If you do not allow us to raise the debt ceiling you will not get your SS check says Obama

Yeah folks, we Americans are broke. Maybe the almost 17 trillion dollar debt didn't already tell you that.

It's all thanks to borrowing money we wouldn't be able to pay back. And having a PRIVATE bank create our dollars, with interest tacked on does not help one bit. And then this money is given to banks, who then loan that money out with even more interest tacked on. And a huge amount of debt ends up circulating around.

Why do you think our revolution started in the first place? Sure the war was started because of taxation without representation, and overall we were being treated unfairly. But there was another problem lurking under the surface, a bigger problem.

The colonies were quite prosperous, and England wanted that wealth, after all, we were apart of them.The colonists wanted to be able to print their own money. But England would not allow them to. They ended up passing the currency act which forbid colonist to create their own currency. And this became a prime reason as to why our revolution came to be.

So, in a sense we were fighting against bankers. Since overall, the whole reason the war was fought boils down to money. We did not want to be taxed unfairly, and we wanted to create our own money and be independent.

We kept up the good fight until private bankers finally got their way, and setup the federal reserve bank in 1913. And also the IRS was born in 1913 under the presidency of Woodrow Wilson. I'm sure we all love the IRS.

So I'm really not surprised we're on the brink of collapse monetary wise. That is what this system pretty much will always end up in. A select few bankers make insane amounts of money, and all they have to do is print some money with fancy ink on it. And our government has no power over them whatsoever. Not a single government agency is permitted to go inside, impose laws, etc.

And in the mean time, debt keeps pilling up. And there is much, much, much, more debt than there is money. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that an incredible amount of debt created from thin air will eventually end very badly.

Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

It's not a bluff. This has been said each time the debt ceiling has to be raised, it always comes with an explanation of what defaulting translates into. Defaulting isn't an option, unless you prefer catastrophe to more debt. Changing the way we do business so that we don't have to keep raising the debt ceiling, yes we very much need to figure that out, but until we do... we raise it or collapse.

Maybe it's just time to declare this experiment named USA, a failure and survive or die as individuals...let the world move on without us. Honestly at this point, I'm so disgusted and discouraged with us and all the pettiness and dishonesty... I'm tired of fighting, if I could afford to, I would expatriate and only weep for what could have been but never was. The GOP makes me vomit, the Democrats so queasy I want to vomit just to relieve it, the elected Tea Party makes me see red to the point I fear if face to face I would end up in indefinite detention and the ignorance of the masses just makes me depressed.

You do not understand, the point of paying back the debt is past. Yes, you are going to default, all that is left is how far do you want to kick the can down the road before it happens. So do you want to do it now with 16 trillion, or would you prefer it a few years later with countless trillions added?

America (and the rest of the world) IS going to feel the pain. Austerity at levels we are not used to is coming, it is especially going to be painful to those who feel they are ENTITLED to be taken care of.


Every time the debt ceiling is increased it means the government has failed in its job. They are spending beyond their means. (74 times since March 1962 - So tell me when will the US government finally change the way they do business?)

okyouwin

sulaw
Scare tactics!!! Got them??

I'm 31yrs old now, honestly with the way the state of the economy is. I don't expect there to be SS when I become of age... If the state of the economy hasn't already collapsed or whatever you want to say~

Well that's the problem. You young guys give up to easy. Social Security is a darn good program. Sitting aside a portion of earnings provides a living when the living ain't easy. We all get old. So it's good in this respect.

The one thing, besides the obvious what happens to granny?, is the effects that come from the withdrawal of this huge amount of money from the economy.

Social Security is a good idea and a good program. Don't give up on it.

No, it is NOT A GOOD PROGRAM.

Why should the government get involved in that? How about letting me use my money to plan for my own retirement. Social security is just another tax - it is a ponzy scheme and I to am in my thirties and I know I won't see a dime of it.

(but I guess when you say you youngsters I guess you are getting social security right now and don't want us to stop paying into it so you can keep on getting yours)

How many billionaires in America? All got rich on the sweat of the ordinary people.
Maybe its time that those elites put their hands in their pockets and gave something back.
Too many people get wealthy on the work of others, this is a worldwide dilemma.
if you dont contribute, dont take. Basically pigs noses out of the trough time, you guys are fat enough.
Economics shouldn't be that complicated, a fair days work for a fair days pay.
Too many people enjoy their wealth while doing jack squat.
This needs to change.

Daedalus

Uniceft17
It's just you I guess? I didn't hear any threat, I heard a plain explanation of the facts, no money means no government benefits. Obama actually speaks the plain and simple truth for once, why is that stupid?

it was a threat...because it sure as hell wasn't truth.

Actually what I said and what he said is nothing but the truth. You said so yourself.

truth would be "well, when we hit the debt ceiling, we won't be able to send out social security checks anymore,

I do believe that is what Obama said? So you say he's threatening the elderly by stating the truth, then you say the truth would have been to say the above, which is what Obama said, so now your agreeing with him and me? Dude, do you even know what you are saying? lol

because we in the government, stole all that money a long time ago....we've been paying you out of the petty cash box full of funny money....so if we hit the debt ceiling, you're just as f**ked as we are. be sure to call your congressman.."

Your right about that, but that was a VERY VERY long time ago, there isn't a politician in office today that was around when we switched to Fiat Currency. And when you say "we" I'm sure your talking about the Federal Reserve and the Banksters, Right? If not maybe you should do some research.

you really should get your facts straight, before you defend the man..

I wasn't aware I was defending anyone, I was defending the truth, so get your facts straight and do some research. First you said that Obama was threatening the elderly and lying, I said no he wasn't because it's pretty much the truth, plain and simple, then you say and I'm paraphrasing "Truth would be that when we hit the debt ceiling, run out of money and default we won't be able to send out SS checks anymore." Which is basically agreeing with what Obama said, lol. So which is it? Is he lying, is he telling the truth or is he threatening people? You sound very confused, sir. And the POTUS can't exactly make a threat over the debt ceiling when it's out of his hands, only Congress can draft and pass a bill to raise the debt, all Obama does is put his signature on it, so even if it was a 'threat' as you say (it wasn't), it wouldn't hold very much weight.

And if you feel inclined click on my username link to the left side, I've been here for seven years and you might find out that when you read my previous posts and threads that I am quite unbiased, the majority of ATS members from when I joined were for the most part unbiased and we would speak and defend the truth wherever we saw it, even if we didn't like the person. Why is that? Because it's the right thing to do, I may not like Obama but I'm not so blinded with hate to the point where I have to demonize everything that comes out of the mans mouth. And if you think Obama has really been in control the past 5 years maybe you should take a look at the history of the Executive/Legislative/Judicial branches and what they have been up to for the past 40 to 50 years, the last time we DIDN'T have a puppet in office was probably when JFK was POTUS.

ATS folks these days are so angry, so biased and so uncompromising that they can't give credit where credit is due and can't see past the person they hate to see what is really going on, it looks like the extreme polarity of the two US Political parties has infected A LOT of ATS members, years ago I never would have thought it possible, especially on a website like this where the motto is to "DENY IGNORANCE" and wake up and realize the truth, even if you don't like it or agree with it. But then again I remember why I haven't posted on here in years, it's because people like you are set in there ways and aren't interested in the truth, all your interested in is your own biased views. You've been on here since 2004 and still spout rubbish, I guess some people just can't absorb knowledge.

grey580
reply to post by matafuchs

 

Is it me or did Obama just threaten the largest section of registered voters in the USA?

IS HE STUPID?

Don't answer that.

Is it me or are the republicans basically saying, "If you dont let us repeal healthcare, we will shut the govt down, and quite possibly let the country default"??

Let me ask you a question, if that happens, who will make out better, the billionaires or the paycheck to paycheck worker?

After you answer that question, who is threatening who?

Someone should ask the president, dear sir, if you are so broke THEN WHY were you and your secretary of state john kerry SO EAGER to attack libya and more recently syria? WHY? I mean can any rational person comprehend their line of thinking? It was only about a month ago...

In fact I could ask the turd Bush and Cheney the same questions. Why do a false flag on 9-11 to go to war in afghanistan and iraq, and to bloat the government with DHS???????????????

Are we EVER going to get any accountability in this nation?

People are discussing government programs and if they should be defunded. Surreal! USA spends about 7 times more for national defense than russia and/or china do.

Scrap the damm black budget ufo bull#, stop the wars, and THEN raise the debt ceiling. These pricks are playing everyone for imbeciles because we act like it. They have been getting away with stuff you would only see in rwhanda.

reply to post by AlienScience


Government services will still go out, the SS office have the legal right to keep sending checks regardless because supposedly the money for SS is in an account. But we all know what happen to that account under congress appropriation, congress would not want people to know that.

Now you know very well as an informed and intelligent person that knows constitutional rights that congress can not deprive citizens from basic needs or they will be held in contempt, that is when the supreme court will step in and will spank all of them with constitutional law.

Also remember that US of America has never defaulted in his debt, so this whole pony show of give me what I want or else is going to be over by next week or at least close to the seventeen.

Sadly if the wait after the 15 my husband military retirement will be delayed, but hey at least we are to get it anyway, the same way that now congress is promising retroactive for federal workers that are now at home, for this days, actually they are on pay vacation but with delay.

What that tells you, that all we got for politicians are buffoons, morons and idiots using the people as bargaining tools.

America has no leadership it has a corporate dictatorship.

marg6043

America has no leadership it has a corporate dictatorship.

Yeah but it is a stealthy dictatorship and dificult for uniformed people to see through. Propaganda does miracles on naive people, but only for so long.

Everyone remembers hitler, stalin, assad, mussolini, etc because they did not hide it.

Corporate dictatorships are difficult to expose.

I believe that social security income and social security disability are both mandatory. I came came across that when I was reading what and who's included.

Creply to post by matafuchs

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Interestingly we know that Wall street rules, and who the Federal Reserve serve, conspiracies no so much anymore the faces of the corporate dictatorship has been exposed and they don't care anymore that we the people knows about them.

Johnathanandheather
I believe that social security income and social security disability are both mandatory. I came came across that when I was reading what and who's included.

Creply to post by matafuchs

 

Yes at this phase which is failure to agree on budget resolution. However if the debt cieling is not raised that means PARTIAL DEFAULT on the debt comes into play, which means some people are not going to get interest on their treasury bills, and many government run programs are either going to get axed or payments can be severly delayed until compromises are done.

In the meantime retired people who have eaten up their savings and relly on SS payments will be left in the cold. Charities will need to pick up the slack. I mean its something you might see in third world countries, not in the usa.

I am not sure what republcans are trying to do. Its one thing to offer dissaproval on obama policies and its another thing to extort default on payments. Republicans will lose LOTS of voters if they continue down this path. And I hate democrats just as much because ACA could have waited, and it was the wrong setup to begin with. We dont need mandatory private health insurance. Welfare used to take care of low income earners. It was essentually a bailout for these HMOs because one third of the population could not afford to pay their exorbitant rates. Healthcare and military are the two biggest RACKETS in america where antitrust laws should have applied to break them up and encourage healthy competition. Colleges are also a racket, charging too much.

This country faces many problems, but no serious effort is made, and few care enough. We also have criminal elements within the government involved in insider trading schemes, lobbies bribbing under the table, etc.

marg6043

Now you know very well as an informed and intelligent person that knows constitutional rights that congress can not deprive citizens from basic needs or they will be held in contempt, that is when the supreme court will step in and will spank all of them with constitutional law.

How do we know this will happen? Obama said that SS payments will be made but cannot guarantee
they will be made in a timely fashion. They could be delayed a few days or a month.

I would really hope the supreme court steps in and does something about it. However the mass murdering criminals who did 9-11 are still free. Does this not speak volumes of what kind of government we have?

reply to post by matafuchs


The Senate is mostly Democrats and they are also "the voice of the people." They did not vote for a government shutdown.

The House might be the people's voice as well, but they are mostly Republicans. They DID vote for the shutdown. THEY are the ones responsible.

You can lay the shutdown at the door of the Tea Party wing of the Republican party. Most of the moderate Repubs did not vote for it. They were just in the minority.

And the disagreement is NOT over a balanced budget. The POTUS has also advocated for one and has made recommendations as to where the cuts should fall.

The reason the Republicans have shut down the government is they want Obamacare delayed for another year. They're afraid that when people actually get the benefits of it they will be satisfied with it.

The Republicans are the ones who shut down all the memorials and other government-run services. The President has no say in it.

P.S. I got my Social Security check. They were not stopped.

reply to post by Sestias


Even if you like ACA, which is indeed very controversial, what would be the problem with delaying its implementation for a year? I seriously doubt small business can afford to make healthcare contributions in this prolonged recession.

Democrats are more to blame for this government shutdown than republicans. ACA sucks to put it plain english!

EarthCitizen07

marg6043

Now you know very well as an informed and intelligent person that knows constitutional rights that congress can not deprive citizens from basic needs or they will be held in contempt, that is when the supreme court will step in and will spank all of them with constitutional law.

How do we know this will happen? Obama said that SS payments will be made but cannot guarantee
they will be made in a timely fashion. They could be delayed a few days or a month.

I would really hope the supreme court steps in and does something about it. However the mass murdering criminals who did 9-11 are still free. Does this not speak volumes of what kind of government we have?

I couldn't agree more! Who's to say that the Supreme Court would step in if they do that? I am willing to et everything that they are in the same pockets of those in congress as well AKA the Elite! I'm starting to feel that the greenback has now become above the law and safely that point is proven time and time again.

-BmwSauber

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I believe I posted a link to the truth about SS on shut down, by law the SS checks will have to go out.

That was a safeguard that was implemented to make sure people will no go without basic needs.

Is also in our constitution and congress can be held accountable.

Social Security is safe in a federal shutdown

During the last major shutdown, which lasted about a month starting in late 1995, the Social Security Administration mailed checks throughout the crisis, and a close reading of established law makes clear the agency has the legal authority to do so again.

"I am absolutely sure the checks would be sent out," said John F. Cooney, a partner at law firm Venable who designed shutdown plans for the government while employed at the Office of Management and Budget.

Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban Institute and a trustee of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, backed that view, saying claims that benefits won't be paid are "not true."

The legal case is pretty clear. In 1995, President Clinton's lawyers in the Department of Justice laid out how federal agencies should operate if Congress failed to appropriate funds.

money.cnn.com...

The government is playing with the minds of the people using scaremongering and miss information, Obama has come our and blatantly lie about peoples benefits and shut down, this is just despicable

But what can you say when most Americans are miss informed when it comes to their rights this days, they trust the liar government too much.

reply to post by marg6043


I think you are confusing a normal government shutdown which has happened many times in the past with an economic default which is what will happen if the debt limit is not increased. Right now we are still in the first phase.

October 17 is the deadline to raise the debt limit? Obama said that payments could be sent out late, not mentioning how long the delays would be. In other words they would have to shuffle the payments according to priority to meet demand. Give some here, a little there, then wait till next month and do the same. Like someone who owes you money and you have to wait ffoorreevveerr to get it.

Its true that you cant lose SS payments because its unconstitutional and they would be held accountable.

reply to post by crazyewok


The US economy 'Growing' is a bunch of bovine... propaganda from the government. IT IS NOT GROWING!

What happened is the US government under Clinton changed how Unemployment is figured. No doubt this was done so Americans would not realize how many jobs were going to be exported thanks to the ratification of the World Trade Agreement.

"GOVERNMENT ECONOMIC REPORTS: THINGS YOU'VE SUSPECTED BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK!"

August 24th, 2004

....Up until the Clinton administration, a discouraged worker was one who was willing, able and ready to work but had given up looking because there were no jobs to be had. The Clinton administration dismissed to the non-reporting netherworld about five million discouraged workers who had been so categorized for more than a year. As of July 2004, the less-than-a-year discouraged workers total 504,000. Adding in the netherworld takes the unemployment rate up to about 12.5%.

The Clinton administration also reduced monthly household sampling from 60,000 to about 50,000, eliminating significant surveying in the inner cities. Despite claims of corrective statistical adjustments, reported unemployment among people of color declined sharply, and the piggybacked poverty survey showed a remarkable reversal in decades of worsening poverty trends.....

This jiggery pokery with government statistics really mucked things up for businesses who rely on these statistics. Enter John Williams of Shadow Statistics.

....For 30 years, I have been a private consulting economist and, out of necessity, had to become a specialist in government economic reporting.

One of my early clients was a large manufacturer of commercial airplanes, who had developed an econometric model for predicting revenue passenger miles. The level of revenue passenger miles was their primary sales forecasting tool, and the model was heavily dependent on the GNP (now GDP) as reported by the Department of Commerce. Suddenly, their model stopped working, and they asked me if I could fix it. I realized the GNP numbers were faulty, corrected them for my client (official reporting was similarly revised a couple of years later) and the model worked again, at least for a while, until GNP methodological changes eventually made the underlying data worthless.

That began a lengthy process of exploring the history and nature of economic reporting...
www.shadowstats.com...

The ShadowStat CHART of UNEMPLOYEMENT shows that once the 'discouraged' workers are added in our unemployment level is 22% since 2009 and has continued to increase.

I got into a fight over these numbers in comments at Forbes. One of the writers finally admitted in comments that he worked with the unemployed and the 'discouraged' workers were those 55 to 65 who were 'Forced' into retirement or high paid technical types whose jobs are now going to cheap H1b visa immigrants and reasonable jobs in their field are no longer available. Both categories are not 'Counted' as unemployed by the government nor are the people with Phd's now working at McDonald's or the new graduates who can not find a job.