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Peacenicks and Pacifists : Are you one? Why The War on Terror is Right!

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posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:14 PM
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Why is it that whenever the few conservatives on this site post anything, our site we use to support our views are labeled as biased, religious, or flat out untrue? Yet the majority liberals on this site seem to be able use anything they want to support their ideas and its factual, and non-biased?




posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Yet the majority liberals on this site seem to be able use anything they want to support their ideas and its factual, and non-biased?


Its the way they work, they can get information to those that cant think for themsleves and they get new war protesters. It is the operating methods of these people.

Shock and Shame.....but that is one sided if you havent noticed.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by edsinger]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:36 PM
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Ed, why are you still so angry?

I mean, you've won absolutely everything you can possibly win. Congress, Senate, House of Reps, the White House. You guys are in the clear majority and the government is doing what you want. You won, fair and square, legit, and we're going to get out of your way and let you do what you want.

So, what are you still complaining about? Are looking for our approval?

I don't see how a group of people can be so in control, and so insecure at the same time. And believe me, you guys are on the hook for it all.

Democrats aren't your worst enemy, history will be.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Just becuase I dont agree with your logic? So now I am nuts?

Did I say I thought you were nuts? I don't think I did. Why - are you?



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Its the way they work, they can get information to those that cant think for themsleves and they get new war protesters. It is the operating methods of these people.


No offense intended, but I recently heard someone say the exact same thing concerning how the Republicans got people to support the war by using Christianity.
I'm probably wrong but it does kinda seem that way.

BG



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Its the way they work, they can get information to those that cant think for themsleves
...


...
Shock and Shame.....but that is one sided if you havent noticed.

I'll just have to repeat what I stated earlier. The irony of you making that statement is simply wonderful.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Durden
Shock and Shame.....but that is one sided if you havent noticed.

I'll just have to repeat what I stated earlier. The irony of you making that statement is simply wonderful.


So I guess you got it all figured out huh? Bush is evil , Saddam was great, we are not threatened by Islamic fundementalism huh durden?

Remember m8, you are on a left leaning board so you can feel real big that you are spot on, but I live in the real world.....I can put 2 and 2 together, we have argued this till we are both blue in the face.......

We disagree.....



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
So I guess you got it all figured out huh? Bush is evil , Saddam was great, we are not threatened by Islamic fundementalism huh durden?

I'm seriously starting to worry about you, edsinger... are you delusional or simply a flat out liar? Where exactly did I say Saddam was great???


Remember m8, you are on a left leaning board so you can feel real big that you are spot on,

What a fantastically pointless statement, edsinger. And yet again you reveal your ignorance to this issue by clinging to this merely being a discussion of political preference.


but I live in the real world.....

Well actually you do live in a the real world, edsinger. The only thing though is that your mind just doesn't live there with you.


I can put 2 and 2 together, we have argued this till we are both blue in the face.......

Yeah, you've shown - a number of times - how you manage to put 2 and 2 together, only to end up with 22 instead of 4.


We disagree.....

Good for you, this one you nailed spot on.



[edit on 16-11-2004 by Durden]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by brimstone735
So, what are you still complaining about? Are looking for our approval?

I don't see how a group of people can be so in control, and so insecure at the same time. And believe me, you guys are on the hook for it all.

Democrats aren't your worst enemy, history will be.


Interesting observation brimstone!! Seems that there are many, many people out there who are still trying to 'Justify their actions'. You would think that if such actions were really as 'Just & Right' they wouldn't have to try so hard to convince everyone, including themselves.

Aside from that, you mention that you see them as being insecure. That is a good word for it actually when you look at the situation and those in it. It could be seen as simply Acting out of Fear.

Fear the Terrorists and Fear their Mighty Weapons!! But wait, aren't we the one's with the Greatest and Most Powerful Military??? Shouldn't they fear us???

Fear that even your own neighbor may be Supporting Terrorism!! So much so that we must Decrease Domestic Privacy, Militarize the Police Watch over the U.S. & Limit the Legal Rights of Citizens, all under the cloak of National Security and Keeping Us Safe.

Fear of the Homosexuals, because they are attempting to destroy all of Societies Moral Values as well as The Church & Marriage!! Funny how it's so Taboo for anyone to say 'Fag' or make a gay joke in the work place or general public and yet it's perfectly fine to ban them from Religious/Political customs which are as old and diverse as history itself.

Fear the Liberals, because they're all just Communists in hiding!! While in some cases I may actually agree with that one,
, I'm still not real happy given the choice between 'Disfunctional Left-Wing Brown Nosing Communists' or 'Psychopathic Right-Wing Neo-Nazi Facisists' as being one of the two groups I'm supposed to be joining up with!

Fear the Peacenicks and Pacifists now too!!! Why??? Cause Fear is supposed to run our lives I guess. That seems to be the message everywhere, regardless of the reasoning behind it. As long as we are encouraging Fear and Hate against Pacifists I suppose we might as well get the campain rolling against Puppies, Teddy Bears & Circus Clowns too. What's my Justification you ask?? Because I'm Right and anyone who disagrees is Supporting Terrorism and a Pinko Liberal who is out to destroy this country!! Oh, yah, and they're gay hippies who traffic drugs and are after your children too!!


BTW, that wan't directed at anyone personally. If you feel that anything I've said fits you personally then that's your fault and not mine. You should Fear what you've become far more than anything I've said.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by LostSailor Why is it that whenever the few conservatives on this site post anything, our site we use to support our views are labeled as biased, religious, or flat out untrue?
Our recent political survey shows there's actually a good balance of viewpoints, no one political stance is far above any other (from an ATS population standpoint). Ed's original post seemed to imply that the source was rather balanced, and the story was timely... it was neither. It's among the most oddly-conservative university opinion rags in the country (it's not really traditionally conservative, nor neo-conservative, more Bush-conservative).

Originally posted by edsinger It is the operating methods of these people. Shock and Shame.....but that is one sided if you havent noticed.
Yes. But the statement is correct for both ends of the continually bitterly divided spectrum. You've been systematically fooled into believing your current values are traditionally conservative, when they're not. The traditional ideology of the far-right conservative (the far-far right) is currently much closer in mind-set to modern "liberalism" than the brand of Reblicon conservatism sold by the Bush administration. (Not that modern Democrats haven't sold-out their traditional values either.)

Bush is evil , Saddam was great
Examine the item I quoted from you above, then this statement from you here. Why do "modern Repulicans" default to a typical knee-jerk reaction with statements such as this? Why is that if I dislike Bush, I must be siding with an enemy? This simply does not make sense.

Remember m8, you are on a left leaning board
www.abovetopsecret.com... www.abovetopsecret.com... From what I can tell, based on the numbers of our survey, we're among the most balanced places in existence! Ah... but again, your extremist political ideological conditioning seems to lead you to believe that anyone not of your brand of conservatism must be liberal. So I suppose form that vantage point, the board is indeed 93% liberal (since 7.13% reported "very conservative"). Ed, you are a shining example of the effective strategies of the campaign to divide the American populace through ideological confusion. You seem to believe that you must pick a side and be unwaveringly loyal to the ideology of that side, no matter what. I would defend to the death your right to be that way, but it's a shame so many people have been fooled.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 06:50 AM
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I'm going to have agree with at least portions of SO's statements to you edsinger. Though I flatly reject the statement that the "far far right" is closer to today's "liberalism" - that's simply not true - the "true political Republican" is far from your rhetoric.

I emphasize the word political above because that is what defines a "true Republican" versus the modern-day "moral Republican"...there is no such true characteristic of either party to cause it to be the vanguard of morals for the U.S. population.

You speak just like the top two people I blame this "moral movement" on:

Newt Gengrich
Rush Limbaugh

They started the hateful rhetoric, the "agenda" that you have followed, and many more like you.

But the rest of us "political Republicans" will neither follow with you, nor stand silently by and let your deface us.

I wish some of you - both on the "moral Republican" and the "liberal Democrat" sides - would open up a history book, a political science book, and learn the truth about the two-party system...maybe if enough of you did, the system could be saved by going back to its political nature instead of this stupid, idiotic, worthless, assinine moral fighting that leads to no good for the U.S. as a nation.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:21 AM
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Val, you are a little wrong on this point. Political history books are filled with very "hateful" speech. Fistfights, duels to the death, etc. If you go back to the 60's (god help us all) you will find much but "hateful" political speech, and some bombings too. I also seem to remember some riots too.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:29 AM
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Yeah, there's always been extremists...I'm not stating that Newt and Rush were the first hateful-heads in U.S. politics. I'm speaking of the here and now. The "recent" modern attempts to make the Republicans the "moral party" and the liberals of the Democratic party (which are a sub-set and have their own blame in this whole moral war) the evil immoral demons of the society can be traced back to Newt's "Republican agenda" and Rush's rise to virulent fame.

Trust me...I was there when it happened.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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I think the far right is the liberal of today. They (libertarian party for example) want the government almost completly out of their life. Giving the Americans more freedom then they have today. The democratic "liberal" wants the government in control of almost every aspect of the American life. Which sounds more free to you?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:48 AM
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The true Republican way has always sounded the most free...hence my political leanings.


You are right, in order to be a true Republican...you have to be a Libertarian...it's all very confusing and I'm going to go take an aspirin now.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:00 AM
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Edsinger why are you not on the casualy list in iraq?
Go on do the peaceniks a favour and sign up... then got to iraq and catch a bullet for us will you? Do your bit for peace pal...


About war ensuring peace.... FALLACY pure and simple.

Its like saying buy a pet dog to have a great pet cat, it makes ZERO sense!



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Why is it that whenever the few conservatives on this site post anything, our site we use to support our views are labeled as biased, religious, or flat out untrue? Yet the majority liberals on this site seem to be able use anything they want to support their ideas and its factual, and non-biased?


If the guy had postulated a theses and went about supporting it with factual evidence, then i would accept it and actually try to postulate a antitheses and try to back it up etc.
In this case however the guy just posted a article that said war is right...



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
And to think this article came from the IVY LEAGUE?


You can not have peace but doing nothing to defend yourself. You must fight for your rights and defend them if you are to keep them.

Of course I am not a peacenick or pacifist, but my bet is ATS is full of them and that is why I enjoy it here so much.

Forrest Gump put it so well "Stupid is as Stupid does"




Strings of origami peace doves, cute slogans, and talk of love is pretty as the first little flower in the springtime, and just about as efficacious, in preventing the future murder of innocent U.S. citizens. Unfortunately, this is all that Cornells recently mobilized peace-police were able to offer at their Peace Rally last Thursday. Many Cornellians seem to be joining in this peace movement, but shouldnt we first contemplate the real consequences of this pacifism?

It seems following this path of peace, pacifism, and idleness amounts to suicide, self-destruction and certain doom for America as a people and a nation. If we want to survive, or ever to live in real peace, it is essential that we stand up and defend ourselves. If our peace-police still feel the need in some way to deal with the public, we can wait for the next extremist attack and send them to explain to the families of the new victims why their loved ones deserved to be vaporized by jet fuel or crushed by tons of steel and concrete, and why we need to act with prudence and caution while discovering what we did to rub someone the wrong way instead of swiftly ending the circle of violence.


Not only will attempts at peace above all yield no return, we have in fact already given peace a chance.

so you think peace has had its chnce and we should resort to killing each other?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:37 AM
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Ed your forgetting that these left thinking individuals can't and won't support the war. They wouldn't support any war. They hate the military and would love nother more than to see our noble actions in Iraq fail. That way they can laugh and mock their country even more.

They have succombed to the liberal media and think of us as oppressors invading their peaceful ccountry. They feel sorry for the Islamic Fundamentalists who we are trampling on. These Islamic fundamentalists don't follow the Geneva code.

When one of our soldiers discovers an Islamic Fundamentalist playing dead (after seeing so many of his fellow soldiers die from booby trapped dead terrorists and from terrorists playing dead) and shoots him. The liberal media jumped all over it and they went along with the ride.

They praise Arafat, the man who basically invented terrorism, as a hero. He practically invented the plane highjacking, and car bomb... But the media praised him as noble man who was just defending his country.

They have been blinded by their own impracticcle ideals ed.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
They have been blinded by their own impracticcle ideals ed.


You are so right, now they attempt to tell me I am a liberal in the 'old' sense. Heck , i agreed with your libertarian comment, I am far right on the political scale....hell Bush is more center than i by far.

Yet you are right, in no way would the war be supported, even if WMD had been found. Bush got Duped in their minds and he should pay for that.

Neo-Con? Well maybe but I am not behind that 100% at all. I just realize that our nation is in danger and the chamberlain method will not work.

We have the strength to win this, just not the will power. We have many at home that claim they support the troops in name only. What do the troops say? "Why is all the press coverage bad? Why not show some of the good we do?"

We have pictures of A/C bombs and civilian deaths , yet when one posts of Saddam's deeds they get deleted (which the ones I posted should have been.) dammit I was mad! It is a double standard!

Notice how the griping can get serious but no one presents a workable solution. We are at war with radical islam and we are our own worst enemy.

The difference between now and 1942, would be that you didnt have Americans protesting in the streets over civilian casulties in Dresden did you?

These people have the right to speak out, but it gets old when it aids the enemy and falls into the enemies plan.



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