China and Japan warn US on default

OrphanApology
So the us borrows money in a currency that it prints itself? How did these other countries not see the ramifications of such debt.

They did... and don't let anyone lie and tell you otherwise.

This is all a show.

That better have a great twist because I'm ready to fire some script writers.

lets rock and roll motha *******. Hopefully we get a nice war, to bump up war profits. Also so we can sink our fingers alittle deeper in everyones pockets.Positioning our selfs a bit further to take over the world. Never waste a good crisis

Pinky: Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!

Bassago
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Maybe the local powers are thinking this is a good time to hit the reset. It will absolutely hurt the US but it would smash the hell out of the global economies. Then the US goes turtle on everything/everyone and reissues silver or gold notes (if we have any gold.)

Just a thought but if I was a paranoid central government that believed the world was out to get me it's not a far stretch. Hit reset and outlast everyone else. Might even work.

Wouldn't *THAT* be something !!!!

Perhaps the biggest con of all time.

Maybe the real suckers will be taken down !!!

The U.S. could probably survive just fine without the financial 'help' from those other countries.

I bet every American gets a job too !!!

BardingTheBard

OrphanApology
So the us borrows money in a currency that it prints itself? How did these other countries not see the ramifications of such debt.

They did... and don't let anyone lie and tell you otherwise.

This is all a show.

That better have a great twist because I'm ready to fire some script writers.

edit on 7-10-2013 by BardingTheBard because:

Well of course it's all political speak but it's still fun to point out.

Kind of like the budget crisis that the U.S. is doing right now. Someone get these guys an Oscar.

reply to post by rangerdanger


In fact there are benefits in doing it sooner than later.

One incurs in debt because of bad policies, of spending above their capability to earn in regard to nations debt has moved from the exception to the rule of thumb to a point it makes some sense due to the huge divergence that can occur between predictions in the future but all debt incurred should be done to face immediate emergencies (non planed, foreseen emergencies should be budgeted for without recourse to credit) and any investment that done sooner will not only generate return but return that will exceed the predicted cost of the credit.

The longer one takes to get out of a credit hole (incapability to repay it in the near future) the more one is sucked into it...

reply to post by OrphanApology


As I said, I don't know the economic terms, but here are some links...

usgovinfo.about.com...

Same info but on Wiki;
en.wikipedia.org...

And some Forbes for good measure;
www.forbes.com...

Not sure how you are so cavalier about this fiction that is money.
We all know money is fake and isn't really backed by anything.
However, that doesn't stop the world from spinning and operating.

When the presented illusion in which we operate pops like the proverbial bubble, it won't be enough for the U.S. to say "Look, it was all fake anyway, why so serious?".
You and MILLIONS of other people will DIRECTLY feel the consequences.

.:ETA:.
This site sums up completely who owns U.S. debt;
finance.townhall.com...

Look at that, the majority being own by U.S. Citizens and Corporations.

reply to post by xuenchen


Another cocky American. Big surprise. You owe money deadbeat. Pay up or shut up.

reply to post by Jefferton


I owe nothing.

reply to post by xuenchen

Who are *THEY* to dictate American interests.

Who are they? Hell... We owe them money!!!!!!!! Because of everyone falling asleep and not giving a crap other then their own needs.... they now own us!!!!!! You can't keep spending and borrowing money without paying it back and certainly w/ out saving it!!

Foreign governments hold about 46 percent of all U.S. debt held by the public, more than $4.5 trillion. The largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns more about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds, according to the Treasury.

US Government Debt

Our sh*t stinks... We aren't all sugar and spice! We're greedy, selfish and definitely stupid!

reply to post by xuenchen


Sorry, but your post is extremely ignorant and egoistic.

They have the full right to have interest in what is happening and to expect US to get the problems solved.

1) They hold large amounts of US debt.
2) US market crash would also crash their markets.

Basically is US currently using somebody else´s money to make bad decisions. That somebody else is everybody who owes them, especially Japan and China whom both US owes over trillion dollars.

If I loan you money, when you are in trouble, of course I will expect you to use the money well and not do whatever comes to mind, so at the end you might not be able to give it back. At the end you are using the money that belongs to others, not your money. Loan belongs to others and the first priority should be paying back the loans and not screwing with the people who gave you the loan firsthand by crashing their economy...

No country country in the world, especially US can do whatever they want, as at the end others are also suffering because of the bad decisions in US. Imagine you are living in an apartment building. Some guy decides that he owns his apartment, so if he wants he can burn it down. Although he does not consider that it would collapse the house and also the other people owning their apartments lose theirs.Pure egoism without thinking how one´s actions affect others. Economies around the world are too interconnected and if the largest crashes, everybody does. This is not US problem alone, this is the problem concerning every advanced economy.

OrphanApology

rangerdanger
We're gonna default sometime, might as well get it over with.

You cannot default on loans made in currency that you yourself print. It is impossible. Of course hyperinflation might occur, but never will the U.S. "default".

If this happens and people across this nation and around the world go to cash U.S. Treasury notes and/or other securities they bought with money, to be told it's not worth more than paper and ink value until the Gov't funds it again ....It's going to feel extremely real to people.

I was upset enough to get told I had to wait a couple years ago on cashing a Bond out when it said I could but Uncle said I couldn't yet. Grrr.... That was only a relatively small amount too. People have life savings tied up in T-bills. It's a VERY big deal, actually.

reply to post by tracehd1


So i guess your paying?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Who are you to tell US what we can and cannot do? How much foreign aid do we hand over? How many times has other countries relied on our wealth and military to bail them out.

What do we get in return?

HATE.

I say go pound sand the USA is in trouble and we need to for ONCE look out for AMERICANS.

Then you can have a better reason to hate US.

Sovaka
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

As I said, I don't know the economic terms, but here are some links...

usgovinfo.about.com...

Same info but on Wiki;
en.wikipedia.org...

And some Forbes for good measure;
www.forbes.com...

Not sure how you are so cavalier about this fiction that is money.
We all know money is fake and isn't really backed by anything.
However, that doesn't stop the world from spinning and operating.

When the presented illusion in which we operate pops like the proverbial bubble, it won't be enough for the U.S. to say "Look, it was all fake anyway, why so serious?".
You and MILLIONS of other people will DIRECTLY feel the consequences.

.:ETA:.
This site sums up completely who owns U.S. debt;
finance.townhall.com...

Look at that, the majority being own by U.S. Citizens and Corporations.

edit on 7/10/2013 by Sovaka because: (no reason given)

Okay the argument wasn't about whether the world stops spinning, it's about whether the U.S. can default(AKA go insolvent) on it's debt. So for good measure let me put the definition of what both defaulting on debt and insolvent mean in very simple terms.

Default: 1. failure to fulfill an obligation, esp. to repay a loan or appear in a court of law.

From the first link you provided stated this as it's main point "The largest portion of U.S. debt, 68 cents for every dollar or about $10 trillion, is owned by individual investors, corporations, state and local governments and, yes, even foreign governments such as China that hold Treasury bills, notes and bonds."

All debt is in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds. AKA promises on absolutely nothing but fairy dust. The U.S. owes debt in financial vehicle that it decides the value of. It can never default. It is not possible unless the U.S. government decides that the U.S. is going to default. The choice rests solely on the shoulders of the federal reserve and U.S. lawmakers.

Also what court would insolvency proceeds happen in, if the U.S. is who decides the worth of the promises? That'd be like someone putting themselves on trial for murder.

For good measure here is the definition of insolvency:

Definition of 'Insolvency'
When an individual or organization can no longer meet its financial obligations with its lender or lenders as debts become due. Insolvency can lead to insolvency proceedings, in which legal action will be taken against the insolvent entity, and assets may be liquidated to pay off outstanding debts.

Jefferton
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Another cocky American. Big surprise. You owe money deadbeat. Pay up or shut up.

Are you jealous ?

Do you stand to get stiffed with this ?

Sour Grapes Stain the Drapes !!!

reply to post by Cabin


A part of loaning is risking default. thats why theres high interest. This is expected and it is in the spirit of capatalism. To not only loan with risk, but to collect if needed, and to abandon ship when one see's fit. I hope we default

Wrabbit2000

OrphanApology

rangerdanger
We're gonna default sometime, might as well get it over with.

You cannot default on loans made in currency that you yourself print. It is impossible. Of course hyperinflation might occur, but never will the U.S. "default".

If this happens and people across this nation and around the world go to cash U.S. Treasury notes and/or other securities they bought with money, to be told it's not worth more than paper and ink value until the Gov't funds it again ....It's going to feel extremely real to people.

I was upset enough to get told I had to wait a couple years ago on cashing a Bond out when it said I could but Uncle said I couldn't yet. Grrr.... That was only a relatively small amount too. People have life savings tied up in T-bills. It's a VERY big deal, actually.

Yep. Tbills can get sold up to amounts of 5 million. Can you imagine trying to cash out that amount and them telling you no?

Have you ever read the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island"? If you haven't check it out. It's a pretty interesting book that touches on conspiracies and the general scam that is the banking system. I recommend it, author is a pretty entertaining writer as well.

reply to post by xuenchen

ADDED; link to better source
China warns U.S. debt-default idea is "playing with fire"

just a fyi

By Emily Kaiser
SINGAPORE | Wed Jun 8, 2011 2:15pm EDT

reply to post by OrphanApology


Changing your position now?
Just before you were so adamant that the U.S. cannot default on something that it creates.
Yet you seem to be ceding the fact that the U.S. debt is indeed not created by endless printing of paper.

So which side of the fence are you on?

You do realize how much # the U.S. would be in if it didn't have foreign or local investors?
When the U.S. defaults on its debts to its investors... There will be a loss of trust.

Do you really think those same investors will pour more money into the rebooted U.S. after this?
I don't think so...
So what does that mean for the U.S?
It means less income... It means less spending... It means less for Americans in general.

xuenchen
China and Japan warn US on default


It sounds like China and Japan are getting restless and nervous about the U.S. debt problem.

Looks like they want *Their* interests to supersede *OUR* interests.

Hmmm.

Maybe it's high time *WE* place *OUR* interests in the #1 position for a change !!!!

Who are *THEY* to dictate American interests.

China and Japan ratcheted up pressure on the US to avoid an unprecedented US default on its debt as Democrats and Republicans continued their stand-off over the budget in the second week of a US government shutdown.

Two senior White House economic officials said on Monday that President Barack Obama would not back down from his refusal to negotiate with Republicans in Congress, increasing worries that the debt ceiling limit would be reached on October 17 without an agreement, raising the threat of a default. ..................

.......
Zhu Guangyao, vice-finance minister, told a media briefing that China has made clear its unease over the political impasse in Washington. In Japan, the Ministry of Finance is very worried about the potential impact on currency markets, according to a senior official. A US default could cause investors to dump the US dollar, which would sharply push up the value of the yen.

China and Japan warn US on default

ADDED; link to better source
China warns U.S. debt-default idea is "playing with fire"

edit on Oct-07-2013 by xuenchen because: added better source......

We should just nationalize the debt and say screw em. Hey they need us way more than we need them lol. Well China could attack us, no wait they have no navy lol. Guess they could nuke us Japan well they would be nothing if it were not for us so they can't really complain.

Yeah that sounds good just nationalize it and say we are starting over and if you want to do business here forgive our debt. What they gonna do say no. Ha ha......

Gotta luv it, we claim bankruptcy lol. Why not lol. We really don't need em just close the borders and get back to making stuff for ourselves. We were doing long before they got powerful. And the Japanese, well everything there should be named MacArthur this and that. If of for him and us they would have nothing.

I think we should just say screw em. What yall say lol...

OK so we can't do that lol but damn it would usher in the end of the world lol...

The Bot