Let's Stop Pretending that Obamacare is Socialism

reply to post by jacobe001


I wonder how our president and family are covered by insurance? Under the current insurance laws, his oldest daughter is almost eligible for free contraception. And she can soon have an abortion that she doesn't even have to tell her parents about. But she still needs her parents permission to go on field trips for school, but darn it, she can have free contraception.

I wonder if Obama realizes that his daughters are at least 15 years away from getting their own insurance coverage? They are going to be the beneficiaries of his health care system. Is he making it easier for them? Now suppose one of his daughters were to give birth to a child that had some terrible thing wrong with it and it needed long term care? Would Obamacare be sufficient for it, but would the child be considered too much trouble for the State to take care of? Would he want his own law repealed if his grandchild fell victim to Obamacare?

I have not heard him say that he felt comfortable enough for future generations of his children and grandchildren. In a few years, Malia will be old enough for free contraception and a partial-birth abortion that she doesn't even have to tell Barack and Michelle that she was even pregnant and had an abortion. I wonder how Barack would feel if his own daughter had a partial-birth abortion covered by the state, and he didn't know unless she told him.

I'm a socialist. I believe in socialism.

I would rather live in Scotland and have access to unlimited, "free" (taxes) healthcare at the point of use, than have to pay extortionate fees for a universal right.

I dont think some Americans realise how crazy and 3rd world their, "health care" system seems to the rest of the world.

No one. Not a Single person should be denied access to life saving treatment because they don't have enough digits on their bank screen.

Life v Money?

I choose life.

reply to post by jacobe001


I can't believe I'm typing this but 11 billion doesn't sound all that high when you listen to all the high numbers that are thrown at us nowdays. Makes for pleanty of "pocket money" I guess.
Man it's bad when the word billion doesn't sound like a lot of money!

reply to post by SaltireWarrior

I'm a socialist. I believe in socialism. I would rather live in Scotland and have access to unlimited, "free" (taxes) healthcare at the point of use, than have to pay extortionate fees for a universal right. I dont think some Americans realise how crazy and 3rd world their, "health care" system seems to the rest of the world. No one. Not a Single person should be denied access to life saving treatment because they don't have enough digits on their bank screen. Life v Money? I choose life.

Well if you chose "life" then stay out of a UK hospital.

NHS Hospitals Report Will Show 13,000 Needless Deaths Due To Poor Care

reply to post by Carreau


Ah statistics.

Yes of course there will be preventable deaths that occur in hospitals. Thats inevitable, be it simple human error or otherwise. In your rampant capitalist country im sure there are alos thousands of preventable deaths.

However speaking as someone who has used the NHS (they saved my vision in my left eye, a doctor actually worked over time without pay, without me asking him, just because he wanted to help) I can tell you that the care I have recieved from them has been nothing short of outstanding.

God bless the NHS. Does it have faults? Sure does, but i'm damn proud of it and wouldn't trade it for the world.

reply to post by SaltireWarrior


I believe the real problem with all healthcare is the cost of it. I have no idea what X-ray and MRI's cost in your country, but I know that they are pricy here. There is no reason for an X-ray to cost $200. $2000 a night for a hospital stay, and that doesn't include anything they do to you that night.
My mother had radiation therapy for colon cancer. She had five treatment with something called a cyber knife. Basically it's an radiation machine mounted to a cnc machine. It moved around her body and shot her from several different directions. Where the beams cross is the target.
Would you believe that was 18k for each treatment? $80,000!!!!
This is the true problem with healthcare. If we can get the prices where they belong everyone could afford insurance.

reply to post by spartacus699
We have socialist health care in Canada. Well Canada is socialistic. But the healthcare part I'm okay with. Because say your broke your arm. Do you have to also go broke and get 30,000 dollar bill because you didn't have coverage? That's dumb. Here you break an arm they repair it. You get into a car crash that leave you hospitalized for a month, no problem it's all covered for free. You cut off a limb, they sow it back on for free. In the states my understanding is you might get it done, but if you do then you go broke as a result. that's so dumb for such an advanced society. Like when I've been to the states I see such prestign everything. There malls are the best, there streets are perfect, there cars are perfect, everyones high fashion everyone seems to have money. But they don't even have health care? How dumb is that. All it is is big phrama has brainwashed everyone for so long to believe they should never allow for free healthcare. So they you got all these people that have never even tried it but think it's no good. How dumb is that. Obma care sounds pretty good if people are gonna get free healthcare.

And if you dont' believe me well it's just too bad. You'll soon have these guys knocking at your door with your new obama care!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
where did you get the idea this was free? It will cost the working class
more to have Obamacare than what we are already paying for our private insurance. The ones that don't work and are on the welfare system gets theirs free.

calstorm
reply to post by spartacus699

 

But we aren't getting free healthcare. We are just mandated to PURCHASE insurance. And for many, those insurance premiums are going up. There are going to be co-pays.

All it does is mandate people have health insurance and limit your care. And care will NOT be equal.

I WISH we were getting what Canada has!

On other websites, a family of four who was earning $45000/year was paying $300/month to cover two adults and two children, is now having to pay $1000/month under penalty of a jail sentence. Now they have to make a choice between health insurance or feeding and clothing the best they can under threat of child neglect and being put in jail. All so Obama could promise his power base that they were going to get "free stuff".

I haven't followed the Obamacare saga in the US in any great detail.

I did see the President's television panel on the subject prior to the passage of the original bill. I posted at the time to the effect that I was impressed by America's legislators. They had differing views on Obamacare but the differences appeared to me at the time to be related to keeping costs down more than the sort of "attack on the republic" rhetoric that one hears from Alex Jones. (Love ya Alex, but not on this issue.)

I must say that the overall level of spite in American politics is a worry. I was watching Reuters livestream coverage of the votes in the Senate last night and heard the various speakers. Everyone sounded reasonable, but they were at complete loggerheads at a fundamental level.

Maybe I just don't understand the American system. In a parliamentary democracy the government gets what it wants unless there is a coalition government. In that case a compromise solution is agreed upon or there is an election. There is never gridlock, to my knowledge. There are parliamentary manouvers, filibuster style moves, etc., but the idea that the government would shut down is bizarre from a "parliamentary" point of view.

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by SaltireWarrior

 

I believe the real problem with all healthcare is the cost of it. I have no idea what X-ray and MRI's cost in your country, but I know that they are pricy here. There is no reason for an X-ray to cost $200. $2000 a night for a hospital stay, and that doesn't include anything they do to you that night.
My mother had radiation therapy for colon cancer. She had five treatment with something called a cyber knife. Basically it's an radiation machine mounted to a cnc machine. It moved around her body and shot her from several different directions. Where the beams cross is the target.
Would you believe that was 18k for each treatment? $80,000!!!!
This is the true problem with healthcare. If we can get the prices where they belong everyone could afford insurance.

I am very sorry for your mother suffering through cancer, it has affected my family also and I know how badly it sucks. I hope the treatment was successful and she recovers!

In the UK you wouldn't have had to pay a penny for the treatment. Other than what you contribute through taxes.

It sickens me to think people profit exponentially from others health issues and misery.

reply to post by SaltireWarrior


Thx dude. Unfortunately she died six years ago.
My fear is that everything our govt touches falls to crap. Yours may be wonderful but our will get run like amtrak or the post office..

reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71


Sorry for your loss mate.

Oh ours isn't perfect by any means at all, but it's better than the US's system. (I'm trying not to turn this into a UK v US pissing match haha)

reply to post by SaltireWarrior

(I'm trying not to turn this into a UK v US pissing match haha)

Says the person who started by comparing the US system (money) to the UK system (Life).

Most do not know the meaning of socialism

SaltireWarrior
I'm a socialist. I believe in socialism.

I would rather live in Scotland and have access to unlimited, "free" (taxes) healthcare at the point of use, than have to pay extortionate fees for a universal right.

I dont think some Americans realise how crazy and 3rd world their, "health care" system seems to the rest of the world.

No one. Not a Single person should be denied access to life saving treatment because they don't have enough digits on their bank screen.

Life v Money?

I choose life.

Hmm, interesting you would think we sound third world. I found some alarming things from Scotland's health care system...

Scottish Government Figures

“Alcohol misuse costs Scotland £3.6 billion per year, which equates to £900 per adult in Scotland whether they drink or not. “Smoking is the primary preventable cause of ill health and premature death and each year tobacco use is associated with over 13,000 deaths and 56,000 hospital admissions in Scotland. “That is why we are committed to introducing measures to further improve public health, such as minimum unit pricing and standardised packaging for cigarettes. “It is also encouraging that 62 per cent of adults meet the new recommended levels of physical activity, and this shows that efforts to get people more active are working.

So, even if you don't drink, you're still affected. But I suppose if you are socialist, then it's all good. But see, that's £900 per person unnecessary money wasted.

A quarter of adults (25 per cent of men and 24 per cent of women) said they were a current cigarette smoker with those aged 25 to 44 most likely to smoke at 29 per cent.

You mean that 1/4 of your population smokes..and for the other 3/4 who do not smoke, are affected also by unnecessary money wasted?

In addition, sixty-two per cent of adults meet the new physical activity guideline of 150 minutes of moderate activity or 75 minutes of vigorous physical activity per week with men at 67 per cent more likely to do so than women (58 per cent).

Population of Scotland... 63,395,574. That's still a lot less than the United States, but £3.6 billion a year is wasted because of alcoholism. Let's compare this...your GDP figures are...$2.375 trillion. That how much money Scotland produces every year. The United States national debt is that high and yet we still keep kicking along. But be don't boast of having 1/4 of our population that smokes. Interesting.

But in your GDP, who is paying the £3.6 billion a year for wasted money? This is £3.6 billion a year from the treasury of Scotland, wasted. It's not being returned. Your health care system is losing money, that's why Scotland is in a debate over whether or not to privatize health care. Someone has got to pay this £3.6 billion a year and what is Scotland doing about it?

Minister for Public Health Michael Matheson welcomed the figures but urged Scots to do more to take control of their own health.

Even your government is under the strain of taking care of Scots who are wasting £3.6 billion a year.

Health Scotland

Changes to legislation: There are outstanding changes not yet made by the legislation.gov.uk editorial team to Equality Act 2010. Those changes will be listed when you open the content using the Table of Contents below. Any changes that have already been made by the team appear in the content and are referenced with annotations.

You know, this is really a strange thing here, a government website with a page dedicated to Gypsy/Travellers...
Gypsy/Travellers

Wow. And you call us 3rd world? We don't have groups of people that are singled out on our websites. Is it so bad there that you have to have a special page dedicated just for Gypsies and Travellers?

I would like all Americans to take notice of this one, a European governmental health website has a page dedicated for a specific group of people. Scotland only decided to make them equal in 2010...amazing.

I am still shocked at this, that your government would even need a page dedicated for this. And you call us 3rd world...hmmmm.

reply to post by iwilliam


H.R.3962 - Affordable Health Care for America Act

To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.
Did Anyone read the title of this bill?
Just look at the last 4 words.
Wonder what purposes that may be.
We are screwed in the good ol US of A.

It is interesting that when a people stop trusting in God, they turn to trusting in Government.

Many people who want something for nothing, and that have the hope of a free ride would like government to feed them, clothe them, house them, keep them healthy and entertain them. Sucking on the teat of Uncle Sam is hardly the answer. Nor does it develop any sense of self worth in the individuals.

The "collective" might work well for the Borg, but not for Americans. We must find that spirit that dwelt within Colonel Travis at the Texas Alamo, when he drew the line in the sand with his sword and said, "Give me liberty or give me death!"

Cheers,

Bruce

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt



and thats a dam good 2 cents..

/standing golf clap

reply to post by WarminIndy


Here's the thing. Healthy people paying for the ills of unhealthy people is the very definition of health insurance regardless of who's coordinating the thing.

So you think (to use one of your examples) that Scottish non-smokers seeing a financial impact from smokers is evil because that impact is felt through a government program. News Flash for you: if you buy into one our private, free(ish) market health plans here in America, your premiums (which would be taxes in Scotland) are affected by the costs of treating smokers. Sure, you can point out that smokers pay more in premiums, but in Scotland they pay more in...you guessed it! Taxes. A pack of smokes in the UK runs the equivalent of about $13 - much of that is tax.

But you're objection to smokers affecting your prices is disingenuous. Your private health insurance premiums are determined by all sorts of horrible crap that your fellow insureds do to themselves: eating fast food, drinking, smoking, drug use, extreme sports, re-creating scenes from the TV show Jackass...all these things add to the claims experience of insurance companies and drive up premiums, just as they would drive up taxes in a nationalized system.

The big difference is that with a private company the people setting those premiums are driven by a strong profit motive.

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


exactly.

i think you've more or less nailed this..

it really is nothing more than the federal government, and the insurance industry writing themselves each a blank check, and forging the signature of the american people on it.

a "socialist" system almost would have been better...