On Choosing Your Sexuality

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Let me make sure i got this straight: before people are born they choose to be gay so that they can be judged harshly for their immoral behavior? So our souls want to be gay, and they knowingly do this to their own detriment?

I thought God decides what soul goes in what body. Soooo, it is God's choice to make us gay before we are born. Is it just that he has a warped sense of humor or does it indicate that being gay is ok.

You can extend this logical nonsense. If man is created in God's image and the possibility of being gay exists in all of us then is God gay. Well, he doesn't have a wife. When he wanted a child he used a surrogate mother. It all points to the one conclusion.

Further, his son, Jesus ran around with 12 men, never had a wife. Like father like son perhaps. Perhaps God is Gay and Jesus was bi.

Logic and religion are like an estranged couple, but hetro or gay is anyone's guess.

P

terriblyvexed
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I don't like the born that way argument, if you had asked me when I was a child what sexuality I was, except for the defensive "I'M NOT GAY!" kid attitude. I could never have given an honest answer because my sexuality was not truly known to me.

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

For some the lines will always be muddled, myself for example, I've never engaged in homosexuality not for moral reasons "as I can find nothing immoral about it", but because I decided I prefer women.But yet I still can't look you in the eye, and say rather or not I'm sexually attracted to Russel Crowe! That man is my enigma!

He has such dreamy eyes, and can wear the hell out of a cowboy hat! We're all gay it's just to what extent, and the choice has and always will be you're own.

I am sorry you don't like the "born that way argument" but the fact is....IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I'm a heterosexual male....and yes, I was born this way. Ive been attracted to females since I could remember....maybe 6, 7ish? Not necessarily in a sexual way....but that is nonetheless where my attraction was.

As I grew older, my attraction towards females only developed. I can tell you honestly, I am NOT heterosexual because of how I was raised, who my friends were, or any other social influence.

Likewise, I know MANY gay men that were born that way. A few of them you could tell from the time they were 6ish.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't invalidate it. Like I said...it is what it is. We can argue about things like politics, religion, and many other topics......but some things either ARE....or AREN'T.

As a heterosexual male....I'm telling you, I didn't CHOOSE to like women. It is natural, it just is how it is. Some gay guys I know it is quite the same.

John Stossel once did an investigative story about CAH children. How there was an actual difference in some children that made boys act like girls and girls act like boys. They showed how "normal" boys if given girls toys would turn them into guns or other "male" things to play with. They showed them using barbie dolls as guns to play cops and robbers.

Likewise they showed the classic tomboys who played with the boys, competed with them, and did not engage in typical "girl" activities like playing house, etc..

Being a southerner though there is a type of woman who might be confused by others to be gay because she is a no nonsense, not frilly, able to kill her own bears, and many would think is gay and she is not. How much is culture vs. how much is nature?

This might only fit for women having the tomboy aspect and not being gay. Though the metro sexual male may be a culture thing as well, and many might think he is gay and he isn't.

I think it's hard to look at what adolescents and young adults are doing because they experiment. Some girls like to tantalize the guys by acting sexual with other women. They are not gay, but might play along and not have any issues with it.

With 1:3 girls sexually molested in some way, how many of them just can't connect to men and gravitate to same sex relationships? Are they born that way? I don't think so, but I do believe some are born different. It's not a one size fits all sort of issue.

Great thread BFFT!!
I am of the mind that it isnt a choice. Maybe the particular activity is a choice... just like in hetero relationships.. but the sexual orientation? Nope. Not gender identity either. I cant understand it being a choice at all. Even if it was a choice... who cares?

Personally I have never cared. Ive never asked a potential friend if theyre gay or not. From the looks of it, I think some on ATS just might do that! LOL! I take each person for who they are, what they do, and what they need. Not who they poke, how they do it.. etc. Im sure some puritans around here would faint.. maybe have a stroke.. if they peeped in our bedroom windows over the years and we are definitely heterosexual. I guess I think the biggest factor is not your sexuality, but who you are inside of your sexuality and what you do with it toward others. Hurtful horrible folks arent found in only one orientation.
Way back when the closet was where you stayed.. my college roomie off campus was a gay guy. I didnt care, culturally we dont have a problem, and my fam was aware ( thankful in fact!).. and it served both of us well. I was centered on education and not dating.. and he had a cover living with me ( he was the type that was all man manly man man). Being gay could end certain careers before they even started. I learned a lot from that long relationship... gay folks arent treated very well at all. No one in their right mind would choose to be treated like that.

Unlike a lot of other things I have rattling around up there in my skull.. my view on this is VERY simplistic : I simply dont care if youre hetero or homo.. just be you and I just might like ya.

I think it is funny that so many are obsessed with lumping everyone into a "choice" or "not choice" camp.

All the ones who believe people are just born that way are surely putting humans into a "animal only" category, and purposefully and willfully ignoring the massive amount of different things that can affect people.

I believe there are MANY different circumstances, and that some are flat out "gay" so to speak, but also there are many that do NOT know what they want until experimenting and trying a lot of drugs, lifestyles.

It is oversimplification by people who do not want to believe that sexuality could be symptomatic of soul issues, cultural issues, chemical issues, bloodline matching god knows so many things.

It is all to common to believe things are either black or white, when certainly things are far more complex.

Incredible also that people cannot handle exploring the issue on a deeper level, they just too lazy I guess.

_BoneZ_
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Very well-said. I believe that those who claim that homosexuality is a "choice" and/or can be "cured" are ignorant, misinformed, and lack the proper research and education on the subject.

I didn't choose to be heterosexual.... I think that answers the question quite well.

reply to post by supermarket2012


It seems that people find the thought of choosing you're own path to be a bigotry concept.

Have you never liked something when you were younger, and then do to life experience changed your mind about that something?

Our emotions, feelings, everything that makes us who we are, are created through experience.

I'm sorry that my belief that we make our own choices offends everyone, but sexuality is a part of our psyche developed by experience.

To say someone chose to be gay isn't a evil thing in my view, it's who they are, they chose their life, and I for one am comforted by the thought that I choose my way in life, that there's not some "I can't help it, it was fate" scenario, that put's who I am out of my control.

Everything has an affect on you, maybe not significant, but an affect none the less. If I meet a guy, and choose to be with him, you can bet I'll not say I had no chose in the matter, but for what ever reason he made me happy, and the decision wasn't some fate I was doomed to from birth, just a chose I wanted to make for me, based off experience in my life.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Great thread, OP. Thank you for giving your own parental experience. Really glad you created it.

I hope this thread stays on the ATS radar for a while because a lot of ATS'ers REALLY need to view it.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You don't get to "choose" your gender.

Look down there and if what you see isn't acceptable to you have a laboratory count your chromosomes then deal with the fact.

However, you can choose to ignore the truth and convince yourself, and pretend, or role play a drama all you want but that's a whole other story; you know, kind of like a religion

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I never picked up on my daughter being gay at all. My eldest daughter told me "do you know you have a gay child?". I said yes it's my son, I can tell, I've always known that.
Sure wasn't him though!

People who believe sexuality is a choice are either ignorant or just not very wise.

Bless'em, you gotta feel a little sympathy for them?

I do.

terriblyvexed
reply to post by supermarket2012

 

It seems that people find the thought of choosing you're own path to be a bigotry concept.

Have you never liked something when you were younger, and then do to life experience changed your mind about that something?

Our emotions, feelings, everything that makes us who we are, are created through experience.

I'm sorry that my belief that we make our own choices offends everyone, but sexuality is a part of our psyche developed by experience.

To say someone chose to be gay isn't a evil thing in my view, it's who they are, they chose their life, and I for one am comforted by the thought that I choose my way in life, that there's not some "I can't help it, it was fate" scenario, that put's who I am out of my control.

Everything has an affect on you, maybe not significant, but an affect none the less. If I meet a guy, and choose to be with him, you can bet I'll not say I had no chose in the matter, but for what ever reason he made me happy, and the decision wasn't some fate I was doomed to from birth, just a chose I wanted to make for me, based off experience in my life.

ONe thing I might point out: you are confusing "who you are" with "what you are".

Gay is a "what", not a "who". The same as terms like "black", "fat", or "American". All those labels....they are "what" you are, not "who" you are. "Who" relates to the content of your character....your inner being. It can no more be "gay" than it can be "chinese".

If you meet a guy and choose to be with him, then you likely were already homosexual. Men cannot have sex without arousal. Thus, you cannot "choose" to be homosexual....men just don't work that way.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Well I never claimed to be good with words.

And I'm not attracted to my hand, but I don't believe I need anymore explanation.

terriblyvexed
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Well I never claimed to be good with words.

And I'm not attracted to my hand, but I don't believe I need anymore explanation.

But you are not repulsed by your hand, either? Because a naked man is repulsive to me.

If a naked man is not repulsive to you, and you believe you could enjoy homosexual sex "if you had to"....that is a stark difference to me who could not.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Hey BFFT, question out of idle curiosity. I understand you find the male body to be a big sexual turnoff! Can you look at a male and think 'nice body' in much the same way that you could look at the Statue of David and think it has artistic merit?

I ask because many, many people in some western countries seem to have an undeniable link between nudity and sexuality. I don't think the two go hand in hand.

As I said, curiosity asking.

P

One little thing. I have had quite a few female friends over the years. And i never have been a fan of many sports. (Tennis, yes but that's not very manly is it!! :lol

Anyway, i'm not homosexual.

I think people also make the assumption that if you're friends with girls and don't like sports or "boys" things growing up that you're probably gay.

I grew up with 2 girls as my best friends. We were put together in a play pen before we could even remember or think for ourselves! We lived withing 2 houses of each other and up until the age of 16 the 3 of us had grown up together and were pretty inseparable. And to this day i'm still very close to one of them and the other i am still "distant" friends with. Growing up, they played with dolls... so i sometimes joined in.. they were like my sisters. Was i not going to play with them? No. But i didn't care.. i didn't know it was "strange"

If anything, it's been an extremely valuable experience. I understand girls, and i'm not "scared" to approach them like some guys are. It was like having 2 sisters.. i went to the same school, and saw them nearly every single day for pretty much 16 straight years of my life. I have female friends to this day, and it's easy for me. I also have male friends... but i don't see their gender, i see them as a person.

Anyway, having 2 girls as my best friends growing up hasn't made me homosexual. So i struggle to see how people STILL believe it's a choice based on environment or how they are brought up.

People seem to be looking at needing one answer to answer it all.

As a Counselor I know what harm can be done to children of both sexes.

I believe that many are born with a predisposition to be gay or bi or hetro.

You can also screw up a child in such a way to make 'gay' their life choice. A male pervert who preys on a little boy for long enough can do a great deal of harm such that the child knows no other way of making the human connection.

Another pervert into little girls can do similar levels of harm causing that child to hate men to such an extent that a normal hetro relationship is impossible.

This thread has become somewhat polarized. Often there are more than just one answer.

In my case, having been raised by some rather viscous nuns I am simply wary of women and it has taken a good part of my lifetime to be in a position to relate to women and even so, I prefer my own company whilst yearning deeply for the love I did not receive as a child.

So rather than thinking there has to be only one answer, think of possibilities instead.

Some people are born this way, others perhaps were made this way. One size does not fit all.

P

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

And because the way women tend to view sex (it is as much emotional as physical), I do think it is easier for a woman to find same sex intercourse to be acceptable.

You are partly correct. Yes, women like for sex to be emotionally engaging....
BUT...
I find the idea of two women engaging in sex together to be repulsive. I am NOT interested in seeing, touching, smelling, kissing ANY part of a woman (save her cheek, or a dry, closed-lips peck, sort of off to the side.)

Having said that, there are women who I see as "attractive" - or 'cute', or 'beautiful' - still, I haven't the SLIGHTEST interest in 'exploring their bodies'. *shudder* So rather than say I have "latent homosexual urges", I see it as an appreciation of the beauty of some humans' - male and female - physical forms. I have been approached by gay women, and bisexual women, and even on one inebriated party night tried a "real" kiss with a woman (who I couldn't stand in person) on a dare from my (now-ex)husband. It grossed me out. Ew. Ick. But then again, HE kinda grossed me out, too.

(In fact, I'm a little prudish myself, because I would want NOTHING to do with a woman's parts, I can't really understand what men find so compelling about us women... )

Another thought, now that I've read all the responses:
Who we are attracted to is not 'controllable' - I have had extremely handsome men around me that I wasn't "attracted" to (although all the women around could barely resist them)....and at the same time, I've had unendurable "crushes" on people who were no more suitable for me than trying to dissolve oil in water.

Hormones are a systematic part of what we are; we CAN NOT turn them on and off at will. Just like we can't stop our own hearts from beating or the blood coursing through our veins. We are "captives" in these bodies, and at their mercy. Akragon has a thread open now about having an infatuation with a young lady who seems particularly ill-suited to him personality-wise, and he's struggling with that dilemma. I know how that feels...

Now that I'm post-menopausal I have VERY little interest in sex at all. (Much to my poor, patient husband's chagrine.)

reply to post by wildtimes


My wife is the same way. The idea of another woman, in that manner, disgusts her.

Perhaps it is better stated like this: each gender has its solely heterosexual, and its solely homosexual. But the broad swath of humanity is bisexual to varying degrees. Some repress it, some dont. Men tend to repress it more than women.

Where it gets nasty is when the person repressing their homosexuality begins to feel morally superior for it.

terriblyvexed
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Well I never claimed to be good with words.

And I'm not attracted to my hand, but I don't believe I need anymore explanation.

Just had to. I'm in that "mood" today. LOL