oh really?

Aren't you already also forced to buy car insurance? Isn't car insurance mandatory?

And isn't it mandatory to pass an emissions and technical inspection every couple of years?

Oh, I get it. That doesn't count.

You people really are out of this world, aren't you?

Driving a car is a "privledge" not a "right". You do not HAVE to own or drive a car (buses/subway/carpool etc.) to live life.

Living life is a "right" not a "privledge" THAT is as BIG a difference as you can possibly imagine!

Forcing you to buy a private service required to "live"/work/make a living is unconstitutional.


God Bless,

reply to post by dlbott


You might ask someone from Colorado....I believe they recalled a couple Democrats here a while ago, no doubt we could stand to get rid of a few more .................Democrats that is.

camaro68ss
I think its all crazy. I’m now forced by law to buy goods and services. I don’t even think Hitler went that far. And now we are debating on if we should increase our credit card limit so we can pay off the other credit cards.

We are in trouble folks. start getting ready for winter, its going to be a cold one.

Have you ever driven on a public road? Ever go to public school? Ever had to call the cops? Ever go to a park?

These are just a few of the services you are "forced" to pay for. Why draw the line at healthcare?

If Pres. Obama acted like the Tea Party…


We would have a balanced budget and little or no national debt.

We would not binge spend.

We would not have a debt ceiling problem to begin with.

Spending and budgets would be based on revenues, not *projected* treasury securities selling and banker cream dreams.

We would have $1.35 gasoline.

We would have full time jobs and unemployment under 4%.

We would have little or no corruption and graft.

We would have *increased* spending for jails to house the financial and political criminals

...and on and on and on.

reply to post by camaro68ss


You are correct the Supreme Court, if it was doing its job should have struck down the law as un-Constitutional. Unfortunately the Supreme Court no longer is on the side of the people. They are bought and paid for just like the rest of the parasites in Washington DC.

WORSE the Supreme Court has taken away the citizens court of last resort - literally.

Jury trials in the USA are defined by the 6th and 11th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article 3 Section 2. These give US citizens the right to a trial. But the PTB do not want citizens to have the right to JUDGE the laws after they are passed. The right of jury nullification has become one of the legal system's best kept secrets.

Not satisfied with keeping citizens ignorant the Supreme Court has had the GALL to actually remove our right of trial!

“Anyone accused of a crime in this country is entitled to a jury trial.”

The Constitution may say so but, in fact, this is simply not the case — and becoming less so as politicians fiddle with legal definitions and sentencing standards in order specifically to reduce the number of persons entitled to a trial….

….As Thomas Jefferson put it to Tom Paine in a 1789 letter, “I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.” …. prorev.com...

Here is how the PTB got around the US Constitution.

The Seventh Amendment, passed by the First Congress without debate, cured the omission by declaring that the right to a jury trial shall be preserved in common-law cases… The Supreme Court has, however, arrived at a more limited interpretation. It applies the amendment’s guarantee to the kinds of cases that “existed under the English common law when the amendment was adopted,” …

The right to trial by jury is not constitutionally guaranteed in certain classes of civil cases that are concededly “suits at common law,” particularly when “public” or governmental rights are at issue and if one cannot find eighteenth-century precedent for jury participation in those cases. Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Commission (1977). Thus, Congress can lodge personal and property claims against the United States in non-Article III courts with no jury component. In addition, where practice as it existed in 1791 “provides no clear answer,” the rule is that “

This post was part of a special Halloween Homage to Orson Wells.
Jumping out from behind the server and shouting BOO!

nly those incidents which are regarded as fundamental, as inherent in and of the essence of the system of trial by jury, are placed beyond the reach of the legislature.” Markman v. Westview Instruments (1996). In those situations, too, the Seventh Amendment does not restrain congressional choice.

In contrast to the near-universal support for the civil jury trial in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, modern jurists consider civil jury trial neither “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty,” Palko v. State of Connecticut (1937), nor "fundamental to the American scheme of justice," Duncan v. Louisiana (1968).
www.heritage.org...#!/amendments/7/essays/159/right-to-jury-in-civil-cases

DISGUSTING!

reply to post by jjkenobi


How the heck did that insert get in there?

Weirder than snake shoes. Has ATS been hacked?

Cuervo

Have you ever driven on a public road? Ever go to public school? Ever had to call the cops? Ever go to a park?

These are just a few of the services you are "forced" to pay for. Why draw the line at healthcare?

Public services.

Not PRIVATE services.

That is where the line was and should be drawn.

If Obamacare was free, government "paid for" service (like roads/schools/cops) through income tax revenue, you would have a legit point. But it is NOT that, it is forced purchase of private services to live life.

Both parties are responsible; all Americans will "pay" for it.

God Bless,

xuenchen
If Pres. Obama acted like the Tea Party…


We would have a balanced budget and little or no national debt.

We would not binge spend.

We would not have a debt ceiling problem to begin with.

Spending and budgets would be based on revenues, not *projected* treasury securities selling and banker cream dreams.

We would have $1.35 gasoline.

We would have full time jobs and unemployment under 4%.

We would have little or no corruption and graft.

We would have *increased* spending for jails to house the financial and political criminals

...and on and on and on.

Well said xuenchen, thanks for bringing it all back on topic!

Yes. You are being held hostage.

The demands?

Freedom
Self-determination.
Individuality.
Personal responsibility.

I await your response.

beezzer
Yes. You are being held hostage.

The demands?

Freedom
Self-determination.
Individuality.
Personal responsibility.

I await your response.

The response?

We are neoconfederate,anarchist,terrorist's, and every other demagogic label, who has been targeted by the NSA, and the IRS, and every other alphabet left wing propaganda machine, and we have been made out to be the 'enemy of the state'.

We should just roll over for the wheels of 'social justice' that lacks either.

beezzer
Yes. You are being held hostage.

You mean both of us? Right..plus every family in this country that can't survive a second recession/depression that would be more severe than the last?

beezzer
The demands?

Freedom
Self-determination.
Individuality.
Personal responsibility.

I await your response.

For effs sake Beez...you are better than Bachman-Speak.

The demands are for a system that "cleanses" the poor from the population...do not feed them, do not care for them when they are sick, do not educate them....

The new Pope is visibly to the left of the GOP...what does that tell you?

So the demand is to Deny people healthcare or you will cheer the TP Extremists as the economy collapses?

Well..we will all suffer horribly, but it will also be severe enough where it will be decades before anyone lets the GOP near the halls of power again.

There is no "out" for the President. If he gives in to ransom demands he changes the nature of our democracy for every President and Congress that follows.

Over 80% of Americans polled say they disagree with the GOPs hostage strategy...plus CEOs, Wall Street, Chamber of Commerce?

Other polls are creeping out that the impossible is now possible...the GOP losing in a "generic ballot" for the House in November.

CBS ran a poll just prior to shut-down showing Tea Party support at it's lowest in history...and that was pre-shut-down...which 80+% of Americans oppose.

Whatever the outcome, the GOP are committing suicide...it looks to me like a continuation of the reality disconnect of the 2012 election where the right wing denied every poll except the most jury-rigged, online, partisan ones that told them what they wanted to hear.

The default is going to cripple this country..the threat is already costing jobs and growth...just horrific what the TP is doing to this country.

greencmp
Why are you defending the ACA?

You are a self proclaimed socialist and instead of demanding single payer health care, you seem to be comparing obamacare to necessary emissions standards.

It makes me think that you are just trying to cause unrest and spread discontent rather than believe in this obvious crony corporate handout. I really don't mind having legitimate knock down drag out arguments with ideologues but, you are not representing your position consistently, please explain.

You got your # ACA bill cause you and your elected representatives fought tooth and nail for it and against the Single Payer or Government Insurance Alternative/Option.

So please refrain yourself.

Of course I would have suggested and gone with the single (government) payer option.

But you couldn't stand that. You couldn't even entertain serious debate about it.

And, because of your electoral choices, neither would your chosen reps.

So you got this #, right wing deal instead, thanks to your republican representatives and DINOs and the weak sauce dems always giving in to the right wing blowhards, making concession left and right.

Now you complain again, about the dems, while your republican representatives bring down the government and threaten to send your country's credit rating down a notch, AGAIN?

So even though this ACA bill is a # deal, it is because of you people. You, on the right.

And even as #ty as it is, I understand it is a significant improvement on the current situation.

And it's only as #ty as it is because of you people and your R reps.

So don't blame it on me that you are where you're at.

supermouse

Indigo5

What if in that context, the President refused to sign and threatened to VETO any Debt Ceiling raise that did not include a provision for Single Payer, Government Funded Healthcare??

Then the government would have to spend only what they raise in taxes and huge burden would be lifted from our children and grandchildren.

It's hard to see a downside. Welfare queens,might have to buy their own smartphones?

All you people talking and worrying about the debt have exactly 0 (ZERO) clue how the world really works.

Specifically the monetary-banking-financial system and the so-called economy riding atop it.


Reading such naive, infantile opinions it is sorely and painfully obvious you have no clue how money gets issued and by whom, to whom in the economy.

Or how the rich grow rich and richer and richer.

Or why your jobs are going across the border and your real income is always dwindling.

Etc.

You see, the money you work for the banks and the rich people behind them, they...

just conjure it up out of thin air.

It's not the government.

No, no.

It is your private, for profit banking system.

But you have no clue of this.

Because you talk about balancing the budget and some such childish nonsense.

Goebbels himself would be proud of the number they did on you.

xuenchen
If Pres. Obama acted like the Tea Party…


We would have a balanced budget and little or no national debt.

We would not binge spend.

We would not have a debt ceiling problem to begin with.

Spending and budgets would be based on revenues, not *projected* treasury securities selling and banker cream dreams.

We would have $1.35 gasoline.

We would have full time jobs and unemployment under 4%.

We would have little or no corruption and graft.

We would have *increased* spending for jails to house the financial and political criminals

...and on and on and on.

Now that's funny, and erroneous. Extremism both left and right are tearing this country apart yet you cling to the idea that the tea party types have any of the answers, they do not. I throw both parties under the bus, especially any from the extreme left or right; there needs to be room in the country for moderates. You know, they existed once upon a time. At the very least we need people that can at least admit that there is a possibility that their ideas or beliefs may be flawed. People that can work together towards a greater goal instead of arguing about their own personal political dogma.

The Democratic Party and the Republican party are overtly raping America. There's nothing veiled here, no need for a shadow government, they are doing this quite literally and openly, yet somehow you think that the extreme of either line of thinking will help? Really? That is truly deluded thinking.

Our representatives argue, we suffer, they convince people like yourself that the other party is always to blame, you listen. MSNBC and Fox News spew the most ridiculous garbage, and people eat it up. Just to spew the same idiotic talking points at each other and continue to be distracted by unnecessary verbal aggression while both parties destroy all we hold dear and line their pocketbooks simultaneously.

Everyone in our government currently is to blame, every single stinking last one of them. Some are certainly more culpable than others, and this president doesn't have what it takes to lead our country, but all of them need to be removed from office next election. They're all scum, and I've had enough.

reply to post by neo96


You know your party has jumped the shark when those you claim to be protecting think you are horrible for the country..

U.S. Chamber of Commerce to oppose Tea Party in GOP Primaries
www.abovetopsecret.com...

ElohimJD

Pejeu

Oh really?

Aren't you already also forced to buy car insurance? Isn't car insurance mandatory?

And isn't it mandatory to pass an emissions and technical inspection every couple of years?

Oh, I get it. That doesn't count.

You people really are out of this world, aren't you?

Driving a car is a "privledge" not a "right". You do not HAVE to own or drive a car (buses/subway/carpool etc.) to live life.

Living life is a "right" not a "privledge" THAT is as BIG a difference as you can possibly imagine!

Forcing you to buy a private service required to "live"/work/make a living is unconstitutional.


God Bless,

I was responding to the dude's assertion that only Hitler coerced you into buying products or services.

But by your logic why should Emergency Care be provided for you at no cost prior to services rendered?

I think all you right wingers should tattoo "Do Not Resuscitate" on your foreheads.

You know, to live your principles and what not.

GOP = Grand Obtuse Party.

ElohimJD
90% of college professors are registered Democrat.

That's only because they don't allow stupid crazy people to teach.

What would they teach anyway?

The "How to be stupid and crazy in 10 easy steps" course?