Swiss to Vote on 2,500 franc Basic Income for Every Adult

Saw this earlier today. Looks like the Swiss are taking their citizen safety net and corporate pay issues seriously enough to try and make some high impact changes to their country.

Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

(Reuters) - Switzerland will hold a vote on whether to introduce a basic income for all adults, in a further sign of growing public activism over pay inequality since the financial crisis.

A grassroots committee is calling for all adults in Switzerland to receive an unconditional income of 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800) per month from the state, with the aim of providing a financial safety net for the population.

Before anyone says they'll never do it look at this.

Under Swiss law, citizens can organize popular initiatives that allow the channeling of public anger into direct political action. The country usually holds several referenda a year.

In March, Swiss voters backed some of the world's strictest controls on executive pay, forcing public companies to give shareholders a binding vote on compensation.

A separate proposal to limit monthly executive pay to no more than what the company's lowest-paid staff earn in a year, the so-called 1:12 initiative, faces a popular vote on November 24.

I'm not sure that last part is going to work out so good. Making a CEO earn approximately twelve times minimum wage? Probably many will head for the door and take their companies with them.

The guaranteed safety net is an intriguing idea. On the other hand how many workers do you know that would continue working in your country if they received a free check for over $33K per year?

reply to post by Bassago


CEO's are SO over rated. Even at 12 times pay, that's ALOT of loot, and I guarantee that at least 1,000 other people could do well as CEO at that pay level.

HanzHenry
reply to post by Bassago

 

CEO's are SO over rated. Even at 12 times pay, that's ALOT of loot, and I guarantee that at least 1,000 other people could do well as CEO at that pay level.

While this is completely true the real question is WOULD the do it? My faith in capitalism is not extremely high. I think many of them would cut and run with the company in tow. Guess it would depend on the board of directors to have the final say.

ETA - I was also interested in the safety net idea they are discussing. Don't really care what they do to the CEO's.

reply to post by Bassago

I'm not sure that last part is going to work out so good. Making a CEO earn approximately twelve times minimum wage? Probably many will head for the door and take their companies with them.

Or it will encourage companies to be more productive, make better use of their employees and pay them accordingly.

Some of my employees make more than I do with overtime and bonuses, I have no problem with that. I only have problems with internal theft and laziness.

An owner or CEO can still make plenty more under those conditions by having more than one business interest. My personal long term goals are to have more than a dozen companies all paying me the same wage as my staff, the first one is the worst, after you have a few paychecks coming in you realize how well you are doing. The trick is making sure the businesses stay afloat by not wasting money and taking loans like so many are prone to do.

reply to post by Bassago


I think what that last part means is the lowest paid employee would have to be paid 1/12th of the top. If the company does really really well, then everyone has to make more money, not just those at the top. If a company is only making enough to pay the Head 12 times that of it's lowest worker it's not doing very well.

Basically what I gather is the swiss are eliminating a "minimum" wage for the majority of jobs. I'm sure a minimum will still exist in many services but there will not be a bill gates at the top making millions a day.

reply to post by boncho

Your post is quite encouraging but do you see yourself as representative of other CEO's as well? I'd hazard a guess (and it's just a guess) that most CEO's of large corporations do not feel as you do about employees making more than yourself.

The only real life proof to myself of this came during a discussion that took place in Redmond, WA at a large (unnamed but you know them) corp meeting where the CEO baldly stated to us that the local campus was of no importance, it was just a few buildings to him. One of the VP's told me to my face he didn't care how or in which country he resolved issues if it saved his division money. That was directly after eliminating over 300 full time jobs.

While I applaud your work ethic I don't believe it to be widespread.

Bassago
Saw this earlier today. Looks like the Swiss are taking their citizen safety net and corporate pay issues seriously enough to try and make some high impact changes to their country.

Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

(Reuters) - Switzerland will hold a vote on whether to introduce a basic income for all adults, in a further sign of growing public activism over pay inequality since the financial crisis.

A grassroots committee is calling for all adults in Switzerland to receive an unconditional income of 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800) per month from the state, with the aim of providing a financial safety net for the population.

Before anyone says they'll never do it look at this.

Under Swiss law, citizens can organize popular initiatives that allow the channeling of public anger into direct political action. The country usually holds several referenda a year.

In March, Swiss voters backed some of the world's strictest controls on executive pay, forcing public companies to give shareholders a binding vote on compensation.

A separate proposal to limit monthly executive pay to no more than what the company's lowest-paid staff earn in a year, the so-called 1:12 initiative, faces a popular vote on November 24.

I'm not sure that last part is going to work out so good. Making a CEO earn approximately twelve times minimum wage? Probably many will head for the door and take their companies with them.

The guaranteed safety net is an intriguing idea. On the other hand how many workers do you know that would continue working in your country if they received a free check for over $33K per year?

I used to work in UK government as a civil servant, this is something I had suggested in the 70's just in general office discussion, at a time of much turmoil in the UK.
A singular payment defining that you exist as a citizen, not as a person, that would be the trick.
The 33K figure, sounds good but Switzerland is a very expensive place, I would suggest there is much more buying power in the similar US dollar at home than the Swiss Franc at home.

HanzHenry
reply to post by Bassago

 

CEO's are SO over rated. Even at 12 times pay, that's ALOT of loot, and I guarantee that at least 1,000 other people could do well as CEO at that pay level.

$8.00 (minimum wage) x 12 = $96.00.

It sounds like welfare and the article doesn't state whether the adults have to be employed. But good on them. With a population between 7-8 million and approximately 20% of the population under the age of 21 it might work. I've heard That Switzerland requires people to be employed but I could be wrong. The nice thing is that the people are voting this in so they are having a choice. And with most of their population working (they only have a 3% unemployment rate), at least a majority of the population would be contributing to the system instead of draining it with no return to the community.

reply to post by StoutBroux


The unemployment rate and population are probably a factor in the possible success of this venture. Couldn't imagine this would work very well here with a population of 350 million people and such high unemployment.

While it would help immensely with many folks who desperately need it I can imagine 50 million people who would gladly sit around and do nothing for a nice paycheck.

It would be amazing if they can pull such a thing off. Wait and see, huh?

I'm sure some would argue about inflation and such. Yet I feel that things would happen to keep inflation in check if the ratio of inflation were likely to affect the wealthiest.

The best part is that when more of the population is well off (this would mean the mean, instead of the average which is thrown off by outliers to the point of being useless), there's more money in circulation. When capital actually flows instead of being hoarded (and hoarded money can also drive inflation at the expense of everybody else), that's what makes an economy vibrant. People buying things, and more demand for goods and services because they can afford them.

Sounds like a better deal than what I'm stuck with here. Where I'm forced to hoard every dollar I get in order to plan for a few simple things, because there's not much left when those at the top hoard dollars just because they can. Personally I don't like being stingy, so it sucks when I'm forced into it on somebody else's terms.

pauljs75
It would be amazing if they can pull such a thing off.

It would be amazing. Normally I am not one for this type of money redistribution but in this case it might actually work. I don't know enough about the Swiss internal economies to figure this all out but for once it would be nice to see some of the multi-billions governments spend going back to the people for a change. If only to see if there is a snowballs chance that this would actually work. Guess we'll see.

You know, I've been thinking about this terminator/skynet crap after hearing so much about drones. Then there are my suspicions that the collective network & possibly power grids have become a domain for some type of computerized conscious entity... which should easily be expected if the conspiracy theories about computerizing consciousness...(not just spying & brain mapping which they have admitted in various ways)...can ever be proven to the skeptics.

Then today I saw a running robot they call the cheetah. It looks like a work in progress to me & a bit wobbly, but interesting because if they tweek & balance it, it's going to freaking terrifying being run down by one of these things if anyone ever accuses me of purse snatching.

What I want to know, is since we like gadgets so much, why can't one of these cheetah or something similar stock my grocery store, clean the floor, bring me my fries... or build me a house. That would be so much more awesome than wondering if the spoiled punk who brought me my fries spit in them.

Since we have machines do so much work for us, why can't this idea be expand into helping to supplement a base income for everyone instead of solely being used for violent & terrifying purposes like remote control war?

We'd grow to love our little robot buddies who work for us and many would be glad to see to it they were kept up and repaired.

NotAnAspie
Since we have machines do so much work for us, why can't this idea be expand into helping to supplement a base income for everyone instead of solely being used for violent & terrifying purposes like remote control war?

We'd grow to love our little robot buddies who work for us and many would be glad to see to it they were kept up and repaired.

Interesting idea NotAnAspie. Like you said, they're still a little wobbly at this point. Maybe though when robots become as common as automatic garage doors something like what you envision will be possible.

I lived in Switzerland most of my life. The upcoming vote on basic income is the reason for making me proud to live here (probably the first time in 35 years). I am pretty sure the vote won't go through though, we just had a vote to raise minimum vacation from 4 to 5 weeks, it was declined .

As I see it, the idea is to eliminate every other safety net there is (eg. social welfare, retirement funding, etc.). The financial impact on the gov is estimated about the same as the current burden (our social safety net cost the gov about 30% of the gdp right now, the cost for the system of basic income were estimated around the the same).

Pro:
- existential fears might diminish, stress related health cost sink
- you still have to work if you want all those fancy mac airs and iphones, so it's unlikely that it produces a bunch of people who just don't want to work (2500 - 500 health insurance - 1000 housing - 400 food - 300 clothing - 300 power and internet) I know I would work, didn't study 8 years to sit on my couch
- lower crime maybe
- maybe we can make a historic utopian example for other nations (if this goes well or bad) - isn't that like the system in Star Trek?

Contra:
- incentives to work will be lower
- crappy jobs wont be filled for low wages (even though I'm not sure if it is a problem of the job itself rather than the initiative)
- Global players might leave for places they can better exploit people (but they already do it, eg. our firms whole IT is in Hungary and India, production is somewhere in China)
- abuse, eg. come here but send all money out of the area
- every age gets the same amount (does an 18yr old really need as much as an 50yr old?)

I see it as a great opportunity to make people happy, relaxed, and pursue their own goals -> money isn't the reason to live or is it?

If a big nation like the US will be able to make something like that work, I guarantee you, humanity will be back on the moon in no time and a whole new era of science and spirituality will begin (I hope we can make a good example that will make you think)

On the 1:12 initiative I don't care to much, but I remind you that the great Philosopher Plato said 1:4

You know, the Swiss have made a great number of things work that other nations have not. A special people, to my thinking, for how the country has so successfully navigated history.

This? Well... If immigration is all but closed off, it could be a great idea. If Immigration is open, then I'll join the other 7 billion or so people in asking ....what are immigration laws to Switzerland? (big grin)

I hope you all have lots of extra housing because as the movie said, 'Build it and they will come'. That goes triple for support systems that make US welfare look cheesy to extremes. It might even take some stress off our numbers for a bit...tho probably too far away to do much in that way.

Wrabbit2000

This? Well... If immigration is all but closed off, it could be a great idea. If Immigration is open, then I'll join the other 7 billion or so people in asking ....what are immigration laws to Switzerland? (big grin)

I hope you all have lots of extra housing because as the movie said, 'Build it and they will come'. That goes triple for support systems that make US welfare look cheesy to extremes. It might even take some stress off our numbers for a bit...tho probably too far away to do much in that way.

With EU laws on free travel and medical tourism being such an issue for the UK immigration this could be a definite factor for the Swiss. Somehow though I don't see them as falling for that obvious trap like the UK did.

However if they fail to plug immigration holes the plan will not survive long term. IMO.

I agree with it, and world wide, and above the poverty level, to middle middle class for you family size.

reply to post by Unity_99


This article talks about the idea behind a basic income guarantee, priceonomics.com...

Especially interesting is the idea that it would free a lot of people up to do a lot more productive things. For example, I work 30 hours a week, and go to school 20 or so. The quality of work I could achieve would be so much greater if I had more time to spend on my schoolwork stuff, because I had a basic income that covered my living expenses.

Honestly I love the idea, and I hope it succeeds. I imagine there will be a lot of propaganda put forth by the big wigs to squash this. CEO's aren't gonna want to be required to give raises to their employees so that they can in return get a raise. They aren't gonna want to give the lowest employees 83k a year so that they can make a mil a year.