If you do not allow us to raise the debt ceiling you will not get your SS check says Obama

reply to post by matafuchs

The US is broke and the news is trickling out...I feel that is why this does not feel like a typical shutdown.

It's obvious that this whole shutdown fiasco has been more about the debt ceiling than anything else since it began. And it's also very obvious that if the debt ceiling isn't raised then the US is in for big trouble very soon. But the question is how far can it be raised? Why don't they stop beating around the bush and just admit the debt ceiling must be infinite because they will continue to keep raising it.

Class action suit to recover the promised funds.

Make the fed sell off assets to pay the bills.

Hey China, want a shiny stone wall? Only one billion dollars!

It's not like we're using these things anyway. They're all closed off and if you're caught peeking through the fence bars some park ranger will gouge your eyes out.

When do we get to call his bluff?

reply to post by matafuchs


Scaring old people is a great tactic the Left has been using for years. Unfortunately for them the baby boomers are much brighter than their parents. This usefulness of this tactic is starting to wear off. the best thing for the United States would be for the Government to be shut down for about another 5-7 months. They should only be allowed to work when the tax money is in and they have money to blow. When it runs out they shut the doors.

V

reply to post by matafuchs

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

If anyone has paid attention to my posts, I don't approve of Obama in any way.

But to be fair, he said they won't go out... ON TIME. And he stated it twice, that they won't go out ON TIME. Not that they won't go out at all.

That would seem to make quite a difference, no?

OR everyone can simply ignore he used those two littles words, twice, which seems to be the popular decision.

reply to post by charles1952


Well, I will say this in my defense...lol

I've said from the start that if this is about going all the way, then I'm honestly not kidding about saying it's inevitable and may as well get on with it. Sooner than later.

Math wise, there is no way out anymore. There is no 'solution'. Nothing the people we see at any level of current serving office will deal with or even consider in a serious way. So, if it's to really go to total collapse.... I don't welcome it, but I'm not unprepared for the reality of it.

Anyone who has been watching the economics of debt build now since 07 should have steadily been seeing collapse as a question of time, not outcome.

Now having said that? If this IS NOT about going 100% ALL the way into collapse for rebuilding out of what WILL be ashes both figuratively and physically by that point I fear, then it's just throwing the US into longer term suffering and kinda flopping around like a fish on a sunny dock. That, for nothing.

Fix it or let it fall as honestly should have happened under the final years of Bush if anything free market still operated in our nation. Just don't play Frogger in traffic, is all I ask. No... No Frogger. The little toad never ended well. It was only how many trips it got before being squashed. We're about out of trips I think.

I'll just say, as someone that subsists off of disability payments (due to blindness), this fear mongering is ridiculous and senseless.

What the heck am I supposed to be able to do about the debt ceiling? What the heck is my 78 year old mom living on SS supposed to do about the debt ceiling?

Why threaten US? Will Congress be losing THEIR paychecks? HAVE they lost them with the shutdown?

No?

Hmmm...

Have you ever known someone who was bankrupt, broke, unemployed AND on welfare? Someone who couldn't keep their bank account balanced and who was always asking for money and spending it on booze and gambling? Someone who also owns a gun and is psychologically deranged yet always has a smile on their face and a lie spewing out of their mouths? Someone who also keeps telling you how irresponsible YOU are, all the while eating food out of your refrigerator and causing trouble with ALL of your neighbors?

Those are the kind of people we have running our government.

reply to post by Nyiah


If we hit the debt ceiling, it's game over. I recommend getting a job today if you don't have one, before everyone else is forced to and it's impossible to get one.

Also, stock up on food, water and gas.

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I know a lot of people that are already using their back-up plans to survive, meanwhile, like living with family or on government assistance.

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I am not entirely sure, but I am guessing if government workers are out of work, we hit the debt ceiling and people don't get their social security checks and disability checks, while meanwhile other countries aren't getting paid their loan payments, that could smash the economy.

reply to post by matafuchs

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

You call it scaremongering but is there anything in this statement that is incorrect? You can blame the bickering between parties and point fingers at the POTUS all you want but when it all comes down to it, it is a lose-lose situation. Raise the debt ceiling so you all can continue with your lives like there is nothing wrong OR leave it where it is and deal with the consequences now. You already owe $16,000,000,000,000 so what is a few trillion more right? Kick the can down the road a little then you can all have these same old arguments next fall.

reply to post by matafuchs


From the other thread:

Any thoughts?

Any hope?

Any suggestions?

Is this all part of the plan to bring down the USA?

My thoughts are that party lines have been divided due to polarization. A lot of this is originating from the Tea Party in the House, but a lot of the Tea Party's power came from the fact that liberals have been being *dicks* lately.

Even being a Democrat, I would have voted in a Tea Party member just because I don't like dicks. And liberals have been being absolute inconsiderate dicks about certain issues.

Notice that? The Tea Party got its power from the Democrats.

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Hope? Hmm... that would involve people dealing with their egos in time, I am not sure there is enough time to deal with all of the ego problems that have been building up, but maybe.

It is even possible that people would realize they have to deal with their ego problems at the last minute, and run out of time to.

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Suggestions? If you don't have a job, get one today - like as in right after you are done reading this, start looking if you want to beat the rush. I guess.

Why am i paying federal taxes?

The Federal Government will never default on it's debts - it will only default if they choose to. The Federal Government generates an obscene amount of cash daily through tax revenues, oil and mineral leases etc.

It's scare tactics!

How much extortion are they going to get away with? Anyone that thinks this hasn't been planned out way back in time, is naive to say the least. Seriously all the wars, all the offshoring&automation that creates trade deficits and trade deficits that create welfare statism, a DOD budget that is about 7 times bigger than china's or russia's, etc.

Every year we here this extortion. We must raise the debt ceiling but make minor cuts that dont affect the rich. Both parties using their leverage to get what they want. But what happens when two cars playing chicken in a head-on collision don't have time to get out of each others way? They collide!

USA will not default entirely but it will cause credit downgrades, which means more interest on the treasury notes, and the more interest you pay, the faster and deeper you dig yourself into the hole. When we are talking trillions of debt even 1% more means hundreds of billions just in interest payments.

The debt ceiling needs to be raised but if Obama had any brains left he would scrap ACA immediately and admitted it was too flawed. Obama will be known as the ACA and QE president that along with Bushes 9-11 and two wars caused america to become a second tier nation.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by charles1952

 

I've said from the start that if this is about going all the way, then I'm honestly not kidding about saying it's inevitable and may as well get on with it. Sooner than later.

Well, that is true, although it won't be pretty at all, even if we avoid the issue this time it will just keep coming up, possibly multiple times in the next year, even.

I just wonder if this is just a show or they just got really bad problems they can't really fix where the media/obama says it's because the republicans (god I hate that word) / tea party they can't do ANYTHING. Truth could be they just can't make a budget because of not enough funding to pay for everything?
Of course they could never admit/say that so it's possible..

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


No offense but are you insane? Delayed SS benefits for those rellying on them to live is unspeakable!

Many of these folks are RETIRED and have no other source of income. They wont have any money to buy food, buy clothes, pay for kerosense to keep their furnaces up and running. PEOPLE DIE UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES!

There would be a need for charities to supply soup and food kitchens, tent cities, salvation army, etc.

Its not funny one bit. Sorry to be mean.

Since there is so much fear and anger over the possibility of default, I thought you'd like to see this:

House GOP leaders also insist they don't want a default, and they've already passed a bill to prevent it—not that the media have paid any attention. First sponsored in 2011 by California Republican Tom McClintock and Pennsylvania Senator Pat Toomey, the Full Faith and Credit Act is essentially an insurance policy against miscalculation. Their bill certifies that U.S. sovereign debt will always be repaid, on time and in full.

If Congress fails to authorize a statutory increase in the debt limit—during a period of, say, intense political conflict over the fisc like the one now—the bill stipulates that Treasury can continue making contractual interest and principal payments to bond holders and rolling over debt with incoming tax payments. Debt service gets the first call on revenue.

The McClintock-Toomey bill replicates the guarantees that state constitutions have had for hundreds of years to strengthen investor confidence. It gives the Treasury Secretary discretion to prioritize among other federal obligations until the political deadlock ends, tempers cool and the parties can reach a deal. But it makes his first priority to protect the full faith and credit of the U.S.

Yet instead of embracing this insurance against default, Democrats have voted to kill it even as they cry havoc about the risk of default. The House passed McClintock-Toomey in May, but only on a 221 to 207 party-line vote after a raucous debate. The White House issued a formal veto threat, calling it "unwise, unworkable and unacceptably risky."

online.wsj.com...

It seems as though the Democrats are hoping to use the possibility of a default as a political tool to increase their strength, and have little interest in ending that possibility. Good for the Democrats, bad for the country.

Let's be honest here... who DOESN'T think it is time to clear the hill? I mean honestly..

Every single member of government in DC needs to be fired.. period. They have proven time and time again that they can't get ANYTHING done to benefit the people of this country.

I am so tired of hearing "democrat this.." and "republican that..". ENOUGH. If these two "groups" can't get their $h$% together enough to do GOOD for the United States of America then its time for them to go. And as public opinion polls have shown.. no one in this country approves of the job they are doing. As they are duly elected by US, the people, to represent us... I think it is our right to remove them from office. When an employee is horrible at his job, do you let him/her continue on? When they don't do the work that is expected of them... do you let them go on a paid vacation?!?!

This is getting ridiculous. This time last year we were hearing the same old BS about the "debt ceiling". Can we just come to terms with the fact that the United States is BANKRUPT? That we've been bankrupt since 1913.. and that we will NEVER get out of debt with the current system?

Enough.. seriously. It is time to get these people out of here. These entitled, corporate ass kissing morons need to go. They don't care about this country.. they've PROVEN they don't care about the people... Time for the pink slips. That goes for every single one of them.

The problem is that they have been kicking it down the road since 07. I do not even want to blame any POTUS at this time as it was put in play in the early 90's, for this to happen. 9/11 was a huge economic set back but most people forget that. The internet boom that made everyone millionaires one day and broke in a few years? This is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever. They even screwed people recently with Facebook and everyone still fell for it. It is all about those who have getting more and if you step out of line you lose it. This started in 1913 folks and this is the result.

Fact is, the US is broke, like it or believe it does not matter, these are the facts. They have been shooting money in every direction and the rest of the world is now looking at us like the spoiled old ball player who lost all his money, then relied on friends he lent money too, then whored himself out to whoever would employ him or give him free drinks for endorsement and now is just a broken shell of what once was, or, at least what they thought that they were. Everyone is kicking us around and laughing. Now, it is down to stealing from the old and poor. Middle class is tapped out. Rich people are all going overseas.

The next step is for them to explain how they will rebuild...

This is all ridiculous.

If the government hadn't repeatedly raided a Social Security trust fund THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO to pay for their other poorly managed entitlement programs and wasteful pork barrel projects, (leaving only IOU's in their wake that will never get paid back), this would not be an issue. This government took a sizable and planned financial surplus and replaced it with worthless poorly drawing government bonds. In so doing, they have made it entirely reliant on the general fund to pay out its beneficiaries, which is not what was billed as being intended.

When I look back on the whole program now, it more and more makes sense that all it ever was was another intentional and well-designed leftist Ponzi Scheme played on the American people under the guise of social welfare in order to extract an additional stream of revenue from us. And borderline criminally so ...There is a contractual case for fraud/theft to be made here by the American people against the US Government when this socialist program eventually fails, as well. They basically set up a public company 50 years ago to dump (what have become) their low performing bonds into, and we are the forced purchasers left with nothing more than a worthless I.O.U. piece of paper in our hands and the threat of a default on a payout obligation later this month.

Make no mistake. This country is run like a large corporation. Like it or not, we are its investors. And the goal of any corporation is to make money through any immoral means necessary. Social Security has been one way the government has achieved this on that front. And it has been at the expense of the very investors it is soon to screw over. There are no bleeding hearts in the U.S. government, People. Politics are big business. They are a lie. They tell you what you want to hear to buy their product. It's all propaganda. A sales job intended to extract as much money from you as it can. Those who would label themselves Democrat or Republican are sheep. They are pawns of the teams they have divided this country into to perpetuate their money making scheme. The phrase "divide and conquer" has never rung so true as it has this day.

This impending shutdown and SS freeze is not just on Republicans, despite what Obama would try and have his sucklings believe. This is a failure of an entire increasingly more corrupt government over a period of 50 years, and is right there in black and white the pratfalls of big nanny state government on its people ...And yes. That includes YOU Mr. Obama, who is implicit in holding the American people hostage right now over the same one year Obamacare reprieve you passed out to your corporate overlords, despite the fact that it is not even close to being ready to foist upon us. To solely blame one party or the other is to put your head in the sand as to what is really going on. The two-party system is a lie. (I'm running long here, so I'll leave it to you all to trace the lines to figure it out)

SS is yet another example of a government program in which the initially "well-intended brainchild" it billed itself as has been compromised since by a perceptually dysfunctional and inept government (or (cynically) is it running as smoothly today as ever?) and is leading us to potentially dire financial and societal straits in the coming future. Quite frankly, contractually at the end of the day this is not Obama's or this federal government's money to be holding hostage like this. This was billed as an independent trust fund the AMERICAN PEOPLE would pay into to finance their retirement. Instead it has shown its true face as another pseudo tax revenue fund the Feds have repeatedly drawn from to near exhaustion at their and this country's peril.