Are Diesel Exhaust Fumes to Blame for Honeybee Colony Collapse?

Grimpachi
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

If you are looking for correlation try the second paragraph of the OP.

worker bees fail to return to the hive after their pollen-collecting trips nearby

Again, has nothing to do with the parasites killing the bees.

Also, most farms etc. that rely on bees are not located in dense urban areas that would have that level of diesel fumes.

reply to post by OrphanApology

Again, has nothing to do with the parasites killing the bees.

I agree that isn't what the article is about.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Again, has nothing to do with the parasites killing the bees.

I agree that isn't what the article is about.

The article is blaming diesel fumes to the bee die off, which is impossible if you use logic in understanding where most of the colony die offs have occurred...I'll give you a hint, they aren't happening in downtown Shanghai.

The cause has been found to be parasites. The parasites are taking over bees that are subjected to a combination of fungicides and pesticides(substances that will be very inconvenient for industry to stop using around the little guys).

It is not from diesel. It is not from cell phones. It is not from makeup products.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

But bees don't navigate by scent. Unlike other insects a large part of bee navigation is by sight.

Bees find food the same way other animals find food -- through sensory input and an understanding of the features of their environments. Bees have an acute sense of smell, and they can remember and recognize patterns, such as the patterns of colors that are likely to be near good food. They can also recognize symmetry, a trait that scientists typically associate with more intelligent life forms. All of these abilities help bees find and recognize flowers, which produce the pollen they use for protein and the nectar they use for energy.

A solitary bee's life and the life of her young depend on her ability to find food, gather it and return it to the nest. For a scouting social bee, her colony's survival depends on the same things, as well as her ability to tell her hive mates how to find the food. Some social bees do this by marking a trail with aromatic flower oils or by guiding their hive mates part of the way. Honeybees tell their sisters how to find food, water, resin and new nest sites using one of the most-studied animal languages -- dancing.
How stuff works

It seems smell is a very important part of it.

reply to post by OrphanApology


I just love it when someone thinks they know it all. You should start a thread and publish a paper with conclusive proof. Until then the international community will keep searching for answers.

reply to post by OrphanApology


Err... Just a note here with such certainty of cause?

It's my understanding that no single cause is known and documented to BE a factor in every scene this is happening. Hence...the years spent hunting a cause and finding what may well be more than one at this stage.

If it were that easy, even Monsanto couldn't hide how obvious the cause and effect would be to a home science experiment, let alone anyone (Like Greenpeace or Sierra Club) with big time resources equal to the EPA for lab ability. They sure wouldn't hold back what they found..if a certain single cause was located, IMO.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Scent plays a role, but not a major one.

When a bee finds a field, she returns to the hive and "dances" for the other bees. She'll even let them taste the pollen she brought back. That dance tells them exactly where the field is. It tells them the direction to fly, the distance from the hive, even the color of the flowers (bees on some areas have found certain colors of flowers make better honey than others). It doesn't give them a scent to follow.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Every report I've seen says a combination of parasite (that was specific), and pesticide (that was non specific). It destroys their ability to navigate home, almost like bee alzhiemers. Interestingly France banned the pesticide RoundUp, and didn't see the cases of CCD that others have.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Err... Just a note here with such certainty of cause?

It's my understanding that no single cause is known and documented to BE a factor in every scene this is happening. Hence...the years spent hunting a cause and finding what may well be more than one at this stage.

If it were that easy, even Monsanto couldn't hide how obvious the cause and effect would be to a home science experiment, let alone anyone (Like Greenpeace or Sierra Club) with big time resources equal to the EPA for lab ability. They sure wouldn't hold back what they found..if a certain single cause was located, IMO.

At this point industry is fighting bans tooth and nail. There are studies showing the correlation and it is a brew of pesticides and fung.

ecowatch.com...

Above has links to the various studies. But yeah, everything else coming out at this point is a deliberate attempt to sway notice away from the cause. The cause being as one article put it a "witch's brew" of pesticides and fungicides. The gut parasite is what is killing bees and the susceptibility of getting that parasite has now been directly linked to chemicals.

reply to post by Grimpachi


you should have posted this paragraph from your source too.

When a honeybee scout finds food, she uses two known tools to understand where it is. One is her solar compass, which lets her remember where things are in relation to the sun. The bee's ability to see polarized light lets her determine where the sun is regardless of whether it is obscured by clouds. The other tool is her internal clock, which lets her keep track of how far she has flown. Her internal clock also lets her determine of how much the sun moves during her journey. In other words, when she returns to the hive, she can tell her sisters exactly where the food is in relation to the current position of the sun, not the position of the sun when she found the food. As a bee matures, she also learns about how the sun's path across the sky changes during different seasons of the year and at different latitudes if her hive is moved. She can incorporate these changes into her measurements.

so what i read here it is more like old school navigation than smell. the smell is just to show others hey looky at what i found. that's why she does her happy dance in the hive.

reply to post by OrphanApology


Well, I'll be open and fair about this, as someone who has written some of those threads you're talking about on this site. I've also covered some of the court cases currently pending or recently settled over this in both Europe and the United States. So, it's with that perspective I'll say your confidence and certainty is something I've not seen shared in either court presentation or technical papers.

I've not seen everything, lol... Of course not.. So I'm wide open to seeing something solid for a study or linkage (Media...not so much) that supports your declarations of fact, vs. the same educated guessing the rest of us are doing on these matters? (Some of us, very educated guessing ...but in the end? It's still guessing unless it's what we do for a living, IMO)

@Zaphod

Ditto on cause I've seen and what the European decisions recently seemed to show... Still.. certain is a really really big word, huh? (We're 90% sure? )

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


That's exactly what it is. Bees have the most sophisticated navigation and communication system I've ever heard of in the animal world. I studied them a lot when I was younger and they're fascinating creatures.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Well, I'll be open and fair about this, as someone who has written some of those threads you're talking about on this site. I've also covered some of the court cases currently pending or recently settled over this in both Europe and the United States. So, it's with that perspective I'll say your confidence and certainty is something I've not seen shared in either court presentation or technical papers.

I've not seen everything, lol... Of course not.. So I'm wide open to seeing something solid for a study or linkage (Media...not so much) that supports your declarations of fact, vs. the same educated guessing the rest of us are doing on these matters? (Some of us, very educated guessing ...but in the end? It's still guessing unless it's what we do for a living, IMO)

@Zaphod

Ditto on cause I've seen and what the European decisions recently seemed to show... Still.. certain is a really really big word, huh? (We're 90% sure?

)

edit on 7-10-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

The reason I didn't link directly to studies is that you have to pay for the full PDF.

Here is one link that has the abstract if you want to check it out:

www.plosone.org...

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


That’s a lot to quote especially when my point is that scent plays a role. Sight and scent if you take away one then to think it wouldn’t have an effect is naive IMO.

I never said this was the magic bullet in fact I said I believe it is a culmination of things. I believe this needs to be studied further to its conclusion but in my mind I find this as plausible.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000




Actually here's a really good link too:

www.beyondpesticides.org...

Has links to all of the abstracts. Tons of research. Great website to scan over if you have time.

reply to post by OrphanApology


Well, thank you. I honestly mean that, too. That is one of the better laid out reports I've seen linked in a few threads over on this topic, from that side. I do notice the abstract uses language like "more attention" and "probable" which is science-speak for 'we're almost sure...but don't shoot us for being wrong either'. lol....

I'll tell ya what the challenge is. It's getting the courtroom certainty in a U.S. Federal Court that Europe got in it's process.

If we can get that established, I'll meet you in St Louis and we can file against Monsanto together. I'd give anything within legal means to see that business put out of business, forever. There just isn't the level of evidence to meet the legal burden. Not yet..... More studies like that are the right track to take though.

Some day....perhaps..we can talk on Monsanto (and others) in the past tense for what 'used to be'... Oh, if only.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Scent helps to find the field and specific flowers. It doesn't play any role in getting home, which is the problem. They're going out in the morning and never coming back. The hives are being found with the young, and old bees and all the prime workers gone.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Well, thank you. I honestly mean that, too. That is one of the better laid out reports I've seen linked in a few threads over on this topic, from that side. I do notice the abstract uses language like "more attention" and "probable" which is science-speak for 'we're almost sure...but don't shoot us for being wrong either'. lol....

I'll tell ya what the challenge is. It's getting the courtroom certainty in a U.S. Federal Court that Europe got in it's process.

If we can get that established, I'll meet you in St Louis and we can file against Monsanto together. I'd give anything within legal means to see that business put out of business, forever. There just isn't the level of evidence to meet the legal burden. Not yet..... More studies like that are the right track to take though.

Some day....perhaps..we can talk on Monsanto (and others) in the past tense for what 'used to be'... Oh, if only.

See and that's the problem with scientific research. Abstracts will always have "probable" etc. in them because that's how science works. There is no such thing as an abstract without those terms. Any research is left up to repeat. Upon repeat and scrutiny there may be different conclusions, that's why science is amazing.

The last site I gave you has hordes of pesticide information in regard to it's effect on bees. What there needs to be is a study in about a 100 mile radius(or whatever is determined to be the travelling distance of little bees) that has a pesticide/fungicide ban. Check to see if the little guys stop getting sick.

The problem with the government is that it is completely bought and paid for by these companies. There are no repercussions for screwing over the public. The overwhelming evidence supports the fact that these little bees are dying because of chemicals. You will see every attempt of industry and new articles to direct the public away from that evidence. Even this topic. Diesel, cell phones, makeup, aliens...you name it.

The point is the research has isolated chemicals that are directly correlated to the persistence of these parasites in bee colonies.

reply to post by OrphanApology


Little girls technically.

Zaphod58
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Little girls technically.

LOL.

True.

I usually just say "little guys"...bad habit from living in country too long and speech patterns always placing male gender on any and everything that isn't storms or dirt.

Awesome lawn mower? Guy.
Crazy hurricane? Female.