Benefits for England if Scotland votes for independence - list yours here ;)

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posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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I'm tiring of hearing about this referendum already and there's still a year to go.
If the Scots vote to leave the UK then good luck to them, but with nothing to indicate that it would cause any particular hardship for us in England I began to consider the actual benefits for an England being free of the needs of Scotland.

Lets avoid the pointless debate of 'should they stay or should they go' because only the Scots are deciding this - England, Wales and N.Ireland have no upcoming vote to decide if we actually want the Scots in any case - lets instead celebrate the bright future we could have without them.
Here's a few of my own, as per being a rant, I may think of more but please do add your own here if you think of any...

Benefits for England if Scotland votes for independence

1: It should lead to an end of whinging Scots bleating about everything wrong in their country being the fault of England - this would include their higher than Europe average of alcoholics and domestic abuse crimes.

2: No longer will we have to listen or see rubbish football results in the media from a league where 10 blokes and a dog is an average crowd attendance - Oops forgot Celtic who will win it every year until Rangers get back up.

3: More money in the pot for English taxpayers who will no longer have a distribution of £10,212 allocated per year per Scottish taxpayer while the English get £8,588 per person - Of course we still have to carry Wales and N.Ireland but they aren't seeking a referendum so status quo can carry on as things develop.

4: The racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live.

5: We could switch to the often proposed Winter Daylight Saving Time without having any concern to the 'official' time in Scotland and/or effects of doing so.


changing the clocks would provide 40% more business time overlap with Europe for businesses


6: Scottish MP's could no longer sabotage voting in Parliament on issues solely affecting England - For example, the vote forcing fees on English students while Scottish students were unaffected.

As someone living in England I am of course excluded from the referendum decision in Scotland, as such, I shall concentrate on looking at any plus points for us if they actually decide to do one from the UK




posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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For the record rather a lot of we Scots are actually rather fond of you lot south of the border, and don't really have anything against you at all.

... except for the Tories of course. We may never forgive you for them.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


I am currently against the Yes vote, i am scottish, i am proud of being both scottish and British...

i actually cannot be bothered getting into a full blown argument....

financially there would eb short fall for england if Scoltand and England split because......

the military hardware in scotland would need to be bought out from scotland, as would any other infrastructure bought from a centralised UK budget paid for via tax, this would me the cost would likely get looked at as a per head ownership, the percentage of the scottish ownership of all the product would be the combined amount of British population minus england, wales and ireland, the share left over would need to be purchased from the scottish through taxed budget,

there would then be the infrastructure costs to rehouse project such as trident, and any other military bases which were to be moved to england, this will incur another cost....

a yearly rate of about 6 billion is brought into the uk via north sea oil (from 2010 statistics) i appreaciate this figure can change but it is again still a financial burden which would need to be sunbsidised in some way.


so although all this money is going to scotland, there would be huge upheavel both re-housing british assets and staff which i dont think has been taken into account by your post...


i see you are generalising about scottish people too.... i have no doubt you must live in that area of the UK that has no stereotypes....

Im Glad to see people on both side of the fence being uninformed and driving a wedge between the two countires, it allows me to have distain for the populace of the UK rather than my own countrymen on this matter



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 12:23 PM
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GonzoSinister
i see you are generalising about scottish people too.... i have no doubt you must live in that area of the UK that has no stereotypes....

Haha nope, no-where in the OP do I indicate my examples as representative of the Scottish nation.
As far as generalisations go, I live in a part of England associated with straw hatted men with rosy cheeks leaning against a 5 bar farm gate, drinking scrumpy while chewing a hay stalk.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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I am so disappointed by this thread, its really just a Englishman bashing the Scotsmen, seeing as i see us all as Brits i dont really care either way but my God the Scot in me is fuming reading this even though I am very much anti-independence

Its racist

You can say its not OP, but it is.

You are not really focusing on the benefits that a independent Scotland would have for what would be left of the UK but rather just making lots of generalized comments about us Scots that are, yes, racist.



t should lead to an end of whinging Scots bleating about everything wrong in their country being the fault of England - this would include their higher than Europe average of alcoholics and domestic abuse crimes.


You know i have honestly never heard a single of my fellow countrymen say that its England's fault that we have higher than average number of alcoholics or really anything else. Most of the rivalry i have seen is over sport nothing else, there are a few who are still holding a grudge over some stuff you done to us back in the 15 and 1600's but thats about it.




No longer will we have to listen or see rubbish football results in the media from a league where 10 blokes and a dog is an average crowd attendance - Oops forgot Celtic who will win it every year until Rangers get back up.


And we won't have to hear you lot go on about 1967 every world cup and Andy Murry and Christ Hoy, yeah they are "scottish" so we will keep them if we get independence (i hope we dont though). Like I said above most of it comes down to sports rivalry and not anything else.




More money in the pot for English taxpayers who will no longer have a distribution of £10,212 allocated per year per Scottish taxpayer while the English get £8,588 per person - Of course we still have to carry Wales and N.Ireland but they aren't seeking a referendum so status quo can carry on as things develop.


Here you actually make a good point, just a shame you cant seem to do it with out bashing the Welsh and the Irish.



he racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live.


the "Racist Scots", you mean the same ones who you English have been fighting along side and spilling blood together all in the name of the British state.

do you have any idea how disrespectful your entire post is to the contribution that Scotland have made to the British state?

its like you are totally ignorant of history and think everything "good" about the UK comes from England and everyone else is just kind of being carried by you.

very annoying and very silly of you.




We could switch to the often proposed Winter Daylight Saving Time without having any concern to the 'official' time in Scotland and/or effects of doing so.


Daylight saving times?

really?



Scottish MP's could no longer sabotage voting in Parliament on issues solely affecting England - For example, the vote forcing fees on English students while Scottish students were unaffected.


Well what you think that Scottish MP's should be removed because that is what it sounds like.

what should really happen is that England should probably have its own devolved government and that would fix the problem and make much more sense.

Also you should go to St. Andrews, lots and lots of English students



As someone living in England I am of course excluded from the referendum decision in Scotland, as such, I shall concentrate on looking at any plus points for us if they actually decide to do one from the UK


There is actually quite a good reason why you are "excluded" from the referendum but let me say this.

You sir, are racist and totally ignorant of the history of our United Kingdom I cannot believe what racist tripe you have written about your fellow countrymen.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
Its racist

You can say its not OP, but it is.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Only if Scot is a race. Is it?

Just sayin'.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin

You sir, are racist and totally ignorant of the history of our United Kingdom I cannot believe what racist tripe you have written about your fellow countrymen.



Ah, get the blood flowing did it fella?

No racism, just anecdotal examples of Scottish people I have actually listened to whinging about England in the time I've lived here.
My examples are based on real experiences and I did not imply that this is representative of Scottish people in general - If the Scots go it alone then it is a fact that the whinging Scots at my local pub will no longer have reason to blame England. I have said it to the faces of the fanatical Scots in my area many times, in fact, I oten say if it's so bad here then leave and go back to beloved Scotland.

As far as racist allegations about the Welsh for example, I was born and raised in Wales but have paid taxes in England for more years than I lived in Wales. Your racist slur is silly because I am referring to allocation of funds on a UK wide basis, and yes I do resent my taxes in England funding services to my family in Wales which are not available in England due to the Barnett formula and the fact that Welsh & Scottish MP's can influence English funding while English MP's cannot.

Your racist slur is a fail as long as I talk about real specific experiences and do not relate this to an entire nation...nice try though, but as silly as anyone being called an anti-semite when they criticise decions made by the state of Israel.
My examples of whinging Scots are from personal experience but as long as I continue to refrain from relating this to an entire nation your racism claim is a fail...although perfectly placed in the Rant forum.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 




Only if Scot is a race. Is it?


Well I am pretty sure the last time i filled out a questionnaire that asked me my ethnic origin "White Scottish" and "White English" were two different categories and I would define "Racism" as any form of discrimination based on ethnic origin then yes i would say it was racist.

Its just the same as saying "oh the polish are lazy and should all go home" that would be lazy so would be saying " The racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live"

Actually as you are Mod I have to ask why does ATS tolerate this?
edit on 8-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:48 PM
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We are all British and have stood firm together for hundreds of years, I really hope the Scots do not vote to leave the UK.
Yeah we can all have a giggle bashing each other but If push came to shove I would want the Scots on our side.
Plus I love haggis



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


No like i said before

you can say your not being racist but as a Scot i find this



The racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live.


Racist

Because you are making a disparaging remark about a group of people based on their ethnic origin.

imagine what it would look like if i shifted the words bout a little and wrote.

"The Stupid black man i often see will move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England"

Now the only difference i have made is that i have replaced the insult and the race but the effect is the same i only do it to demonstrate my point.
edit on 8-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
The racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live"

That is a specific real example related to real Scottish people whinging about England being a crap place to live.
Similarly, the Scots who I know in real life who moan about Scotlands failings being the fault of England will no longer have their silly argument, and that in itself, to me, would be a benefit of Scots voting for independence.

You can cry racism but it is a rather lame position to hold, and frankly wrong.
I have many Scottish friends and eat Haggis every year at a family table on Burns night, the difference with this family though is that they do not whinge about England so I do enjoy their company, shared values, and friendship.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by grainofsand
 


No like i said before

you can say your not being racist but as a Scot i find this



The racist Scots I often see will hopefully move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England being a crap place to live.


Racist

Because you are making a disparaging remark about a group of people based on their ethnic origin.

imagine what it would look like if i shifted the words bout a little and wrote.

"The Stupid black man i often see will move back to the motherland and we can be free of their moaning about England"

Now the only difference i have made is that i have replaced the insult and the race but the effect is the same i only do it to demonstrate my point.
edit on 8-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

Nope, fail again, no matter how much you would like to present me as racist, my examples relate specifically to Scots who I know who resent England because of their position of being Scottish.
If they were not Scots they would not be crying about alleged culpability of England for the woes of Scotland.
For that reason 'whinging Scots' is absolutely appropriate because they are Scots I know in person who complain about England being the source of Scotlands problems.
If I related this to the entire nation then yes, that could be considered racist.
I did not though, so your racist slur fails quite amusingly.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


this is what really pisses me of about the internet and ATS

If we were in a bar and i heard you saying "aye, the racist scots can all go back to the motherland"

I would probably punch you in the face and cite "racism" as my motivation

yet because you are saying it online hiding behind your PC its ok to say rubbish like that then deny you are being racist when there is no one about to actually challenge you on it. so you can say whatever the hell you like about whatever it does not matter so much how many Scottish friends you have where you were born where you pay tax or any of the rest of it.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
Racist
Because you are making a disparaging remark about a group of people based on their ethnic origin.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You answered your own question. Ethnicity and race are not the same thing. I could rag on Canadians all day long and that wouldn't make me racist. It would make me a jerk, but not a racist.

Fine line you say? No, because words are important. You can't co opt the meaning of a term for your own purposes without doing collateral damage to the original meaning.

Every Brit who dogs a Scot and has it called 'racism' belittles the term for every legitimate victim of racism. Playing the 'race card' in that scenario is like bringing a croquet mallet to an archery tournament. It just doesn't fit.

Whatever your complaint is, it isn't racism.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


OP what did you think was going to happen with this thread.

are you honestly so oblivious to the remarks you made that you did not think someone Scottish was going to turn up and call you out as a racist when you write such nasty things about his fellow country me just because they are Scottish.

this is just a attempt to get a rise out of people.

with me congratulations you succeeded

if it were not for the terms and conditions of this site, I not be expressing myself with such polite terms.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by grainofsand
 


this is what really pisses me of about the internet and ATS

If we were in a bar and i heard you saying "


aye, the racist scots can all go back to the motherland
"

I would probably punch you in the face and cite "racism" as my motivation

yet because you are saying it online hiding behind your PC its ok to say rubbish like that then deny you are being racist when there is no one about to actually challenge you on it. so you can say whatever the hell you like about whatever it does not matter so much how many Scottish friends you have where you were born where you pay tax or any of the rest of it.


Hush now, your argument fails because to quote your own words:



aye, the racist scots can all go back to the motherland


Yes, I stick with my OP, racist Scots who criticise the English are not welcome as far as I'm concerned.
Tolerant Scots such as my own friends are of course welcome.
What is racist about that? I'm actually making a point against racist behaviour and everything else is in your own flawed perception of my words. Again, fail.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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you know what threads like this make me want to shut down my account

The OP is a racist

I am done with this thread

you can give me all the BS you want about how its not racist to write such tripe about my fellow countrymen but i know what it is and i stand by it



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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I was in Glasgow a couple of weekends ago visiting my best pal (english) and we went on the razz and had to leave two separate pubs because we were English, In one of them about 8 guys turned around to my mate in the loo and told him "you better F*** off out of here you English Scumbags cos we are going to do you". We left....
Idiots both side of the boarders but I must admit I was angry that people can think like this.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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Wow I've not seen yeahright in forever



May I suggest the word 'bigot' :p



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 





Ethnicity and race are not the same thing


Actually under UK law you are racist if you discriminate against anyone based on their Ethic origin



A racial group means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins." The definition is wide and victims may come within the definition under more than one of the references. Gypsies and some travellers, refugees or asylum seekers or others from less visible minorities would be included within this definition.


UK Law

And according to the UN



the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life


So no your wrong
edit on 8-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)





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