Why do we never hear about the two other Giza pyramids?

Just catching up here and reading up on the pyramids being power stations?!

To power what, exactly?

I refuse to burn my days reading a book about it.

I sincerely apologise for my ridiculous, unnecessary and obstructive post, but seriously WHAT is going on here?! eeek

To satisfy the boards t's and c's, IMO the pyramids were power symbols of our ancestors (internationally accepted, it seems) as we continue to find them across the globe.

reply to post by violet


Violet

This is true

There's more tombs that have been unearthed in The Valley Of The Kings.

.. and not a single pyramid within sight.

Will

reply to post by will2learn


...because the pyramid tombs got robbed

But we are going off top. If you want to go over all of this again bring up one of the threads on this subject or start another.

Hanslune
reply to post by will2learn

 

...because the pyramid tombs got robbed

But we are going off top. If you want to go over all of this again bring up one of the threads on this subject or start another.

Hans

I am pretty sure you've not answered those inconsistencies that Scott pulls out of the mish mash of ideas the mainstream ports as sense. That doesn't even include the presence of water. I mean what's the point discussing this with someone that goes against all of the evidence?

Will

reply to post by will2learn


Read what I wrote...you are off topic

Is it really that hard for you to start another thread?

I guess so......lol

will2learn

Hanslune
reply to post by will2learn

 

...because the pyramid tombs got robbed

But we are going off top. If you want to go over all of this again bring up one of the threads on this subject or start another.

Hans

I am pretty sure you've not answered those inconsistencies that Scott pulls out of the mish mash of ideas the mainstream ports as sense. That doesn't even include the presence of water. I mean what's the point discussing this with someone that goes against all of the evidence?

Will

Hi Will,


I think what I am pointing out here (below) is actually very relevant to this thread which asks why there is little consideration given to the other pyramids at Giza. When we consider the pyramid attribued by Egyptologists to Khafre (G2) at Giza we find evidence that completely dismantles the pyramid tomb theory.

It is not just that mainstream proponents fail to adequately respond to the numerous glaring anomalies in their argument that I present to them, they actually base their belief in the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) on imaginary evidence rather than dealing with the evidence that has actually been found in-situ within the first pyramids. They claim that the king's body was stolen from the so-called 'sarcophagus' of the pyramid. But for them to make such a claim they first have to prove that the stone box they claim to be a sarcophagus IS a sarcophagus and not actually a similar style of stone box known as a neb-ankh or an 'Osiris Bed'. These stone boxes which were not used for the burial of kings look very similar to sarcophagi although sarcophagi are generally inscribed with the deceased's name and tiltes (even Khufu's children had their sarcophagi inscribed).

Now, when we consider what was actually found in, for example, G2 (by Belzonni in 1818), an uninscribed stone box filled with earth, stones and fragments of bull bones, this points to the use of this stone box as a neb-ankh or 'Osiris Bed' and NOT a sarcophagus. But the Egyptologists simply ignore the evidence they actually found in G2, imagine instead that the king's body musta been in the stone box, got nicked and someone came by later to fill the stone box with earth and stones. They imagine all of this rather than simply accept that the earth filled stone box they found in G2 was actually an 'Osiris Bed' and was the original content of the pyramid. This evidence (neb-ankh/'Osiris Bed') proves, beyond doubt, that the stone boxes in these first pyramids were NOT sarcophagi, ergo they were NOT for burial of a king, ergo the first pyramids were NOT conceived as tombs for kings.



Byrd comments that the 'corn mummies' were from a later period. I am not exactly sure what her point is but it seems to be that simply because the first pyramids and the 'corn mummies' were from different periods of ancient Egyptian history that they are unconnected. That's simply nonsense. It's like saying a small, metal crucifix made in a factory in Sheffield last week is completely unconnected to the events of 2,000 years ago that inspired it.

Regards,

SC

IkNOwSTuff


We couldnt build the Pyramids anywhere near as large or accurate today as they did back then, that right there should tell you theres alot we dont know about the builders or what sort of tech they had.

people keep saying this but it's total nonsense. We can build far larger structures and do ! The arabs are quite good at pumping money into huge buildings. We can build things with incredible accuracy. Between the UK and France, under the channel is a 20 mile tunnel. It was drilled from both sides meeting in the middle....perfectly !

Over a hundred years ago Isambard Kingdom Brunel built a tunnel (Box Tunnel) which on the morning of his birthday the sun shines through end to end (or rather illuminates it fully due to leap year variations of the suns angle)......ooo must be aliens.....or maybe a damn good engineer with a sense of style.

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Hi Scott

The topic is

Why do we never hear about the two other Giza pyramids?

Still off topic - try starting a new thread...but we both know you won't which means..... for you a big

LOL

Suggestion since you two guys seem determined to remain off topic - here is a funidea, why don't you two agree on which is right - whether the great pyramid was built to move water, be a power plant or store seeds----have a smashing good time.

yorkshirelad

IkNOwSTuff


We couldnt build the Pyramids anywhere near as large or accurate today as they did back then, that right there should tell you theres alot we dont know about the builders or what sort of tech they had.

people keep saying this but it's total nonsense. We can build far larger structures and do ! The arabs are quite good at pumping money into huge buildings. We can build things with incredible accuracy. Between the UK and France, under the channel is a 20 mile tunnel. It was drilled from both sides meeting in the middle....perfectly !

Over a hundred years ago Isambard Kingdom Brunel built a tunnel (Box Tunnel) which on the morning of his birthday the sun shines through end to end (or rather illuminates it fully due to leap year variations of the suns angle)......ooo must be aliens.....or maybe a damn good engineer with a sense of style.

Well I agree completely but they are partially correct, we could built them far better but that is not the point of their comment, they would want modern man to build the pyramids in the same manner that the AE did, by hand, using the tools available....and that is nearly impossible in this day and age as the lost skills, techniques, craftsmanship, desire and safety concerns would not permit it - not to mention a couple billion $ to do so.

Hanslune
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

Hi Scott

The topic is

Why do we never hear about the two other Giza pyramids?

Still off topic - try starting a new thread...but we both know you won't which means..... for you a big

LOL

Suggestion since you two guys seem determined to remain off topic -

edit on 17/10/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

Hello Hans,

I know what the topic of the thread is, Hans - which is why I was discussing what was found in G2 (which, as you know, is one of the two other pyramids the Thread's author is asking about). So perfectly on-topic. And I should add that perhaps one of the reasons we never hear too much about G2 is precisely because of the damning evidence found in that pyramid that effectively dismantles the pyramid tomb theory that Egyptologists have been misdirecting us with for almost 200 years.

Hans: here is a funidea, why don't you two agree on which is right - whether the great pyramid was built to move water, be a power plant or store seeds----have a smashing good time.

You forgot to add: "to entomb a king". Certainly I think both Will and I (and I am sure many others here on ATS) are agreed that the early, giant pyramids most certainly were not conceived and built as tombs. We can't all be right but we most certainly - and I include orthodox views in this - can all be wrong.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


yawn - still off topic - as you well know.

However you and Will should have a long, evidence heavy discussion on why he thinks it was a water powered something or other and you think its a seed vault. I mean if you are going to go off topic and absolutely, positively refuse to start another thread to discuss what you constantly bring up.....
Why not?


Lurkers might ask, 'Hanslune if Scott and Will wants to talk about this so much why don't they just start a thread on it like everyone else?' What IS their problem?

Ya would kinda wonder why huh?

LOL

Hanslune
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

yawn

SC: Not exactly a convincing argument, is it?

Hans: - still off topic - as you well know.

SC: Discussing the other pyramids at Giza (i.e. NOT the GP) is very relevant to the thread - go and read the thread title again. Over and above which - I am sure the ATS moderators and not you will determine for us what is off-topic and what is not.

Hans: However you and Will should have a long, evidence heavy discussion on why he thinks it was a water powered something or other and you think its a seed vault. I mean if you are going to go off topic and absolutely, positively refuse to start another thread to discuss what you constantly bring up..... Why not?


Lurkers might ask, 'Hanslune if Scott and Will wants to talk about this so much why don't they just start a thread on it like everyone else?' What IS their problem?

Ya would kinda wonder why huh?

LOL

edit on 17/10/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

SC: Not really:

The Pyramid Recovery Vault

The Birth of Osiris

Regards,

SC

MerkabaMeditation
It puzzles me that we never hear anything about the two other Giza plateau pyramids? It's always about the Great Pyramid of Khufu and never about the Pyramid of Menkaure, the Pyramid of Khafre. These pyramids also have chambers, but very different from Khufu, why is that? Did they ever find anything inside them?

Are they explored properly, because from plans over the chambers it seems they end abruptly and for no reason.

Take a look at this plan over the Pyramid of Menkaure


, and this of The Pyramid of Menkaure.

What the...?! Those chambers just end nowhere? Why are they so different than the chambers in the Great Pyramid of Khufu? Why have I never heard anyone questioning these things and many more.

To me those pyramids look only partly explored.

-MM

edit on 5-10-2013 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

why??....the same reason you never hear about 2nd and 3rd place in a miss america contest.

Scott Creighton

SC: Not exactly a convincing argument, is it?

yawn

It is all that is need to counter what was provided. I have no intention of going off topic - you are wasting your time, an intelligent person would just put up another thread - but you won't.....

SC: Discussing the other pyramids at Giza (i.e. NOT the GP) is very relevant to the thread - go and read the thread title again. Over and above which - I am sure the ATS moderators and not you will determine for us what is off-topic and what is not.

Actually for a guy who jumps up and down saying he is 'of independent mind', etc I find that very amusing. I'm fully capable of deciding when something is off topic, I say its off topic and will not response to it in this thread = period. I have no need for a mod to do my thinking for me, as you seem to need.

SC: Not really:

Sorry really, for some odd XXX based reason you just cannot bring yourself to create a new thread - ah, we can all see that won't, come on Scott prove me wrong, start a thread in this forum - what exactly is stopping you except XXX?

It's all very funny

Hanslune

Scott Creighton

SC: Not exactly a convincing argument, is it?

yawn

It is all that is need to counter what was provided. I have no intention of going off topic - you are wasting your time, an intelligent person would just put up another thread - but you won't.....

SC: Discussing the other pyramids at Giza (i.e. NOT the GP) is very relevant to the thread - go and read the thread title again. Over and above which - I am sure the ATS moderators and not you will determine for us what is off-topic and what is not.

Actually for a guy who jumps up and down saying he is 'of independent mind', etc I find that very amusing. I'm fully capable of deciding when something is off topic, I say its off topic and will not response to it in this thread = period. I have no need for a mod to do my thinking for me, as you seem to need.

SC: Not really:

Sorry really, for some odd XXX based reason you just cannot bring yourself to create a new thread - ah, we can all see that won't, come on Scott prove me wrong, start a thread in this forum - what exactly is stopping you except XXX?

It's all very funny

edit on 17/10/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

Hans,

Not a single word of your above post is related to discussing the other pyramids at Giza which is what the thread is supposed to be doing. Now if you do not want to discuss the other pyramids at Giza that's fine - butt out and leave those of us who actually DO want to discuss them in peace to do so.

Regards,

SC

Scott Creighton
It is not just that mainstream proponents fail to adequately respond to the numerous glaring anomalies in their argument that I present to them, they actually base their belief in the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) on imaginary evidence rather than dealing with the evidence that has actually been found in-situ within the first pyramids. They claim that the king's body was stolen from the so-called 'sarcophagus' of the pyramid. But for them to make such a claim they first have to prove that the stone box they claim to be a sarcophagus IS a sarcophagus and not actually a similar style of stone box known as a neb-ankh or an 'Osiris Bed'. These stone boxes which were not used for the burial of kings look very similar to sarcophagi although sarcophagi are generally inscribed with the deceased's name and tiltes (even Khufu's children had their sarcophagi inscribed).

The first mention of Osiris is from the Fifth Dynasty (King Unas), some 100 years after the pyramids. en.wikipedia.org...

There are no images/hieroglyphs/artifacts that relate to Osiris at the time that Khufu/Khafre/Menkaure/Djedefre were alive.

Now, when we consider what was actually found in, for example, G2 (by Belzonni in 1818), an uninscribed stone box filled with earth, stones and fragments of bull bones,

Consider the human remains from Menkaure: en.wikipedia.org..., and in other pyramids such as the pyramid of Unas.

this points to the use of this stone box as a neb-ankh or 'Osiris Bed' and NOT a sarcophagus. But the Egyptologists simply ignore the evidence they actually found in G2, imagine instead that the king's body musta been in the stone box, got nicked and someone came by later to fill the stone box with earth and stones. They imagine all of this rather than simply accept that the earth filled stone box they found in G2 was actually an 'Osiris Bed' and was the original content of the pyramid. This evidence (neb-ankh/'Osiris Bed') proves, beyond doubt, that the stone boxes in these first pyramids were NOT sarcophagi, ergo they were NOT for burial of a king, ergo the first pyramids were NOT conceived as tombs for kings.

I find it hard to believe they were making artifacts to a deity that wouldn't be worshiped for another 150 years or so. The portion of the Pyramid Texts that you link to in your message about Osiris and the Pyramid is actually from the pyramid of Pepi II, who lived 300 years after Khufu and is part of the "Protection of the Pyramid" section of the texts that were painted in his tomb. This is not present in earlier versions of the Pyramid Texts.

So the link you propose and the history of Osiris you propose has some real problems.

In addition, the "osiris bed" in your photo is actually less than 2 feet long (you can see it with an archaeologist's scale in this photo: collections.smvk.se...) The human sized osiris beds are stretched linen on a bed frame and not a box (image here: www.rosenlake.net...). Osiris beds date to the New Kingdom, well over a thousand years after the Giza pyramids.

Byrd comments that the 'corn mummies' were from a later period. I am not exactly sure what her point is but it seems to be that simply because the first pyramids and the 'corn mummies' were from different periods of ancient Egyptian history that they are unconnected. That's simply nonsense. It's like saying a small, metal crucifix made in a factory in Sheffield last week is completely unconnected to the events of 2,000 years ago that inspired it.

Yes, I find it as unlikely as a claim of a Sheffield factory making metal Christian crosses in 100 BC.

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Ah a spike of rational thinking from Scott, well done - you figured out it was silly to get addressing posts to someone who won't respond.

I will await your future thread on this subject in this thread - will we have to wait long for it? I also look forward to your detailed discussion with Will over which is right, Great pyramid seed vault or water powered whatjamacallit.

Byrd

Scott Creighton
It is not just that mainstream proponents fail to adequately respond to the numerous glaring anomalies in their argument that I present to them, they actually base their belief in the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT) on imaginary evidence rather than dealing with the evidence that has actually been found in-situ within the first pyramids. They claim that the king's body was stolen from the so-called 'sarcophagus' of the pyramid. But for them to make such a claim they first have to prove that the stone box they claim to be a sarcophagus IS a sarcophagus and not actually a similar style of stone box known as a neb-ankh or an 'Osiris Bed'. These stone boxes which were not used for the burial of kings look very similar to sarcophagi although sarcophagi are generally inscribed with the deceased's name and tiltes (even Khufu's children had their sarcophagi inscribed).

The first mention of Osiris is from the Fifth Dynasty (King Unas), some 100 years after the pyramids. en.wikipedia.org...

There are no images/hieroglyphs/artifacts that relate to Osiris at the time that Khufu/Khafre/Menkaure/Djedefre were alive.

SC: And your point is? When I use the term ‘Osiris Bed’ or ‘Osiris Brick’ or ‘Corn Mummy’ I am merely using the term that modern Egyptology uses to describe these stone containers. The AEs of the early pyramid-building age probably called such stone containers ‘neb-ankh’.

When Osiris rose to prominence the later AEs might have referred to these containers also as ‘neb-ankh’ but by now were also placing within them images of Osiris pressed into the earth within the container. Just because modern Egyptologists call these later containers ‘Osiris Beds’ or ‘Osiris/Bricks’ doesn’t mean the AEs themselves called them such.

SC: Now, when we consider what was actually found in, for example, G2 (by Belzonni in 1818), an uninscribed stone box filled with earth, stones and fragments of bull bones,

Byrd: Consider the human remains from Menkaure: en.wikipedia.org...

SC: Which merely proves that pyramids were used as tombs for clear intrusive burials. The anthropoid coffin found in G3 is not consistent with the vaulted wooden coffins of the 4th dynasty and is consistent with that of the Saite Period (25th or 26th dynasty) – but I am sure you must know this. You said yourself that Osiris was not attested in written form until the 5th dynasty and yet this 4th dynasty coffin supposedly of Menkaure bears the name of Osiris (see below). Not only is the coffin anachronistic but the supposed remains that some Egyptologists believed were those of Menkaure have been dated to early AD. Clearly an intrusive burial (or burials).

Byrd:....and in other pyramids such as the pyramid of Unas.

SC: As stated, pyramids were clearly used as tombs—that much is clear given that intrusive burials have been recovered from them. The fragments of human remains found in Unas have never been proven to be those of the king. Indeed, many Egyptologists long held the view that the remains found in the Step Pyramid (a mummified foot) were those of Djoser until the remains were actually dated to (at least) 1,000 years after Djoser. Burials in pyramids certainly occurred but it is clear that most of these were clear intrusive burials from later periods and any others are ambiguous to say the least. These remains do not tell us that the pyramid was conceived and built as a tomb—only that later people utilised it as such in the same way that some modern people have utilised Cadillacs in which to place their remains.

But all of this is to miss the point. I do not actually have a problem with the view that the later, much smaller and inferior-built pyramids may well have been constructed as tombs—just not the first 16 or so pyramids that include the giant pyramids. It remains my view that—in accordance with the Pyramid Texts—these structures represented the allegorical ‘body of Osiris’. Why the first 16 or so? Because Plutarch’s Myth of Isis and Osiris tells us that the body of Osiris was divided into 16 parts. Indeed, when we take an overview of the first 16 pyramids completed by the AEs we find something quite remarkable:











SC: Note the body of Osiris is green representing the green, fertile Nile Valley whilst his clothes are white representing the white Turah limestone that once covered all the early pyramids. Within this great ‘pyramid body of Osiris’ all manner of ‘recovery goods’ were stored including vast quantities of seed grain and, as you know, massive quantities of such were in fact recovered from the Step Pyramid complex. There is also evidence of vast amounts of grain having once been stored in the GP.

SC:...this points to the use of this stone box as a neb-ankh or 'Osiris Bed' and NOT a sarcophagus. But the Egyptologists simply ignore the evidence they actually found in G2, imagine instead that the king's body musta been in the stone box, got nicked and someone came by later to fill the stone box with earth and stones. They imagine all of this rather than simply accept that the earth filled stone box they found in G2 was actually an 'Osiris Bed' and was the original content of the pyramid. This evidence (neb-ankh/'Osiris Bed') proves, beyond doubt, that the stone boxes in these first pyramids were NOT sarcophagi, ergo they were NOT for burial of a king, ergo the first pyramids were NOT conceived as tombs for kings.

Byrd: I find it hard to believe they were making artifacts to a deity that wouldn't be worshiped for another 150 years or so.

SC: If the pyramid represents the ‘body of Osiris’ then the earth-filled neb-ankh found in G2 was the ‘container of life’ designed to hold the ‘soul of Osiris’ within the ‘pyramid body of Osiris’. This is why within the earth-filled neb-ankh of G2 fragments of bull bones were found. If you know your AE hieroglyphs you will know that the bull is the sign used for ‘soul’. The placement of the ‘soul’ within the ‘body’ was part of a deep, chthonic ritual to ensure the recovery/rebirth of the Earth (the AE kingdom) after its destruction in a coming deluge. As I said this was a chthonic ritual that would later become identified with Osiris and the success of which would ensure the rise of Osiris to greater prominence in later dynasties.

Continued........

Continued from previous......

Byrd: The portion of the Pyramid Texts that you link to in your message about Osiris and the Pyramid is actually from the pyramid of Pepi II, who lived 300 years after Khufu and is part of the "Protection of the Pyramid" section of the texts that were painted in his tomb. This is not present in earlier versions of the Pyramid Texts.

SC: Different kings selected different spells from the PTs to place in the pyramid. So what. The most ancient body of religious texts we have in the world tells us, unequivocally, that “...the pyramid ... is Osiris – this construction... is Osiris”.

Byrd: So the link you propose and the history of Osiris you propose has some real problems.

SC: Really? Why?

Byrd: In addition, the "osiris bed" in your photo is actually less than 2 feet long (you can see it with an archaeologist's scale in this photo: collections.smvk.se...) The human sized osiris beds are stretched linen on a bed frame and not a box (image here: www.rosenlake.net...).

SC: The image I presented is actually what Egyptologists refer to as an ‘Osiris Brick’ which is essentially a miniature version of the neb-ankh. These would be filled with earth and sown with seed in the shape of Osiris. Typically these smaller neb-ankhs would be used by the population during the Festival of Khoiak. You could hardly expect celebrants to take full-size, granite neb-ankhs with them to the festival. However, during the festival the temple priests would present larger versions:

Plutarch mentions that (for much later period) two days after the beginning of the festival "the priests bring forth a sacred chest containing a small golden coffer, into which they pour some potable water...and a great shout arises from the company for joy that Osiris is found (or resurrected). Then they knead some fertile soil with the water...and fashion therefrom a crescent-shaped figure, which they cloth and adorn, this indicating that they regard these gods as the substance of Earth and Water." (Isis and Osiris, 39) –Source.

In association with these miniature neb-ankhs, the festival celebrants would also fashion miniature effigies of Osiris from mud or clay and place within the ‘body of Osiris’ seed. This they would then place into the ground under a large boulder symbolising the primeval mound i.e. the pyramid.

In placing their seed within their ‘body of Osiris’ effigy, the AEs were remembering and honouring the (dismembered) ‘pyramid body of Osiris’ that also once held the seed grain (and other recovery items) that ensured the recovery/rebirth of the earth (the kingdom). The two are connected.

Byrd: Osiris beds date to the New Kingdom, well over a thousand years after the Giza pyramids.

SC: For goodness sake, join the dots. Just because ‘Osiris Beds/Bricks’ date to later Egyptian history doesn’t mean they just materialised at that time out of nowhere, that there was no cultural backstory for their eventual emergence. Chocolate Easter eggs are a relatively recent addition to the Christian celebration of Easter so, by your rationale, they are to be disconnected with the 2,000 year-old Christian story of the ‘empty tomb’ just because they didn’t exist 2,000 years ago.

In short, the granite earth-filled stone container found in G2 was NOT a sarcophagus at all but rather the archetype neb-ankh. These were stone containers used as part of a deep chthonic ritual that celebrated the rebirth/recovery of the earth through the agency of Osiris i.e. the pyramid body of Osiris into which the neb-ankh (the soul) was placed. The AEs knew this and would eventually come to celebrate it with their own small replica neb-anks and ‘corn mummy’ bodies of Osiris.

Regards,

SC

Omg!

Not again scott.

Not your silly osiris pyramid ark silo theory.

Plugging in your pet sick theory into every thread about egypt (even if it were about a modern egypt) is indeed sick!

you already have a thread on the topic. why hijack and assassinate another thread which is not even connected to your silly theory???