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We can't change anything...or can we?

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posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 



Well as much as we can we need to be that Big Hard Sun beating on the big people in the big hard world.




posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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seagull
Patience. Perseverance. ...and an iron will, and incorruptible honor. A willingness to say no to interests.

Are there people like that around? I think that there are. It's up to us to find them, convince them, support them, and, most importantly of all, watch them once we get them into office.


How do you suggest we go about that right now?

While it will certainly take a "while" (Id say generations before we saw the full benefit), it has to start with a single step.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


There is no way a population can change anything. The government have armed their forces to the teeth.
And they have paied the media to potray any opposition to look like they are disturbing Peace.

There is no way we can beat the system. Because there are too many who have the idea that we need it.



posted on Oct, 7 2013 @ 12:37 PM
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spy66
There is no way we can beat the system. Because there are too many who have the idea that we need it.



And there lies my fail on the thought of the animation Antz...

I never thought about this...

See when people bitch about this and that I usually say go watch Antz, but you know I never thought about the part where a lot of people are dependent on the government to the point that they think we need it...

Oh well, I guess I need another movie for compassion...
edit on 10/7/2013 by ThichHeaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


How do we start? That's a good question, and one that I don't have an exact answer to.

First? We need to give up this notion that things are beyond the point where we can fix it.

Second? We need to decide what sort of person/persons we need in office. Find 'em. Put 'em there. This is where it's going to be difficult, and contentious.

My thoughts on the matter of what sort of person is this... One who is able to say no, to his/her party when it becomes necessary to serve his/her constituency (us). One who is able to say no, to the special interests who will be trying to buy his/her vote. They're out there, but most/many aren't willing to put up with the drama that will be their lives if they enter the political arena. That's our job, too... Convincing these people that they're needed. Maybe the toughest part of the job.

These are my thoughts. Feel free to disagree. ...or agree, for that matter.



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 01:07 PM
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seagull
reply to post by Serdgiam
 

First? We need to give up this notion that things are beyond the point where we can fix it.


I agree. I notice a massive increase in fatalism, but perhaps this is because no actual solutions are offered. I think many recognize there are issues, bad issues... But I think societally, we wait for "others" to fix it.


Second? We need to decide what sort of person/persons we need in office. Find 'em. Put 'em there. This is where it's going to be difficult, and contentious.


I think this might be where we disagree a bit, but perhaps not in the way you think..


My thoughts on the matter of what sort of person is this... One who is able to say no, to his/her party when it becomes necessary to serve his/her constituency (us). One who is able to say no, to the special interests who will be trying to buy his/her vote. They're out there, but most/many aren't willing to put up with the drama that will be their lives if they enter the political arena. That's our job, too... Convincing these people that they're needed. Maybe the toughest part of the job.


I think this solution WOULD ABSOLUTELY WORK, for one term, if that. That said, you point out one of the most obvious issues in the "playfield." But, does this stem from the individuals elected, or from the society that they grew up in?

Its my belief that its the society, or our cultural story. I wont go too far OT in your thread, but all of the threads in my signature are pointing towards solutions to this very real problem, as well as addressing what some of the root issues might be. I think the problem you point out (essentially corruption), is more of a symptom of a larger societal issue. And that is that "profit" is best acheived through numbers in a bank account. This is done explicitly through creating systems that regulate, control, and create dependence in individuals. And those individuals (meaning, us) all take part in that system as well. We do not create systems with empowerment and independence in mind.

Much like the time surrounding the constitution, I think we are at a time where we need to use what we have learned to add more onto our "foundation" as a nation.

If you are actually serious about this issue, please read through my threads. Its not a plug, they are intended to be a "different" kind of discussion. Ones where we are working together as a collaborative effort, and not just to prove things right or wrong. I look at them as "open source" conversations, but I dont think many people want to take part in the change themselves. The dependence society we have created tells us to "wait for others to do it."

Breaking past that self-imposed wall, and fixing these issues are well within our reach. That doesnt mean it will be easy, but WE CAN FIX IT. We just need to actually try/



posted on Oct, 8 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by ThichHeaded
 


It wont matter what Movie you watch. People will fight you to their Death if you try to take their chacles of.
People wouldnt have a Clue on what to do if they came of.

Every american will fight for their own personal idea of what they think they have of a Democracy.

No one will ever admit that we a have a democraticly elected dictatorship. Because that would make us look like fools.



posted on Oct, 9 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


You've peaked my curiosity, I admit. I'll give those threads a looksee...

Why only one term, if that? I should think a person of integrity would take a bit longer than that to be corrupted by an environment that is inherently corrupting... That's where we, as involved/concerned citizens come in, or should anyway... We are the ones who have to keep 'em honest, or replace 'em. They are our employees, we aren't their subjects. It's time and past for us to realize that, and make them realize it, as well.



posted on Oct, 9 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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seagull
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


You've peaked my curiosity, I admit. I'll give those threads a looksee...


Im glad
I am doing everything I can, but as I think both of us know, this isnt going to be fixed by just one individual, or even a couple. It will take the cooperation of the majority.


Why only one term, if that? I should think a person of integrity would take a bit longer than that to be corrupted by an environment that is inherently corrupting... That's where we, as involved/concerned citizens come in, or should anyway... We are the ones who have to keep 'em honest, or replace 'em. They are our employees, we aren't their subjects. It's time and past for us to realize that, and make them realize it, as well.


Well, it is my opinion that it isnt the people in power that are *the* problem, they are only a symptom. Meaning we have a society which encourages their behavior, they just happen to be in a position to abuse it. Perhaps it is cynical, but I feel that if you put any given person into those positions (that came from the same society), would be susceptible to the same million dollar deals that politicians are. I see a lot of blame being slung around, but I feel the blame falls on all of us for creating a society where this happens.

Basically, I blame citizens (including myself) just as much as politicians for the position we are in. However, I think that we can create a society, or cultural story, that realizes what can lead to "true profit," and it isnt through individual bank accounts. So, it is our society which is to blame and the politicians are only in a position to clearly show what is wrong with the way we go about so many things.



posted on Oct, 9 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


We are in total agreement it seems.

It isn't just the politicians. It those of us who meekly acquiesce to the status quo by returning the same incompetent buffoons time and time again, to Washington DC, or to the state capital. Or London. Or Ottawa. While hardly a symptom unique to the United States, it's reached it's apex, or is it nadir, here seemingly.

Now it's up to you and I, not to mention others of like mind; to actually get down to brass tacks and do something about it.

The problem as you've pointed out is that it's not something that's repairable overnight. It may even be generational. Given the attention span of the American voter? That doesn't bode well, does it?

But...

Nothing will change if we don't, at the very least, try.



posted on Oct, 9 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


It does seem we are agreement


And as you say, we need to try. I see lots of calls for others to essentially "pull their head out of their ass," but no one is doing it for themselves. Meaning, not many are going to do it period!

However, I think that we can do all of this with the systems in place. I firmly believe that. Because I do not feel it is the tools we have (government, funding, technology, etc) that are the issue, but how we use them.

We all tend to create systems that create dependence amongst individuals, what if we were to do the opposite? What if we were to create systems that enabled and empowered individuals?

I believe it will not only lead to a significantly higher quality of life for even the greediest, but it would essentially be the start of a new renaissance. I could never live with myself if I didnt try my absolute best to show how to do it. But, I am only one person. I do have a lot of ideas and inventions, but its up to each and every person *how* they are used. As a nation, as a total system, we are only as strong as our weakest link. Why are we making those links even weaker?

I think its time to stop blaming the tools, and start learning how we can use them differently and how to make them available to everyone in our nation.
edit on 9-10-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)





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