Top MIT Scientist Mocks New UN Climate Report

reply to post by VoidHawk

That was my point

But you must have missed mine. The purpose of the "tweaking" is to get the models to match observations. Current models are doing a better job of it than older models. It's all right there in the report.

But the reason I made that comment was because a long way back in another thread I was told most of us would be gone by now due to being swallowed up by rising sea levels.

I don't know who told you that but it wasn't the IPCC.

Phage
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

That was my point

But you must have missed mine. The purpose of the "tweaking" is to get the models to match observations. Current models are doing a better job of it than older models. It's all right there in the report.

But the reason I made that comment was because a long way back in another thread I was told most of us would be gone by now due to being swallowed up by rising sea levels.

I don't know who told you that but it wasn't the IPCC.

edit on 9/30/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

But they are still just models, which are nothing more than some human's feeble attempt (or group of humans) to programatically reproduce the behavior of nature, when we still haven't even figured a unified model of physics. No matter how accurate they are today compared to years ago, they are still wrong and that's all that matters. You can't base science on consensus, it has to be on facts, observation and experiments.

~Namaste

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

But they are still just models, which are nothing more than some human's feeble attempt (or group of humans) to programatically reproduce the behavior of nature, when we still haven't even figured a unified model of physics.

So...we can't make a usable model unless we have a theory of everything. Sorry, that's not correct. Aside from the fact that there may not actually be a unified model. We can and do accurately model many natural processes. No doubt that as the complexity of the system increases the difficulty of creating an accurate model increases but does that mean you just throw your hands in the air and say "ah, the hell with it?" Creating an accurate flight model is not a trivial task but very accurate models are made.

No matter how accurate they are today compared to years ago, they are still wrong and that's all that matters.

That statement is an oxymoron. If the models are more accurate how can they be wrong? If they were wrong there would be no accuracy at all.

You can't base science on consensus, it has to be on facts, observation and experiments.

Yes. And that is what the IPCC report based on.

reply to post by Phage


If there is one thing I've learned about you over the years, it's that you just don't like to admit when you're wrong and so you are resorting to picking at semantics in my post. I'm not saying (nor did I) that because we can't model climate accurately that we shouldn't try to model climate. My statement is not an oxymoron, I'm saying that we're still WAY off on our models (which at the end of the day is what matters if you are basing a forecast from them), and instead of admitting that we aren't close enough to make any accurate statement about the future of our climate, it has been politicized into a scientific monstrosity in the absence of facts, for nothing more than capital gain. (billions have been poured into climate)

My point, was that models can't predict everything, especially not climate. We've had weather forecasts for decades, and they are still wrong every single day all around the globe. Hurricane models have been wrong many times over and caused loss of life in some cases. Granted, they get it right sometimes, but trying to predict the overall climate of a planet is not something you can accurately model given the complexity of the systems you are trying to model and the variables, of which we don't even fully realize yet. Will they get better? Probably so, but that doesn't justify the lack of acknowledging how INACCURATE they are currently and how much more refinement they need before solidifying a theory or stance on climate change.

~Namaste

so who is right? I honestly believe it is just a cycle. the earth has been through many and it is very arrogant of man to believe we can change the weather for the whole planet. scientists have been claiming to control weather or at least a means to ever since there has been science. yet no one has been able to. but as a collective we can change the weather on our blue sphere no matter the effects from the universe. I tend to agree with these reports.

www.forbes.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">http:// www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/09/20/objective-science-unmasks-global-warming-alarmists-as-the-true-science-deniers/


heartland.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">heartland.org...


the problem is that lying for many have become a way of life. and if any of you have ever known a liar, then you know they tell more lies to cover the first lies and so on and so on.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

Both weather forecasts and hurricane forecasts have gotten better and better. Can you provide a recent example of a forecast hurricane track which varied much from the forecast?

No one says that the climate models are perfect. No one says that weather forecasts are perfect, that's why they give us a probability of how accurate they are (60% chance of rain). The IPCC report gives probabilities.

Of course models can be improved. That is the purpose of the IPCC...to improve the models.

But to get back to the topic of this thread, Lindzen's characterization of the report and his ridicule of it was off base and premature.

reply to post by Phage


I guess I would have to know how many on that panel stand to profit from the sale of carbon credits.. There is quite a bit of conflicting evidence from many reputable scientists..

It's just as possible that these are natural cycles and they happen far faster than they anticipated.. Since no one is around to ask I guess we just have to take their word for it..

Maybe this guy can offer insights.. They seem to have found a possible cause to our last one..

www.livescience.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

iceagenow.info...

reply to post by letscit

so who is right? I honestly believe it is just a cycle. the earth has been through many and it is very arrogant of man to believe we can change the weather for the whole planet.

I love you....

YES! Damn it. It is a cycle and damned arrogant of man to think that he can even scratch the surface of the planet in a meaningful way.

Even if we unleashed every nuke we had on earth....eventually it would be brimming with life again.

The question we should occupy our time with is not who to fund with blank checks of public money for non issues..no

We should try to live IN and WITH nature instead of off it. That much is true.

Also worth mentioning is the mini ice age we had a couple hundred years ago. When that mini ice age ended the earth warmed...and guess what? No cars or co2 pollutants to be found besides the natural producers.

If they like reports so much, why not have a study done on the Suns impact on the earths climate cycles....oh wait...never mind, this is about making a cash cow out of "climate doom porn".

Sorry. I thought we were trying to be productive and reasonable.....taking a gander at any article about climate whoring would set you straight about that though.....EH GAHD ! ThE EnD is NEAr...! GReenhouse hoRRor! AHHHH

nice article here

The critical question is straightforward: why are we so reluctant to act? Why has the world turned its back on a disaster that has the potential to wreck life on Earth for centuries? Answers have a lot to do with the unpalatable nature of the message that climate scientists bring us. A quiet turning away is common.

However, there is another pernicious reason for our failure to act: the bitter, often vitriolic campaigns of climate change deniers – men and women (but mostly men) who simply refuse to accept that humanity is changing weather systems. They have played a major part in halting progress that could lead to global deals to reduce carbon emissions. The most vociferous of these operate in the US where rightwing thinktanks, often backed by oil and energy corporations, have funded lobbyists who, by questioning every statement made by government scientists, have helped to paralyse the nation's political ability to tackle climate change

In some cases, commentators said global temperature rises have paused recently. In fact, they have continued to increase, albeit at a reduced rate. Others have maintained that Arctic sea ice levels have bounced back from their recent calamitous drop. This, again, is untrue. They reached their sixth lowest extent this year. And then there is the claim by others that Arctic sea ice loss has been balanced by Antarctic sea ice gain. Once more, this is a travesty of the truth, though at least one national newspaper promoted it yesterday in its IPCC coverage. The Arctic has lost about 3m sq km of ice in the past 30 years while the Antarctic has gained 0.3m, the latter figure probably being no more than a reflection of year-to-year variability.

I think it is very sad that people still deny that this is a genuine concern

reply to post by tadaman

If they like reports so much, why not have a study done on the Suns impact on the earths climate cycles

What makes you think such studies have not been done?
www.google.com...
scholar.google.com...

EH GAHD ! ThE EnD is NEAr...! GReenhouse hoRRor! AHHHH

Maybe you should try reading the report.

reply to post by tadaman


and from what I have read and understand before every cooling period on earth or ice age there has been a considerable warming period, at least according to the Greenland ice core samples. there is even a article and scientific paper on it somewhere on the web. just from a few months ago too. will find if it helps further discussions.

reply to post by Phage


Phage you can throw as many studies into the discussion as you want. What you are not doing is looking at the sources of funding for those studies. We are being lied too in a big way.

The cycles the Earth goes through are undeniable. We have had our 10,000 years of sunshine and now, the ice is set for a return. What part of that can't you get your head around. Governments do not want 7 billion humans screaming "Do something!" at them. There is nothing they can do, nothing at all. The ice is coming!

P

reply to post by Painterz


" tens of thousands of researchers, some of them awardwinning scientists, from across the world (not to mention the political spectrum) "
-----------------------------------



* not to mention the political spectrum

At Least you got Something Right in All that Dribble in your Post here .

Politics = Untruths

Ergo...........

reply to post by pheonix358

I didn't "throw" any studies into the discussion. I was answering a direct question which implied there were no such studies. The person asking the question seemed to be somewhat misinformed.

We are being lied too in a big way.

I guess if you don't want to believe the studies badly enough you can say that.

There is nothing they can do, nothing at all. The ice is coming!

Ok. But either way if you'd read the report you might learn something about what it actually says.

reply to post by Phage


I don't trust Politicians, used car salesmen and insurance companies.

I used to trust science, but not anymore. You still don't want to understand. Who provided the money for those reports to be produced. That is the first thing you need to determine before even reading the executive summary.

So, who paid for them.

P

reply to post by pheonix358

Not hard to find out but since you can't seem to be bothered to look or read the report, here ya go.
www.ipcc.ch...

here is some more really good information I just found. this man is saying the heliosphere and magnetosphere have been shrinking, which is something we can all agree upon. if this is the case, how can the constant solar energy be holding steady. yet the solar system has been slowly warming. maybe ill learn something as someone proves this man wrong.

reply to post by letscit

yet the solar system has been slowly warming.

No it hasn't.
www.skepticalscience.com...

reply to post by Phage


okay I looked at what you linked and what I got is they say the sun isn't warming the solar system as many say.

the position the man in the video is taking is that the heliosphere and magneticsphere, [sorry if misspelled] are shrinking which is causing more solar wind from the galaxy/universe to enter into our solar system and our planet. it seems nasa has also mentioned this. so it is not just the solar rays he is talking about but the cosmic rays that he says have not been entered into the equation.

either way I still believe in the ice cores and the earths cycles. there is so much disinformation floating around on this subject it sometimes becomes hard to discern. this topic seems tailor made for ats and all the people who love to research and get to the bottom of things. I for one am now on board to try and do some tougher research of my own as to weed thru the bull. it seems people on both sides of this issue are pushing agendas. if we can get some of the money and all the politics out of this debate I believe we could find the truth.

seems its time to reference information, then cross reference then see who they work for, then follow the money. all with agenda or with agenda backing needs thrown out of the discussion.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980


My thanks to the MIT for engaging someone that understands that not only is the data and science put out by the U.N. and the Climate Warming Groups as being B.S. ...... but that Mother Earth has gone through these cycles for millions of years.... How can anyone believe in the Ice Ages and not understand that things had to warm back up or we would be frozen.
The truth, as stated by the MIT Prof. is that for the last 15 years it has been averaging cooler and cooler.

I do hate it when someone pulls something out of the .... and calls it facts and science and then tells you you are stupid if you don't agree. Climate Warming Groups need to go to the North pole and help those nuts that bought into the Ice Melting and thought they could sail through the Northwest Passage... Now Frozen In the Ice and calling for help.... they will loose their boats... no way to break them out with winter coming on.