IRS collecting money but not sending refunds during shutdown..True taxation without representation..

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posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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True taxation without representation


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It has started. I have said many times that to collect the fines and taxes for Obamacare the IRS would take the money directly from your tax returns before going after your bank accounts. The IRS has the information it needs as it collected it for free from your employer last year. Look at your W2. Box 12dd. It shows how much it costs for your insurance. This is how they came up with the costs for the Exchanges.

They will want their money. They will take it. They are collecting it but they are NOT sending it back. Audits however will be halted.... If you do not believe it...read this.


The IRS is continuing to collect your taxes during the shutdown, but don’t expect to be getting any refunds you may be owed until the government reopens.
“Individuals and businesses should keep filing their tax returns and making deposits with the IRS, as they are required to do so by law,” the agency said in its guidance for taxpayers. “The IRS will accept and process all tax returns with payments, but will be unable to issue refunds during this time.”
An important deadline is looming: Taxpayers who requested a six-month extension on their 2012 tax returns are still required to file their form by Oct. 15. The agency said all other normal deadlines also remain in effect.


Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


So this begs to question, if they are not returning the money why are we paying taxes and for what?




posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


If we are required to pay them "by law" then shouldn't they be required to pay us by law?? i just don't understand how it is okay for the IRS to get away with BS like this. Why don't people care enough to do anything about it?

Sorry.. my rant is done lol



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 

And if you are near a deadline, you will be considered late and be assessed a fine or worse when they get around to processing your documentation.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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matafuchs
So this begs to question, if they are not returning the money why are we paying taxes and for what?


The same reason why anyone has EVER payed taxes: because if they didnt put up their tribute money to the tyrants / protection money to the mobsters, then they would be attacked, caged, all property stolen, all livelyhood destroyed.

Thats what criminals do when they have power.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

What a way to run a Gov't.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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greencmp
reply to post by matafuchs
 

And if you are near a deadline, you will be considered late and be assessed a fine or worse when they get around to processing your documentation.


I would suggest that all IRS employees that have been furloughed report to their nearest local jail until a CR is passed.

I would think that's fair play.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 12:37 PM
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That`s correct, during the shutdown the government still collects taxes which is why the term "government shutdown" isn`t actually correct.
The shutdown just means that the government has to live within it`s means by living off of the actual money that it collects in taxes and not live off of borrowed money.

The interesting part of the shutdown is that we get to see where the governments priorities are by what they decide to fund with the tax money that is still coming in.
obviously they feel that their own pay checks are priority #1 and that the country can`t survive if they don`t pay themselves.




posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


It's because they were laid off. A recently and abruptly widowed friend of mine who I had been helping out called this morning at 7:50 a.m. to tell me that she had been laid off. She worked for the IRS. I don't know how deep the lay offs were but imagine that it was probably pretty deep because she was laid off as she is quite smart and hardworking--especially considering her circumstances.

edit on 2/10/13 by WhiteAlice because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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Tardacus
obviously they feel that their own pay checks are priority #1 and that the country can`t survive if they don`t pay themselves.



Say what you want about the shutdown and how Congress operates but Congress really can't give up their paychecks even if they wanted to. The 27th Amendment says that any pay changes that Congress enacts won't go into effect until after an election has taken place.

27th Amendment



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 



Congress should've never been allowed to pass that specific amendment outside of the controls on pay raises. It should've been limited and included a provision that government shutdown equaled no pay. The amendment was created because Congress went through a period where they were out of control in giving themselves raises so it meant well. However, it's backfiring at this time. Our current Congress, in my book, still deserves derision on this mark because, while they are penalizing thousands of workers, veterans and civilians, they are still getting paid.

Does not make for a happy public opinion no matter how they may excuse it by hiding behind an amendment that was never intended to be used in this manner.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


It my be something, but it isn't taxation without representation...you are still represented in the government.

It is what it is, this is what happens when the Tea Party plays politics with shutting down the government.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 


Hey, I agree with you. I feel like Congress shouldn't receive any pay either. I'm just stating the law of the land here. Hopefully this outrage remains in Americans' heads long enough after this debacle is settled that they demand that Congress amend this amendment. My guess, nothing will change.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


They wouldn`t need to enact anything, when pay day rolls around and there is no money to pay them they just don`t get paid.
There isn`t enough money to pay all the bills so obviously someone is setting money aside, by not paying other bills, to make such congress and the president get their pay checks.

unless there is some kind of law or amendment that says congress and the president must be paid before any other bills are paid, then yeah they are making a conscious choice to pay themselves first before paying the other bills that are due.

edit on 2-10-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


I know.
I'm just feeling really quite bad for my friend. This came at the worst time for her and all became of political game playing so any vehemence isn't directed at you. It's for the dirt bags in Congress.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


First, how did the Tea Party shut down the government?

Second, My point of Taxation without representation means simply that the government has shut its doors (to what they choose are things that are not needed btw) but is still collecting taxes. For what???

Also, it is not giving back what you as a US citizen are due in your returns.

The IRS also has hired more than 15k people in the last 6 months to help comply with the PPACA but they more than likely laid off those that handle audits since those are suspended. Why? Because they do not need audits anymore because they have direct access to all of your financials. Another part of the PPACA.

So, the PPACA is causing more jobs to be lost and since the one who wrote it will not work to make it right those who are fighting for work and to live suffer.

Also, they have decided that they cannot update websites either. They have shut us out as a voice. Try www.whitehouse.gov and see what you get.

A lapse in funding?? No # as there has not been a budget passed in years but hey, I got Jay Z for my parties during this time...living large!!! Meanwhile, people, hardworking honest people who also more than likely voted for him are going home to families with nothing. Nothing and no plans.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Tardacus
 


Yes there is one. I linked to it earlier in the thread. The 27th Amendment. By not paying Congress, you are changing their pay. This cannot be done without an election happening first. The Amendment is pretty clear in this regard. It sucks that Congress can use this to maintain their pay, but that is the way it is. Nothing can be done about it now (and have it take effect tomorrow). However, you can remain outraged about this and gather like minded folks like yourself and petition Congress to enact legislation to change this. Then after the next election, if either the Republicans or Democrats try a stunt like this, they get no pay.

I guess technically, a Congressman can refuse their pay, but it is illegal to just not pay them.
edit on 2-10-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


Wow, so much false information.


First, how did the Tea Party shut down the government?


Have you not been keeping up? It is the Tea Party Republicans that are forcing this government shutdown. They have said, "Either Democrats repeal/defund/delay the ACA, or we are shutting down the government." This isn't a secret, they have been saying it for a couple years now.


Second, My point of Taxation without representation means simply that the government has shut its doors (to what they choose are things that are not needed btw) but is still collecting taxes. For what???


I know that was your point, but your point is invalid.

Congress is still working, your Representative, Senators, and President are still "representing" you in the government. Besides, no new taxes have been passed during this shut down, so all the taxes you owe were passed with representation.

It's a patriotic catchy phrase, but you are using it horribly wrong.


Also, it is not giving back what you as a US citizen are due in your returns.


Thanks to the Republicans. Returns are not an essential service of the government...collecting taxes is. Just the way the cookie crumbles.

You could be smart about it and only pay the taxes you owe, then you wouldn't be waiting for a refund.


The IRS also has hired more than 15k people in the last 6 months to help comply with the PPACA but they more than likely laid off those that handle audits since those are suspended. Why? Because they do not need audits anymore because they have direct access to all of your financials. Another part of the PPACA.


First off, no one hired for the ACA is laid off because the funding for the ACA is independent of the budget and so this government shutdown is not affecting them one single bit.

Secondly, you are so laughably wrong about them having access to "all of your financials". I know this is a conspiracy theory website...but that doesn't mean to suspend facts and critical thinking.



A lapse in funding?? No # as there has not been a budget passed in years but hey, I got Jay Z for my parties during this time...living large!!! Meanwhile, people, hardworking honest people who also more than likely voted for him are going home to families with nothing. Nothing and no plans.


The lack of a budget is a joint issue between Democrats and Republicans. Republicans want to force their agenda through a budget, and the Democrats aren't allowing it.

But lack of a budget does not equal lack of funding, those are two different things.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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Taxation without representation? it is our very representatives that have us in this mess. Those tea baggers who have tried to take Obama care out how many times with votes and failed even taking to court and failing now are having a tantrum and trying to change laws by holding the nation hostage with a shut down. Considering how the Tea Party popularity has crashed and burned this is pretty much thier last hurrah before they get booted out of office much to the happiness of the rest of the GOP who seem happy to point out who they are. However people did vote for these people and while everyone may think they are idiots they are elected representatives. One could claim taxation with some idiot representation but, not without representation.



posted on Oct, 2 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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I have been keeping up quite well. The House again voted on a spending plan that would defund the PPACA. The House represented the wishes of the US. We do not want more taxes or fines and if you have been keeping up you would know that the cost of the PPACA health insurance is higher than what we have now in private industry.

42 times the House has voted. After 42 times do you not think the Senate and the President should get the message it is not wanted and something needs to change? Not once or twice forty two times. There are not 230 Tea Party Republicans that voted against this the last time so you are spreading misinformation. Tea Party is a tagline the left can use to immediately discredit and the media does well with that. The Democratic controlled Senate is squashing any change or compromise. They are acting like children.

I am taxed each week. So are you and millions of others as well as employers so your argument that no 'tax laws' have been passed in two days does not apply to what I am stating as a whole here. They do NOT represent me. They represent special interests or their own agendas. Do you really think Nancy Pelosi has your best interest in mind? She told you not to read this and let it pass and look where we are now?

Funding for the ACA is what the argument is for and is paid for by your taxes (medicare and other services) and in 2014 by your fines. in 2014 it will be 1% of your income, in 2015 2% and 2016 and beyond 2.5% of your income. This will be included in your tax information. Let us not also forget about capping FSA accts so that you will be taxed more. In 2014, if a company with more than 50 workers does not offer coverage, they will be obligated to pay $2,000 for each full-time worker in the company, exempting the money due for the first 30 employees. For example, an employer with 53 workers will pay the penalty for 23 workers, or $46,000. What part of this do you not understand or do are you simply misinformed?

The PPACA allows direct access to financials through the exchanges. You know who the Navigators are, right? The ones who have access to financials and medical records. Fact.

Budget and funding go hand in hand. If you do not have the funding you should not overspend and that is what the current administration is doing. No budget in 6 years has passed. Do you not find that bad for our economy or even want to know why? You cannot just "Blame the Republicans" forever...or the Democrats. They are equally wrong here.
edit on 10pm31pmf0000002013-10-02T15:53:58-05:000358 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)
edit on 10pm31pmfu2013-10-02T16:58:58-05:000458 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



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