October 13 incoming Fatima consecration of pope Francis

2012newstart
But then it means Russia is consecrated in 1984. Where is the era of peace?

I've gone over it a dozen times ... I'm not seeing a problem with the consecration.
If anything, I think the pope went above and beyond what was asked.
So I don't know where the problem is. I don't know where the 'era of peace' is.

Either the consecration wasn't correct (and I"m not seeing that) ...
OR Mary never asked for it or promised peace (not likely IMHO) ...
OR the consecration came late instead of right away so it's taking longer (could be)
OR _________ (fill in something I haven't thought of)

It's a mystery.

reply to post by FlyersFan

"OR Mary never asked for it or promised peace (not likely IMHO)"
I already mentioned that possibility in another thread. We will know only when all files of Fatima are open.

The other possibility you mentioned about prolonged delay in time was not something I believed or expected, but it seems the one that materializes in real life.

BTW Spiritdaily just posted the awaited Fatima article. There is little I can't agree with him. He quotes largely other people including less known seers. Seems they/he accept the reality of a very changed Russia and even her leader(s) who kiss shrines and call for no abortions.

Back to Chastisement issue. If the above all is true or in a process of realization, then we should expect a rather positive role of Russia during the Chastisement. I will not repeat old posts again and again. Because tomorrow we may have a good proposal by Russia let say agreed with USA this time, and blessed by the pope, that avoids or lessens Chastisement somehow (see my previous posts). Then the protestants will say: this is the antichrist aided by the false prophet. The catholic and orthodox fanatics will join the chorus. And will be punished by themselves as a result.

I will raise one more question. Where are the missing tribes of jews? Is it possible some of them to be "lost" in Russia? Therefore the importance Our Lady puts on her. It is the jews conversion sought in the gospel. Russia definitely exists at the end of the chastisement because Our Lady said so. It is not equal for all other countries. So perhaps, Russia will save some more together with herself. I think the same is applicable for America to certain degree, having in mind America is an immigration nation. Other apparitions play a role there.

If the pope consecrates Russia by name, Putin will become the most popular politician among the billion wide catholic church. he already build up his image as a very religious man, certainly more religious than the West European counterparts many of whom are enlisted in the catholic church but are not practicing.

You may read Spiritdaily today's article that covers all of the question of Russia's recent conversion to Christianity and personally Putin, in a review of people's testimonies and more, INDICATIONS OF CHASTISEMENT HAVE FROM EVERYDAY PEOPLE AS WELL AS FROM SEERS AT SITES LIKE FATIMA www.spiritdaily.com...

What more should be said? If Putin has agreed to the pope's prayer, surely it is a big advantage for both of them. Pope Francis will be the first roman pope to get deeper involved into the Orthodoxy especially Russia after 1054 schism. Many popes before him tried and failed, including John 23 and JP2. Failed, in terms of they never really touched inside the Russian Orthodox life. Their roman catholic actions on Russian territory meet hostile feelings of making proselytism on Russian christian soil. Let alone any re-unification. The advantage for Francis is obvious if he makes a breakthrough now.

The most devote catholics will start looking for miracles from Russia. And here is the biggest advantage of Putin. He may present such miracles. he is already converted in faith person and does not need personal re-conversion. But he may propose anything of the ideas that we imagine or not. I tried to mention some in previous posts. They will be in the name of Christianity and humanity at the time of cataclysm of planetary extend. Let remember the Japanese were offered lands in the Far East after the tsunami. They refused. Putin could open underground cities, could organize rescue mission for millions, may be hundreds of millions, may be billion people. Not necessarily alone. Aided by world leaders. And aided by the ET who still stay in shadow. They are well known to all politicians and to Vatican itself. And they are not only one entity (Grey) rather a variety of human looking ET from nearby planets.( The talk how they were created there is a long talk. Let concentrate on here and now. They are seen by Eisenhower and card. McIntyre and that is enough proof.) Why not to save human race instead of waiting all to die and God to distinguish the good from the bad in heaven and hell as in the middle centuries practice showed? Francis and Putin are above that. I hope they will make it happen. With the help of all the rest, including president Obama.

The biggest opposition to the above scenario are so called protestants/evangelical Bible preachers who search for a antichrist to fulfill their pre-mediated schemes of End times. Also some fundamental catholics and orthodox. Some hardline catholics already called Francis false pope, although there were zero doubts about the conclave. (to be false pope or anti pope there should be troubles in the election process, split of votes etc things known from history. Nothing like that happened). A situation where pope Francis extends hand to Russia and her leader Putin, especially if that results in something above the mental capabilities of the above mentioned groups, will certainly result in throwing all bad at those two men and all who support them.

It is not that bad though. The ultra conservative groups are not that many. They are vocal on internet but they do not represent any majority in any Christian church. It will be good indeed if more in number and education catholics realize the absurdity of the above statements and accusations towards people who have done nothing to deserve or even close on those characteristics. And to tell the others. To be apostles in our times. Not to repeat false interpretations of Gospel and prophets that End times are here and now. It has been heard throughout the history in every age. Today is nothing new. Notice most catholic seers do not touch the question of the end times. Some do, and they are quite much false. Examine them. They contradict themselves, their own statements contradict each other.

This is th ebiggest trial of spiritual character until now, because you don't have an End time situation. At the same time you have people who speak that. And once the ET appear those people will say here is the great delusion. This is the only way God provides for the salvation of humankind for the next generations. As in the time of Noah. It is written in one place in the Gospel, namely 2 Peter. He doesn't speak of the coming of Jesus. He speaks of fire that will engulf the entire planet earth, while the righteous people wil be taken to a new earth and new heaven (use the word sky). It is not the end of the world. It is the end of planet earth for the time being. Because on Armageddon Jesus COMES and SETS FOOT on planet Earth. Not in 2 Peter. In the Final judgment we have change of physical laws of the universe, including change of entropy (process of energy/information exchange equal to biological ageing and death) and death itself. You don't have exchange of one planet earth to a new planet. You have total change of physics laws and change in all galaxies and stars. I don't see it anywhere near if the Universe could have only 13 - 17 bln of age. See Uriel. Much more, the trillions stars and their inhabitants may have never had the chance to hear about the Son of God - the word of God incarnate on Earth. Shall our narrow human models of "end times" deny that possibility to the vast universe? It is one sided, funny, childish. It may turn to be pity for our next generations if we are lured today by the demon to deny the way of salvation. He who knows perfect theology as well.

Pls develop these thoughts if you find anything valuable, or just save them. Internet is not forever, it will stop first.

There is one even more frightening possibility. Those who want to live in the End times, to be allowed that and left behind in a closed space-time curved earth (something like a back hole) with fixed time duration 3.5 y. I'd really wish to encourage you to learn the basics of the physics that is not new, 100 years old. You may start from Einstein in popular language, or if it is too hard for you then start from Hawking who presents the things even easier. Or listen to professor Michio Kaku, all on youtube.

The phisics not only doesn't forbid such things. It says such regions actually exist around the black holes and other exotic objects in our Universe. In other words, those blessed people who escape on time will be those who will live the era of peace for thousands of years and will give birth to thousands of new generations for as long as the duration of the entire Universe lasts, set by God himself. In contrast, the group of self-imprisoned people inside the earth's black hole (for lack of better term) will have during all that time outside, only the terrible nightmare of 3.5 shrinked years persecutions. Moreover, time-related phenomena are not excluded in a closed curve of space-time. I will not enter into details, please read them. It will be nightmare much worse than a linear time period 2010 - 2013 if we assume it was the tribulation. The living will envy the dead but the death will run away from them as the Revelation says.

Notice the entire structure of the Revelation is cyclical, 3x7 or 4x7 and many prominent scholars examine AT LEAST TWO timelines, one of heaven and one of earth.

I will stop here. You have to start from somewhere the journey into the reality you live in. You don't live in Newtonian world where the ground under your feet is the only stable thing that the apples fall upon. Get away from that model ASAP. I write that for all the readers, before and after the consecration on Sunday, not only for the people who responded to me. Actually those people do not need such lessons. It is a shame we still can hear a catholic priest quite famous and good otherwise, who would tell the world that the Newtonian laws of planets around the sun were so good designed by God..., and at once "they told us there were aliens" who messed those laws everything up. I suggest that priest and the one who told him to preach like that should see at least one sci-fi movie and read at least one popular science book of scientist after Einstein before talking medieval lessons to the entire catholic world watching on a prominent catholic TV station. Only the earth is changed with the sun in that model, only that is different from Galileo time. Shame. Hope they correct themselves ASAP. Hope the Vatican Jesuits make some lessons for the bishops, to know the Earth they are walking on is not medieval 2D flat but in fact 4D. 3D plus time and that the time flows in one direction (possibly two) as equal to the other 3D thus making all Eisntein's "tricks" possible. And if there is a big object nearby (of the magnitude of a black hole or so, here we may speculate what constitutes a massive object and could a smaller object play similar role) many of the impossible things now will become instantaneously possible and real. Let the Vatican astronomers teach the Vatican priests and cardinals first! It is a shame if they don't know elemental things that a 10 year old watcher of Discovery and History channels knows quite well. Besides the sci-fi that teaches the youngsters many other things incomprehensible for the older minds. Sorry but this is it. I hope the younger generation will be saved regardless of what the older generation will preach tomorrow.

FARSIDE ERUPTION: An active region located just behind the sun's northeastern limb erupted this morning, producing an X-ray flash that registered M1.5 on the Richter Scale of Solar Flares -- despite the fact that it was partially eclipsed by the edge of the sun. The true intensity of the flare was much greater, possibly X-class. The explosion also hurled a spectacular CME into space:

spaceweather.com...
GIF movie spaceweather.com...

worldwide Rosary announced in the eve of consecration, 7 PM Rome time. Watch on EWTN:

"INTERNATIONAL ROSARY VIGIL FROM SHRINES AROUND THE WORLD
From Nazareth to Washington, Catholic shrines across the globe participating in the White Night of Prayer recite the Mysteries of the Holy Rosary"

Huffington post suggests silent agreement of Putin is obtained for mentioning Russia. www.huffingtonpost.com...

I don't know if this is the real case. However Putin will only win from the formal mentioning of Russia in the consecration prayer. being devote orthodox christian, he doesn't have a problem for himself to convert to anywhere (as for ex. Berlusconi would have). Instead, the nation of Russia will be formally labeled "consecrated and converted". The informal, real work is already done. Refer to numerous articles on that subject, Spiritdaily being the last one. "Christ the Savior" the new golden cathedral of Moscow was rebuilt during Yeltsin rule on the empty ground that remained of the old cathedral demolished by Stalin (notice by Stalin, not by later leaders that stopped demolishing churches). Nobody paid attention except for very few people, like the popes too. We have a conversion to Christian faith in Russia UNSEEN in the West in the last decades. Instead the West grew farther and farther from the religious practices and ultimately from God. So, Russia will only win of a formal recognition of 2 decades efforts by mentioning explicitly "Russia" in the consecration tomorrow.

October 13 starts with a M1 solar flare on the earth's side, with chance of new flares in next hours spaceweather.com...
Keep in touch with the astronomical sources. While most people concentrate whether or not the pope will mention the magic word "Russia" in his prayer 2 h later, they forget that the final apparition of October 13 actually do not deal with Russia but with the sun. All Russian part of the text is said on July 13, including the so called third secret. On October 13 other things should have been said. The people see the sun dancing and falling. Today we know the solar flare could reach us although the sun may not literally fall. If it does, it should increase size something not impossible although not expected now by mainstream science. Instead, alternative scientists propose the existence of a Brown dwarf star binary companion of our sun that travels on elongated orbit. Once close to us it could draw much stronger flares from the sun due its enormous gravity. Will it be the physical realization of the solar miracle-vision on October 13, or something else?

Who can help if a major cataclysm is on the way? The angels. Call them the ET. and the countries they already reside. Some say deep underwater bases too. Break with taboos and look at the reality aided (not restricted in fear) by the faith.

reply to post by 2012newstart


Ok not Catholic kinda lost... what are u all talking about the third secret was released years ago

Here, Vatican Youtube to watch live....

I think the Holy Mass begins 3:30 a.m. (central) our time.

www.youtube.com...

God's grace for sure will come down in consecrating the "world" but the Blessed Mother asked "Russia" specifically to be consecrated and it has not been done yet. Pretty obvious, where is the fruit if the consecration was done correctly?

Most holy Mary pray for us.

colbe
Here, Vatican Youtube to watch live....

I think the Holy Mass begins 3:30 a.m. (central) our time.

www.youtube.com...

A beautiful day, the Mass is outdoors in St. Peter's square.

The pope did what he could do.

It remains the ET to save us from the coming doom.

Second Coming is after millenia, if you prefer to wait it.

gnosticagnostic
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

Ok not Catholic kinda lost... what are u all talking about the third secret was released years ago

The 2000 official release of a VISION with a different handwriting of Lucia (discussed already) is AT BEST a part of the secret text.

The so called 3rd secret is not a VISIOn it is a STORY text told by Mary on July 13, 1917. The released vision allegedly was given on another date, I think Oct 13 but I am not sure. Even if all questions about Lucia's ID and different handwritings are resolved, still we don't have the MISSING PORTION of July 13, 1917 text that speaks about Russia. It is inside the "second part" and before the words: "At the end my immaculate heart will triumph...". Am I clear enough for the Catholics who KNOW Fatima texts in detail?

"Neues Europa" is the piece of text that nears most the missing part, although it does not represent it fully. Cardinal Ottaviani said it is close enough and it should be printed in 10 thousand, 20 thousand, 30 thousand copies (no internet then). Pope JP2 in Fulda spoke before German bishops close enough ,too. Finaly, Mgr Balducci (the same who talked about ET), published "Neues Europa" in OSservatore Romano in 1978. If it is not enough for the honest searcher of the truth, I don't know what could be. We don't have official release of the REAL 3rd part told on July 13. Even in case the released 2000 y vision of persecution is 100% accurate. Something I doubt, with all that secrecy shrouding the full truth.

Today was a great day of prayer. Not a day of release further truths. I will put to rest the question of Russia since may be I wrote most of all in this thread. Pls go back and read, also in other threads. I don't want to repeat basic things for people who just pop up to ask questions that have been discussed in detail. Pls do your homework as well.

God bless you all! I think we are done with that day, and in expectation of something new to befall the world, pretty soon. good or bad, depends on your choice.

colbe
God's grace for sure will come down in consecrating the "world" but the Blessed Mother asked "Russia" specifically to be consecrated and it has not been done yet.

Russia is part of the world. It has been consecrated.
This is basic set/subset stuff we all learned in 4th grade.

Example .. dogs are a subset of animals and if someone blesses all the animals then dogs are included in that blessing.

As to 'where are the fruits of the blessing' .... like was speculated on .. the blessing was rather LATE and therefore the effects may be late as well .. or lessened ... or because it didn't happen when it was supposed to, then there will be minimal effects. Or ... the church got it wrong and there was no message to consecrate Russia.

But Russia absolutely has been consecrated.
There is no question about it.

Russia first of all is Christian for 1000+ years. A fact that many sideline as something inconvenient. Russia helped save Christendom on several occasions in history from non-Christian invaders from the East.

Then, IF OL indeed asked for such a consecration, (we can be sure only after the revelation of all texts connected to Fatima), then I would probably join the view of Flyers above. Perhaps the question is not "either or", as we are made to think. Perhaps it is accepted by OL.
Furthermore, perhaps there is some secret about Russia herself. As for example Jewish heritage.
Whatever it was, for now Russia is not a communist country and that new status quo continues already 2 decades. One entire new generation has been born and grown up. Not to notice that fact? Have you been to Russia? You'd better go! Listen to these young singers on youtube and realize the generation that now lives in Russia is not the generation you think about. As the Germans today are not Nazi.

Then, we enter exponentially in a situation when the whole planet is/will be affected soon by solar, planetary, asteroid and other threats. The ET question discussed by me and others in other threads, will loom at one moment to the surprise of many people who continue to live as it doesn't exist. (It does since Bible's beginning). We witness financial system crashes as we speak (Oct 16) that coincides with that. In such a situation, it would be wise to ask who would provide rescue for the millions of population (Christian) or bilions others.

We see nations as Russia who build up underground and announce it on their media (RT reported of 5000 bunkers in Moscow alone). We see nations who build up shelters and then leak the info unofficially (USA with all youtube interviews, if you care to know). We see nations who have the capability to prepare but who keep silence (China, others). Why that preparation, what is coming?

As believers in Fatima and other apparitions we have the advantage to know quite a bit from the future. Even if we don't know the exact cause of the disaster we know it is coming in our lifespan.

From that point of view, it is wise we care for those who wil offer salvation and rescue on physical level. (pls do not mess the spiritual here, yes we know whoever dies in grace saves his soul in the kingdom of God). Imo Russia is one of the countries that will do so. That explains the special place of care and prayer for that country in many apparitions. Some say, Russia will glorify God most of all countries (Medjugorje I think). Imo ET will be involved, those who are good. Whether or not the full Fatima talks about that, perhaps one day we will be told. But honestly, does it matter? Will it matter at that moment and afterwards that you will be told, yes Fatima said that? It matters you and me to be ready and accept the life boat sent ultimately by God thru someone imperfect. May be thru US emergency services, may be thru the Russian. I am sorry we are unable and unprepared to discuss that direction more, for lack of knowledge but also for lack of willingness and for fear of saying something that is not "catholic". What is "catholic" then? Catholic in greek means Universal. Be universal in your minds, dear brothers and sisters in Christ.

With the probable US default only after days we all will be in a completely different situation. I don't know of course how history will take shape in one week or year. But it is logical many of the things discussed to take place in one or another sequence. May be not as I think today. In 1947 our fathers didn't imagine what will come out of von Brown's rocketry, probably they didn't know him by name and few of them knew the principles he works on. (they come from Newton's physics). Equally, we were not told of the internet, of the stealth, and of a number of newer things to come. Today we cannot imagine a world without internet and mobile phones. Only 20-30 years ago at the time we discused 1984 those were virtually non existent for the people. Today many devote people are tempted to say either "impossible" or "from the devil" on everything newer that goes out of their minds. If they think honestly to themselves, they do not comprehend fully how a microchip works int he computer or in the TV. Will they say equally "from the devil, because it could potentially be the mark of the beast"? Will they never fly on a jet plane because the same principle is used for ICBM to fly? (in most general terms).

I think we should be widely open for the new chapter of humanity. May be Our Lady has talked about it in Fatima. 1960 year is mentioned because the people wouldn't understand before that. I don't want to make this thread a UFO thread and may be most of you will not participate. And I myself reach a boundary of my capabilities to maintain the pace in a forum like that. Perhaps we all reach the boundary of our own efforts. We have to wait for the new to come. Blessed by Our Lady who could visit any other planet during those 1900+ years She is with a resurrected body in heaven. Think about it!

There is a danger of demonziation of the new and unknown. Some unproven apparitions, banned apparitions talk about that. Be sure you don't be in a group of people with closed minds who follow false prophets. I wil not mention them, they are in the past as well as today. It is a pity they are accepted as the last word of heaven. They do not stand the logical test, let alone the church approval. I know of many devote people who are sucked into those black holes and have no way to go out because they don't want to go out anymore. You will know a false prophet if he/she says you will go to hell if you don't follow him/her. If he/she calls other apparitions to be from the devil, while his/her apparition is not approved itself. (therefore the option exists to be from the devil, yes?). The tricks are too many to be described online. I myself followed some of them and had bitter disappointments in time. In short, those "seers" wil demonize everything and evryone that stands on their way. And their way is a dead end. This is the "catholic" input to the "protestant" end time doomers who work with Bible interpretations alone. Sadly, many people go that way.

Fatima cannot be farther from those ways. Our Lady points at the danger (including secret texts as Neues Europa) and gives the way out (My Immaculate Heart will triumph) from what we already know. We should be told everything indeed. All those "secrets" in apparitions that are so close to formal approval. Perhaps they speak of the things like new planets for humanity and other humanity like Enoch that lives over there. Perhaps the faithful are too much in the old days and just cannot comprehend that. if they are told plainly they will imagine a demon instead of a rescue way. It is too pity. WHo made that great delusion that the rescue way of God should be called devil's? I don't really know who first started that trend. It wasn't so in old days when a rescuer of the Christendom was named a saint. Like the Russian Christian princes in history, as well as their Western counterparts. A person/s who offer salvation to God's people of a Christian nation(s) should be honored and in many cases those are holy men (women). Not called antichrists. What we have today is a reversed image, distorted image of what is holy. Pity so many people who consider themselves devote buy into that delusion. Good there is a new generation in the East and in the West that will not buy into that delusion prepared for our times. You can't keep the holiness into the stupidity and insanity and pretend you follow God's ways. No they aren't that. They are quite higher. Higher than my imagination too. But surely higher than the imagination of people who would need medicines at one point.

The world is Gods creation therefore everything and everyone and every country already is consecrated, God does not need a man to do this for him. The word "consecration" literally means "to associate with the sacred", creation is already sacred by default.

We can shine our light on God and find our salvation within him, we do not need a religion to do this, however some help facilitate our paths to do this.

It won't be a faith or a religion or a belief or money or a tunnel that will save you during the tribulation, it will be what is in your heart.

In a nut shell notwhere you are but what you are.

reply to post by oxford


it is not proven we are in the tribulation or end times.
protestants and some fundamental catholics and orthodox try hard to prove it. But look at church's history. Caliphate at the time was the best candidate for the beast. Let alone Nero. None of them happened to be in historic perspective. Neither Hitler nor Stalin. Our views are limited to generally 1-3 generations. It will be wrong we think this is it, only because the crisis is here. There were worse crises even within the last 3 generations (your grandparents' stories).

One big argument we are not in the end times is the lack of christianization everywhere even on the surface of such a small planet like planet Earth. 1 in 3 is Christian and only 1 in 6 is Catholic. Or less. At the same time, almost 1 in 3 is Muslim, and 1 in 3 is Chinese or Indian some kind of buddhist. Is this the promised by Jesus gospel to be spread in the whole world? I further question that the mandate of Jesus includes OTHER PLANETS as well. Al of them who haven't heard of it. SOme have heard of it and serve already God, or rejected it (angels and demons). OK prove me wrong on that. In anyway we don't have the sign that Jesus said will precede His coming (and the trib). Some say, during the trib the gospel will be spread. Very low probability. I wouldn't bet on those theories.

Another question is where are the Jews. Find them before expect second coming of Jesus. They are the key according to Paul's writings. Or we sideline Paul's letters completely as part of the Gospel. With Paul or without? Esdras in his last chapters of 2 Esdras has some words of the lost tribes. But it is hard to interpret Esdras. First I invite you to READ HIM.