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Whats going to happen if the shutdown isnt reversed? (military, VA disability, SS pay)

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posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC


I've been working straight 7 days a week for the last two and that will extend up till the end of the month because of the available overtime at the moment. Why you ask? My pops is SS dependant.

Meanwhile at my pops house:

He tells me to stop worrying and that the govt will fix themselves etc...

The irony is rich..



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 08:14 AM
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Snarl

beezzer

Cancerwarrior

beezzer
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


reply to post by Cancerwarrior
 


I almost hope that they do withold all checks.
(now hear me out before the beatings commence)

If they do "hold out" and continue their stupid little theatre, then the only recourse for most would have to be to rely on a neighbor, a friend, a community.

I would pay people's bills (as much as I could afford) I would help feed those that went hungry. As would millions of others.

We would finally show DC that we don't effing NEED THEM!


I have to disagree. The "Screw you I got mine" mentality is very pervasive in this day and age. I believe you when you say you want to help, but most people are busy keeping their own heads above water and taking care of their own families.

I have a mother that has been helping out with gas to go for treatments and bills when we are short some months. Thank God for her is all I can say, if anything happens to her, care to help me out with the electric bill next month? Its turning cold here finally.


Just U2U me. It's all good.


Damn, Beezzer!! I trust you more than I trust my own government. Are you volunteering as an ATS focal point for financial aid?


I have and always will help out anyoine who has ever needed it. I may get suckered from time to time, but better that then not helping out at all. People should look out for one another. Not have it mandated by the government, however.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by Cancerwarrior
 



Warning extensive sarcasm below:-


Yes same agenda different gruesome masks is all.

They want chaos , you the dumb public haven't responded yet.

They want riots in the streets.


How many bombs do they have to set off and how many shootings to they have to stage to get a reaction out of you lot. ssshhhish


Come on you have got to see their side of things , they have nearly tried everything short of the big one.

They even tried threatening you with it.


Now its the money for food and shelter that you need.


Must be very frustrating for them , with all the information they have access to and they still can't get a rise out of you.

Suggest they lay off the chem trails for a bit and the mind control , seems they have subdued you too much and now they can't get the herd to budge at all.

Arrrrrrh the hard work of a petty tyrant is a thankless occupation.

Perhaps another round of Golf might be in order or another holiday to get over the stress , ummmmm note to self :- will need to pull in a few more favours from congress to treat the Mrs to a nice island or two.

P.S. Does my bottom look big in this?

edit on 7-10-2013 by Pinkorchid because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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Having paid attention to what all is going on in the country, to include that of the government shut down, the following can be stated:
If this goes where the very checks that are the life blood that so many rely on stop, it will not be good. After all, can we expect those in the US military to continue to do their job without pay? Those in the US military are not happy with the situation and it would mean that they end up having more of a discipline problem and ultimately we may see those in the military, especially the lower grades and ranks decide to leave, then there are those on social security. How do you think the country is going to react if millions of say elderly and disabled people, are forced to suffer as the government cannot or will not keep up on its obligations.
I would say first thing we may see is where gangs, that once hated each other, now turn their attention to government, joining together for the one purpose of exploiting the situation. Stores may see an increase in crime and looting, think about it, do you honestly think that say a Walmart or a grocery store would be able to remain in business if no one is purchasing from them? And what if the population was hungry and desperate enough to break the law, then what? What would a Walmart do, if say an entire community descends on it for just the basics, food? Not a whole lot.

There is a growing discontentment in the country, a low simmering fire that the federal government keeps adding fuel to the fire time and time again in its attempts to regulate the people. If the publics confidence in the federal government fully erode, then there will be chaos and rioting, along with the starting of a civil war, where people decide it be better to take matters into their own hands and enact the worse side of their natures, rather than the peaceful means. And it will not be good, as it will end up causing years of problems all around.

But if we go by the past history of the country and government, what will happen is that it will get down to the last hour and then, like a miracle, there will be a new budget and the government will pat themselves on the back. All to show the people that they are working in their best interest.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Carreau
 

I certainly remember the 1996 shut down. It was somewhat uneventful as a political side show. The nation was booming...the economy about to go into annual surplus that would carry right into 2001. Gas was well under $1 a gallon in many places and life was damn good. We had a President, party aside, who also put the happiness of the American People up as a priority to maintain and not a problem to 'solve'.

So, the fact checks went out the last time and they SHOULD go out this time doesn't tell me for certain that they will. We now have a President who sees our pain as his gain. What more painful a move to make then messing with the money of millions?

Sure, everyone gets it back eventually. Back pay covers that, if nothing else. However, you can't tell me the 'one more insult' added to a long line of them over recent years, won't have an impact. I think the rage and outright demand for change (regime change at this rate) is a cumulative thing. As much as some in Washington like to play and pretend as though American attitudes reset with each news cycle?

The cumulative rage is building... festering.. smoldering ..and I don't mean puns to the man who self-immolated, but he's an example of it, IMO.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


At first glance I would have said all is well do not worry.. Then I found this Washington Post article: The problem is with the out right lying and "make it as painful as you can" mentality who are we going to believe?


What's more, if the shutdown lasts for more than two or three weeks, the Department of Veterans Affairs has said that it may not have enough money to pay disability claims and pension payments. That could affect some 3.6 million veterans.



Congress needs to pass a bill (or bills) to fund the government, and the White House has to sign them. They can do this at any time. Or they can sit at home and keep the government closed. Nothing requires them to do anything. It depends what sort of political pressure they're facing.


Very easy and has been tried already but.... not painful enough for the people... So no deal has been reached


The 1.4 million active-service military members, meanwhile, will get paid no matter how long the shutdown lasts. That's because the House and Senate specifically passed a bill to guarantee active-duty military pay even when the government is closed. Obama signed it into law Monday night.


search.yahoo.com...=A0oG7mndvlJSMSAAd0JXNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'B0aGNlZml0BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDI4M18x/SIG=19u49gp33/EXP=1381183325/* *http%3a//feeds.washingtonpost.com/c/34656/f/636543/s/32180ebf/sc/22/l/0L0Swashingtonpost0N0Cblogs0Cezra0Eklein0Cpost0Cabsolutely0Eeverything0Eyou0Ene ed0Eto0Eknow0Eabout0Ethe0Egovernment0Eshutdown0C20A130C10A0C0A50C7f521ad20E2de30E11e30Eb1410E298f465397160Iblog0Bhtml0Dwprss0Frss0Ibusiness/story01.ht m



edit on 7-10-2013 by 727Sky because: ....



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


I looked into this the last time the Obama admin was throwing a temper tantrum and threatening not to send out SS checks. (I am not sure about VA) but with SS checks they do not have a choice THEY WILL GO OUT. That does not mean they will not lie their heads off about it as usual

If the SS checks do not go out then we should not be agitating for a resumption of government but to have the whole darn traitorous government impeached. (The whole sleazy lot)



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 09:51 AM
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I'm in the same boat OP. I am not worried however. I told myself when I first was authorized disability pay to never count on that pay to survive for the simple fact that the government controls it and it can always be affected by political posturing as it is now. I am however extremely angry that they are using the pay of disabled veterans who have sacrificed so much for our country. Not everyone has the same resources that I do though. I always have 3-6 months worth of food in my house and I am about to refill the freezer with deer, turkeys, and ducks to get us through the winter.

It is horrible for the people who will have a severely rough time when the payments don't go through on the first of the month. It would take a long time for me and my family to feel the sting but so many would find themselves in peril over one missed payment. The House of Representatives has sent plenty of spending bills over to the senate that would alleviate this aspect of the shutdown but the democrats in the Senate refuse to even look at them. Non negotiation is not going to go well with people in this country. Especially when you make things more difficult on Veterans who have served their country and are now paying the price by being part of a political chess game. With each day that passes I am more ashamed of our elected leaders for the tyranny that they are reigning down upon us all and I am equally ashamed and disgusted that so many of my fellow countrymen stand by and let it happen.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


After Oct 17 if the debt ceiling isn't raised the the treasury can no long use the "extra-ordinary" measures it has been using since Feb, the government will only have the money that it brings in from taxes on a daily basis to spend. It will then spend all of the tax revenue on expenses until it is out of money. Priority is interest on the debt, mandatory spending, entitlement spending (SS, Medicare, Government pensions), discretionary spending (Military pay, VA disability, parks, ect.)

I feel for America, but I believe this may be necessary as there is no realistic way to turn around the debt/deficit. People have become so dependent.

--Edit -- OP I'll add that I also live on VA disability. I do work but I make very little because I am very limited in what jobs I can do. I was laid off in 2009 and again in 20012, after my first lay off I spent a great deal of time and energy getting out of debt and saving some money. But I have been where you are. In 2009 when I was laid off I was left with about 350 a month in income and a very difficult road ahead finding work in my condition.
edit on 7-10-2013 by Virole because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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edit on 7-10-2013 by palmalBlue2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


It's not the shutdown that you need to worry about, it is the debt ceiling.

All the shutdown does is limit the government to operate on essential business only, which includes so called "entitlements". The government continues to collect taxes and can continue to sell treasury bonds to increase revenue. The shutdown just means that appropriations to specific projects have expired and no new money can be appropriated to projects/agencies...so those agencies/projects need to operate with the money they currently have. As the shutdown continues, more and more employees will be furloughed as they burn through their capital and more and more services will be discontinued. But checks going on should never be cut because those don't need funds appropriated to them.

Now in the case of the debt ceiling not being raised, the government can only operate by collecting taxes...they can't sell treasury bonds to increase revenue because that adds to the debt which legally can't be exceeded due to the debt limit (ironically, the debt will raise above the debt ceiling regardless due to use not keeping up on paying down the interest and it accumulating out of control). But the governments first responsibility is to pay it's bills and pay the interest on our debt. The tax revenue is going to be eaten up by that and we won't even be able to cover all of the bills and interest with that...so that will leave zero money for benefits to be paid out.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


I sincerely hope that this shutdown does not last long. The last one, in 1995, lasted 21 days, I think so it cut it very close. Start reaching out to your utility companies now. Often, they'll have some sort of program to assist an individual when hit with hard times so it's really beneficial to start the dialogue early. I know that local church and community groups also have various charitable assistance available. In our business, we actually had churches that would help pay for gasoline for the needy to go to work. My advice is to start seeking help now and even talking to your creditors.

Defaulting on a loan or bill is not what any of these entities want, believe it or not. They'd much rather avoid collection costs and work with the debtor because, at the end of the debt, they get more money that way. A lot more.

Good luck to all of you in this plight. I really hope that this mess gets cleared up so that all of you can breathe a little easier soon.

VA: All veterans' benefits payments will be disrupted if a shutdown goes beyond 2 weeks



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Government agencies not having new money appropriated to them are not making decisions to shut down certain services based on finances alone though - rather it is a matter of what protects their interests the most. That is likely why active military are now guaranteed payment.

It appears that no matter what they do it will be a temporary fix - minus a major change. Therefore, if this continues and affects millions it will invoke that change - even if not pleasant. Otherwise, we just put ot off a bit longer.

I for one will stand up to help out if we must see it happen now to teach us another lesson about economics. Another poster in here said they would yet some dont believe this. I'm not sure why those comments are made unless they truly believe people are that selfish. It is when we see how much alike we are that it is easiest to come together. When accentuating our differences it can make people cold and removed.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 



Have to ask.....does the Economic shutdown start on the 17nth or until we 'officially' run out of money and actually start defaulting on or near Nov.1st?



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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The shutdown will not have any negative impact on checks going out. However, on October 17, if the debt ceiling is not raised, that will very much stop checks from going out. I have no doubt an agreement will be achieved prior to October 17, but they will push it too the very last minute to continue with the political grandstanding for sure.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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If its not reserved soon you will go back into reccesion.


If its not reversed by the 17th? You will go into a depression.

And that is were the USA will cease being the world super power and will become 3rd world.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


That is very true. The impact will be felt around the world. If you ever wondered how the U.S. government affects your daily life, you will find out very bluntly if there is a default.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


You make some good points so I am responding even though it wasn't a reply to me. If we do raise the dept ceiling do you really think this will help? Short term it will but that only prolongs the inevitable and makes it worse when we do have to face the music. Irresponsible spending is what got us here. I believe tax revenue is more than enough to pay for necessities - not to fund other countries perhaps but to take care of our own it is.

Raising it is a bandaid because the true issue has not been looked at. Maybe that is what's holding them up. It would be fine to do this "if" responsible budgeting were also a part of the plan. We cannot operate on the blank check mentality forever. We have being warned about this for years by economist. I know it won't be the same as the Great Depression (with stock markets), but it may very well be that bad for people if these people do not make some really wise choices at this point in time. If we must suffer a little bit now let it happen. I would rather do this than have my children to through something 10 times as bad in 5-10 years.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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palmalBlue2
reply to post by AlienScience
 



Have to ask.....does the Economic shutdown start on the 17nth or until we 'officially' run out of money and actually start defaulting on or near Nov.1st?


The actual debt ceiling was hit way back in May 2013. The Treasury has been using "extraordinary measures" in order to keep paying our bills. These include a lot of re-investments that the Treasury decides not to re-commit to...which screws us in the long run.

The "x date", or the date where the Treasure runs out of extraordinary measures is Oct. 17th. That is the drop dead date, that is the date where we run out of money to pay all of our bills. I think the last I heard we would be able to pay about 60% of our bills.

So the 17th is the date where the SHTF...there is no buffer after that.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Dianec
 




You make some good points so I am responding even though it wasn't a reply to me. If we do raise the dept ceiling do you really think this will help? Short term it will but that only prolongs the inevitable and makes it worse when we do have to face the music. Irresponsible spending is what got us here. I believe tax revenue is more than enough to pay for necessities - not to fund other countries perhaps but to take care of our own it is.


The debt ceiling doesn't prevent the debt from rising. The current debt limit is 16.7 Trillion dollars and we hit it in May 2013...our current debt is 16.9, nearly 17, Trillion dollars. So the "debt ceiling" is really a misnomer...it doesn't cap our debt. All it does is say "Once we reach this amount, you can't borrow anymore money to pay the bills you have already incurred". It doesn't matter if we pass huge budget cuts or not, the debt ceiling MUST be raised in order to pay our current bills. There is no way around it.

Republicans are not using the debt ceiling to prevent our debt from rising, they are using it as a bargaining chip. They know very well that they must raise the debt limit, if they don't then we default and game over.

And the thing is, we don't even have that much of a spending problem. Our debt to GDP ratio really isn't bad, which is why we are still considered the worlds power house...because we have a very healthy ratio. And the other thing is that we have more of a revenue issue than we do a spending issue.


If we must suffer a little bit now let it happen. I would rather do this than have my children to through something 10 times as bad in 5-10 years.


I don't think you understand, there is no "suffer a little" here...it is pay our bills or default and become a third world country overnight. Your children and perhaps their grandchildren won't see anywhere near the same quality of life as you. And all over a ideological disagreement, not an actual crisis. The national debt, at it's current ratio, is not a crisis, it is a political talking point and it is now being used as a political hostage...and it may mean the death of our economy.

This honestly is not a joke...I hate doom porn...but this is closer to doom than anything else you will find on ATS.



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