China, Turkey make deal .. NATO not happy

the link below tells it all , to me it is all about NATO and Tech systems , the big one China's influence in the Mid East
www.reuters.com... from the link

For China, Turkey missile deal a victory even if it doesn't happen

REUTERS/Kim Kyung-Hoon/Files
By David Lague
HONG KONG | Wed Oct 2, 2013 8:11am EDT
(Reuters) - Turkey's $4 billion order for a Chinese missile defense system is a breakthrough for China in its bid to become a supplier of advanced weapons, even though opposition from Washington and NATO threatens to derail the deal.

The winning bid from the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) to deliver its FD-2000 air defense missile system in a joint production agreement with Turkey is the first time a Chinese supplier has won a major order for state-of-the-art equipment from a NATO member. U.S., Russian and Western European manufacturers were also in the fray.

The decision last week to award the contract to CPMIEC, a company that is under U.S. sanctions for dealings with Iran, North Korea and Syria, surprised global arms trade experts and senior NATO officials.

"It is quite significant I would say, if it materializes," said Oliver Brauner, a researcher on China's arms exports at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)."It would certainly be a landmark deal."

Turkey signaled on Monday that it could back away from its decision after Washington said it had "serious concerns" about the deal with a sanctioned company for a system that would not be compatible with NATO's other weapons and networks.

And, in a reminder that Ankara faces stiff opposition from its alliance partners in Europe, a NATO official in Brussels said it was important that equipment ordered by member countries is compatible.

you would think NATO would welcome this to study China's system.

what is your take ?

bekod


what is your take ?

In all simplicity. Someone got pissed that China made the best offer and got the deal, therefore also got the money. So now that someone wants to derail the deal, in order to get their hands on the money.

Greed in all its glory and splendor.

A key to joining NATO and to NATO being able to operate as a real alliance is that its equipment and systems are all compatable. If you look at all the old Warsaw Pact nations they had to either get rid of all that Russian equipment or bring it up to NATO standards. A cheaper Chinese system that may not be compatible with other NATO systems sets a bad presidence. I am suprised the Russians are not complaining considering that Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan have their little anti Russia grouping. Poor Russia not only does it keep losing ground to the West but, China as well.

reply to post by bekod


Like when Poland thought about buying the Jas 39 fighter jet instead of the F-16. They got a call from the US saying that it would severely hurt the future cooperation between Poland and Nato. It's all politics and have very little to do with equipment being compatible or anything like that.

MrSpad
A key to joining NATO and to NATO being able to operate as a real alliance is that its equipment and systems are all compatable. If you look at all the old Warsaw Pact nations they had to either get rid of all that Russian equipment or bring it up to NATO standards. A cheaper Chinese system that may not be compatible with other NATO systems sets a bad presidence. I am suprised the Russians are not complaining considering that Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan have their little anti Russia grouping. Poor Russia not only does it keep losing ground to the West but, China as well.

That might be the "official" reason why NATO and the US are pissed off, but that's not the real reason.
The real reason is American defence contractors just lost out on a multi-billion dollar program.

The reason they lost out, is because China was offering full tech transfer to Turkey. This is important because Turkey is trying to become completely independent and self sufficient when it comes to it's armed forces. Turkey selecting a Chinese product with full tech transfer, that will aide Turkey in it's other missile and rocket developments, is bad news for America because it is one more step for Turkey becoming independent from American reliance. That's what the issue is.


On the other side of the Aegean, you have Greece who already operates a number of Russian systems.
From the Zubr, to the S300. The S300, and TorM1, both Russian, have been integrated into Greece's overall air defence network. Greece's air defence network is linked up to NATO. What Greece sees, NATO sees. Part of Greece's air defence network includes Patriot's.


The Americans were not offering full tech transfer to Turkey. The Chinese were. That's why they chose the Chinese rip off of a Russian system.

It's the same reason they chose the Italian A-129 attack helicopter, and the Korea howitzer..because both offered full tech transfer. They could have chosen more Super Cobras, or the newer Apache like Greece..but they went with the Italians because they offered them everything.

Even with their submarines, they are trying to do the same thing. They've chosen the German Type214, like Greece and South Korea. Except they've managed to convince the Germans to allow them to install their own computer systems etc on board.


The question that Washington should be asking it self, is not simply why did our contractors lose out to the Chinese on this, but WHY Turkey is in such a rush to remove it's reliance on Western partners and allies.
Partners and allies that have been very very generous to Turkey in terms of military trade.
Partners and allies that have been very very generous in turning a blind eye to Turkish violations of international laws, protocols and treaties.
Partners and allies that have invested in the Turkish economy and created several industries over night in Turkey, like auto manufacturing.

Why?
It's all happening under Erdogan an the Islamist AKP party.
Which is funded by Gulf Arab oil money. Supposedly Americas allies as well.
These guys are also pushing hard for an American attack on Syria and Iran. Why? Why don't they do it them selves?

What's really going on?

There's something off about the whole region these past ten or so years. And I mean more off then usual.

reply to post by bekod


So

Turkey a member of NATO will buy a new "Advanced" Chinese missiles. Hmmmm, Wonders how long before someone in the West will have a new Chinese missile system to dissect?

SLAYER69
reply to post by bekod

 

So

Turkey a member of NATO will buy a new "Advanced" Chinese missiles. Hmmmm, Wonders how long before someone in the West will have a new Chinese missile system to dissect?

What makes you think they don't already know all about it?

reply to post by bekod


Wondering if this is in anyway related to the latest derailment of Turkey joining the EU. Turkey has been really straining for EU membership for over 10 years and they want it bad.

I know the EU and NATO are not the same but some members of NATO are part of the EU. Maybe this is a shot across the bow telling NATO countries to bring Turkey into the EU fold.

reply to post by Bassago

could be , for Turkey' is not happy with the EU taking so long to decide if it should become a member www.reuters.com... from the link

By Adrian Croft
BRUSSELS | Thu Oct 3, 2013 1:40am EDT
(Reuters) - Turkey has been trying for years to join the European Union, presenting itself as a growing economic and political power and a bridge to Asian and Middle Eastern markets.

But the next country to join the EU's existing 28 members is more likely to be one of six small Balkan countries, five of which still formed part of Yugoslavia when Turkey made its first membership bid.

Several powerful EU states are reluctant to open the door to a large, mainly Muslim country, even a member of the NATO Western military alliance, fearing a troublesome integration whereas small countries have a track record of smooth accession.

While the EU focuses its attention elsewhere, the Turkish government and public are increasingly despondent and have started to wonder whether it really needs Europe after all.

that says it all, and for missiles www.thesundaytimes.co.uk... from the link

Furious US tries to stop Nato ally buying Chinese defence missiles

Michael Sheridan Published: 6 October 2013
Comment (0) Print
The maker of the FD-2000 missile defence system has sold equipment to IranThe maker of the FD-2000 missile defence system has sold equipment to Iran
THE United States is mounting a diplomatic offensive to block an order from Turkey for a £2.4bn Chinese missile defence system.

The Americans are outraged that their Nato ally has agreed to buy the armaments from a Chinese firm that faces US sanctions for supplying ballistic missile technology to Iran.

The sale would be a coup for China, which has recently overtaken Britain as the world’s fifth largest arms exporter.

There is particular anger because the United States, Germany and Holland have all sent Patriot missile batteries and crews to protect Turkey against any attack from Syria, Iran’s closest ally.

and then this www.worldbulletin.net... from the link

Updating: 12:10, 04 October 2013 Friday
Turkey to take on Chinese missile system
Turkey to take on Chinese missile system
Turkey is set to take on a Chinese missile defense system after finalizing a controversial deal with the growing far-eastern powerhouse.




World Bulletin / News Desk
The Turkish government has announced that it is about to sign a deal with the Chinese weapons firm CPMIEC which will see Turkey take on a Chinese made F-2000 missile defense system, having preferred this offer over rival bids from US, Russian and European firms.
CPMIEC sanctioned by the US in February 2013 for dealing with states who have breached international nuclear weapons agreements. In a statement from the White House, the US said ‘We conveyed our serious concerns about the Turkish government's contract discussions with a US-sanctioned company for a missile defense system that will not be interoperable with defense systems or collective defense capabilities.’
Speaking to Turkey’s Star Newspaper, Turkey’s Defense Industry Undersecretary Murat Bayar said ‘we are not buying this for NATO, we are buying this for Turkey.’ He also went on to criticize NATO for double standards by ignoring the fact that fellow member Greece also bought a similar system from Russia.

that should make NATO and the US happy ....not

the link says it best, by whom, and what it is www.todayszaman.com... and the link that says it all www.todayszaman.com... US is going to mad, NATO is going to mad , EU , do they couunt ? but Turkey and CHina are going to happy.

iBallinU

What makes you think they don't already know all about it?

What makes you think that's what I thought?

It was a question...