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Nero Is Not The Beast !

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posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet



The beast and nero are one and the same. Read the scriptures that i already posted where the word of God says that the beast is a man and COMES OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT. It is plain as day. Why do you think it says the world will wonder when they see the beast that was alive, then dead, and now alive. This is the simple word of God. It is not complicated. You could show some people the color blue and they would argue it is red because they don't want to accept that it's blue.


Durwood, where in that verse you continue to use does it say that the Beast is a Man ?

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
you can not conclude that he is a man because it does not say that

Exactly where in that verse does it say that the beast is a man ?
You are adding to the word your personal interpretation.

You still have not addressed these issues:

It is appointed to man to die once, Nero was a man wasn't he ?

There are no men in the bottomless pit

Men are confined to HELL

If you can find "ONE" verse anywhere in the bible that shows a Man in the bottomles pit I will accept your arguement, but you have yet to do so.

I am about tired of this, you are truly blind, I have posted scriptures that prove my point, you have posted none, but yet you think you are correct, "unbelievable"






Believe me . You are no more tired of this than i am.

Hopefully this is the last time.

Rev 13:18

John has seen the beast in his revelation and didn't know what he saw ,so the Angel tells him about the beast. Read the whole 13th chapter , then we get down to the last verse.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of A man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

What is so hard to see that he tells him that the beast is a man? If the beast isn't a man, then why would he even bring it up?

Then in chapter 17:8 it is still talking about the same beast and we get even a better description of him in the next few verses.

8 The beast (man)that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast (man)that was, and is not, and yet is.

Please read verse 8 carefully. How can you NOT get it?

I have broken this verse down time and time again.


Then we go to verses 10-11 and it is still talking about the same beast.

10 And there are seven KINGS: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even HE is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

HOW CAN HE NOT BE A MAN. ? KINGS ARE MEN , NOT SPIRITS.

HE is the eighth king. and in Daniel it says the beasts kingdom is the fourth kingdom.

Evidently God is making an exemption here and allowing some one to come back to fulfill the scriptures.

I made none of these verses up. You will notice that none of them say...thus sayeth Durwood.

This is the word of God.




posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
Hi Durwood:

First, 616 and 666 are attempts to render into GREEK (not Latin) the Hebrew Gemmatria of : NRWN QSR (nun resh vav nun + qush samek resh) which adds gemmatrically to 666 or NRW QSR (without the final NUN in NERON) which adds gemmatrically to 616.

The Book of Revelation (Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite) was written in GREEK (very poorly writtten, I might add) and has NOTHING to do with Latin.

Where on earth did you get the connexion between Revelation's 616/666 and Latin when we are dealing with specially GREEK manuscripts? Don't you know the difference?

The original MSS sources of the badly written Greek of the book of Revelation were originally in Hebrew and Aramaic (e.g. such texts as I Henoch, Jubilees, The Testament of the 12, The Prophet Hezekiel chapter 39, Hezekiel chapters 40-45, The Curses of Babylon in Jeremiah, The Book of Daniel, The Curses of Babylon in Hezekiel, The Plagues of Egypt in Exodus 7 to 14, the daily morning and evening Tamid Hymns-Psalms sung in Herod's Temple for the liturgical cantilated texts for Sunday through Saturday, Malachi, Deutero-Zechariah chapters 9 through 12, Trito Isaiah and Joel etc.)

Saul of Tarsus was born in Cilicia (a Roman Province, now part of present day Turkey), a major port city from whence Mithraism and Stoicism was introduced into Rome.

Tarsus was primarily a GREEK SPEAKING city, not an Aramaic one, so Paul's first language would have been Greek and he would have picked up Aramaic only if he travelled to Palestine, since Aramaic was not widely spoken in Tarsus

The author of Acts (see chapter 5:34 ) who was probably the same person as the author of the 3rd gospel ("Luke") ---whoever he was--- claims in a speech placed into Paul's mouth that he "sat at the feet of Gamaliel" in Jerusalem (probably between AD 38 and AD 39) but we have none of this from Paul's own undisputed writings.

Even though Paul's Greek is peppered with Messianic aramaisms from the circle of the disciples, one cannot automatically assume that Saul's first language was Aramaic: he probably spoke it with a foreign accent, and probably not all that fluently.

Certainly the undisputed Epistles of "Paul" show him to be a man who could think and write in Greek from beginning to end.

No wonder he mixed so freely with the goyim-gentiles whom "Jesus" used to call "dogs" not fit to eat the "bread of the Children" (i.e. of the Jews).

Just a little background is all, you seem a mite confused about this book's (and its author's) original sitz im leben..





[edit on 15-11-2004 by Amadeus]




I appreciate your input here. This is something that i have not lightly researched. You say that John spoke Greek first? You are the only one that i have seen that says it. I searched out aramaic websites also. Unless you have better credentials than those who i got this information from, then i can't accept it. You must remember that those of us here in the west have gotten different slanted views and information than those in the east. Check out this website of this translator or the aramaic language into the english language. Read a lot of the pages of information he has put up. I'm probably gonna buy his translated bible just to compare differences in the scriptures.
Again, thanks for your input.

www.v-a.com...


Another Aramaic site
www.aramaicpe.../

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Durwood]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:37 AM
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Hi Durwood:

NOBODY knows who wrote the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite. John the Elder was not "one of the 12" and we cannot show conclusively that the superscription in some MSS of the book "of John the Elder" is the same person who wrote the epistles of 1, 2 and 3 John. Certainly the person who wrote the Greek versions of 1, 2 and 3 John wrote better Greek than the person who wrote the "Apocalypse. "

All we can tell from the "internal evidence" of the Apocalypse is that he must have been a Levite in the 2nd temple, since he makes over 350 direct references to 2nd Temple Liturgy in the book (e.g. the daily Tamid Psalms sung Sunday through Saturday) especially the Ten Days of Repentance Liturgies (the period between Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur was a period where a "revelation from YHWH for the coming year" was thought to be "revealed to the elect ones":

The Book seems to have been compiled during the Jewish War to give hope and strength to the "martyrs", i.e. the kind of material that is circulating now in Iraq among the "insurgents" who are likewise being occupied militarily by a "foreign power" much like Judaea was in the 1st century occupied by the Romans. The Apocalypse seems to think the Jews (hoping for the Appearance of their Messiah to end hostilities and issue in the Kingdom of Heaven) will win the war against Rome (i.e. "babylon") but look how that turned out...

The earliest extant texts that we have today are written in Greek, but the Greek of the Apocalypse is so bad and "full of grammatical howlers" (Chas. Kingsley Barrett) that the original author indeed must have spoken proto-Mishnaic Hebrew and some form of Judaean 1st century Aramaic and did not know enough Greek to put a coherent book together.

Also it is clear from what we have in the Greek text families of this book that there is no evidence the book we are reading is in any way finished or complete.

It may have been left as a fragment during the Jewish War when the tide turned against the Messianic Revolters (i.e. the Jews of Jerusalem, Masada, etc. and the Galilee between AD 66 and 72).

Most of the literary source material from the book (outlined in my previous posts on this thread) is Hebrew not Greek in origin (like the prophet Hezekiel or trito Isaiah) and Aramaic (like parts of the book of "Daniel") but there are some quotations from the Greek OT (the Septuaginta LXX) as well....

Clear as mud?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
Hi Durwood:

NOBODY knows who wrote the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite. John the Elder was not "one of the 12" and we cannot show conclusively that the superscription in some MSS of the book "of John the Elder" is the same person who wrote the epistles of 1, 2 and 3 John. Certainly the person who wrote the Greek versions of 1, 2 and 3 John wrote better Greek than the person who wrote the "Apocalypse. "

All we can tell from the "internal evidence" of the Apocalypse is that he must have been a Levite in the 2nd temple, since he makes over 350 direct references to 2nd Temple Liturgy in the book (e.g. the daily Tamid Psalms sung Sunday through Saturday) especially the Ten Days of Repentance Liturgies (the period between Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur was a period where a "revelation from YHWH for the coming year" was thought to be "revealed to the elect ones":

The Book seems to have been compiled during the Jewish War to give hope and strength to the "martyrs", i.e. the kind of material that is circulating now in Iraq among the "insurgents" who are likewise being occupied militarily by a "foreign power" much like Judaea was in the 1st century occupied by the Romans. The Apocalypse seems to think the Jews (hoping for the Appearance of their Messiah to end hostilities and issue in the Kingdom of Heaven) will win the war against Rome (i.e. "babylon") but look how that turned out...

The earliest extant texts that we have today are written in Greek, but the Greek of the Apocalypse is so bad and "full of grammatical howlers" (Chas. Kingsley Barrett) that the original author indeed must have spoken proto-Mishnaic Hebrew and some form of Judaean 1st century Aramaic and did not know enough Greek to put a coherent book together.

Also it is clear from what we have in the Greek text families of this book that there is no evidence the book we are reading is in any way finished or complete.

It may have been left as a fragment during the Jewish War when the tide turned against the Messianic Revolters (i.e. the Jews of Jerusalem, Masada, etc. and the Galilee between AD 66 and 72).

Most of the literary source material from the book (outlined in my previous posts on this thread) is Hebrew not Greek in origin (like the prophet Hezekiel or trito Isaiah) and Aramaic (like parts of the book of "Daniel") but there are some quotations from the Greek OT (the Septuaginta LXX) as well....

Clear as mud?






Yep, clear as mud.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 01:23 PM
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Evidently God is making an exemption here and allowing some one to come back to fulfill the scriptures.


No it is not evident, it is your assumption and is contrary to the word.

The word clearly states:

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I don't see any exceptions made in that verse, it is you that have taken upon yourself to make an exception for Nero to prove your point.

Beyond that I have posted verses that clearly state that Men go to "HELL" and that only "SPIRITS" are confined to the Bottomless Pit.

I have asked too many times for just "ONE, ONE, ONE" verse ANYWHERE in the bible that confirms your assumption and you have yet to provide "ONE" verse, you use the same old verse over and over and it does not say a Man shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit , but that "A BEAST" will. All other info concerning dates and times and numbers adding up mean "Absolutely Nothing" until you can prove that Men are in the Bottomless Pit.

I challenge you to find "ONE" verse anywhere in the bible other than the one you twist in Rev 17: to mean what you want it to mean, that confirms that a MAN can be confined to the Bottomless Pit.

Please do not refer to Rev 17 again as you have done over and over, provide other verses that confirm your assumption.
I know for a certainty that you can not provide any other verses for they do not exist, prove me wrong.
Do not use Rev 17, Do not use Rev 17, Do not use Rev 17, Do not use Rev 17
"FIND OTHER VERSES" All you have done is to take "ONE" verse out of context and have no other confirming verses



[edit on 17-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 11:59 AM
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I have shown you what the bible says. What is so hard for you to understand? I'm thru with this discussion. I'm tired of you calling the word of God a liar, so when he does appear as the antichrist maybe then you will see the truth, although you will be in denial i'm sure.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Durwood, you have shown nothing, all you have shown is how to twist Rev 17 to mean what you want it to mean.

I see you have not come up with any other verses, which proves my point."There Are No Confirming Verses" It is all your personal interpretation.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
According to scripture "SPIRITS BEINGS" are confined to the Bottomless Pit

What? It doesn't say that. It says a star fell out of the sky, opened 'the pit' (what ever that is supposed to be) and effectively released some horrible things, their King called the Destroyer, who is either also 'the beast' or the beast is somethign on its own. Why wouldn't any of those descriptions be metaphors for nero, who was destroing the christian community?


Clearly without a doubt these are SPIRIT BEINGS, for they resemble nothing on the Earth.

Again, why can't these be metaphors for nero and his troops and his weapons and torture chambers?



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 06:11 PM
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It is not a metaphor because it gives the number of the horsemen, 200 million, it gives a detailed discription of them, it tells where "THEY" came from, The Bottomless Pit, It states they have a King and also gives the Kings name
Apollyon. There is no mention of Nero whatsoever.
If you had been reading this post, you would know that there is several unanswered questions, one being "It Is Appointed For Men To Die Once"
Nero already died and he won't be back, plain and simple.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
It is not a metaphor because it gives the number of the horsemen, 200 million,

And you think this ludicrously high number is sensible to start off with? Not intended to mean 'oh man, so many horsemen, more than you can shake a stick at"?


it gives a detailed discription of them, it tells where "THEY" came from, The Bottomless Pit,

Doesn't the fact that a pit can't be bottomless indicate that he is infact speaking in non-literal language?


It states they have a King and also gives the Kings name
Apollyon.

Apollyon or 'the destroyer'?


There is no mention of Nero whatsoever.

Wasn't it supposed ot be written in exile, and exile nero sent the author to? Why would he write 'nero is a monster, but jesus is going to come out of the sky and save me and get rid nero'?



If you had been reading this post, you would know that there is several unanswered questions, one being "It Is Appointed For Men To Die Once"
Nero already died and he won't be back, plain and simple.

But this isn't something written in revelation no? And laz died and returned, so that seems to refute that.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Nygdan, Lazarus had not died according to the words of Jesus:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Next, 200 million horsemen is not a lot, there are more than 200 million people on the earth.
Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Maybe in your finite mind you can not imagine such a "GREAT HOST" but it is a small thing to God.
The Angels of God are innumerable

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Gods numbers far exceed your thinking concerning numbers.

The Bottomless Pit ? just because you can not percieve a Pit that has no bottom, ALL THINGS are possible in the Spirit.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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It can't be a coincidence that nero was thought to come back as the antichrist by the early church. Just do some research and neros name gets mentioned a lot as the antichrist. I will give you something else to think about.

11 thess. 2:6-7
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

In this chapter paul starts out talking about the coming of Christ and not to be decieved when that is. Then Paul starts talking about the antichrist.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That seems like a funny thing to say until you break it down. He is saying that the antichrist is already at work. Read it again. Lets make it so you understand it clearer.

For the mystery of iniquity is already at work. He that now lets iniquity work will let iniquity work until he is taken out of the way. So who was letting iniquity work in 54AD when Paul wrote this. Paul was telling them it was nero without mentioning his name. Pick up your bible and read it in there.

nero was letting iniquity abound until he was taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Then he will be revealed at a later time, but it wasn't his time to be revealed yet. Nero was in power then when Paul wrote this. Verse seven doesn't make much sense until you realize he was talking about nero. Go back and read the chapter yourself in the bible and you will see what i mean.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 02:11 PM
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Wrong, "He Who Letteth" refers to the Holy Spirit. and those scriptures have nothing whatsoever to do with Nero and there is no connection or reference to him whatsoever period.

You still have not explained how a man can come back from the grave and I have yet to see any verses that back up your claim.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Why in the world would they make mention of jesus waking some doode up?


Next, 200 million horsemen is not a lot, there are more than 200 million people on the earth.

Yes, and 200 million horsemen is a lot, its a pretty ridiculous number. Whats the planets population of horses? 200 million, NYC has around 10 million people in it, so this is talking about an army 20 times the size of the entire population of NYC, and acting as a single army? Its simply preposterous, its absurd on the face of it.




Maybe in your finite mind you can not imagine such a "GREAT HOST" but it is a small thing to God.

Again, 200 million men and 200 million horses. I can imagine it. its not an unimaginable number. Its just that its a silly number. He might've well have said 'like, trillions of horsemen man, trillions'.


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Gods numbers far exceed your thinking concerning numbers.

So? What does that have to do with anything? You are still talking about an army composed of 200 million men and 200 million horses. There are about 300 million people in the united states. I'm not saying its immposible, since one could just 'insert' a miracle at any point, but it seems much more likely tobe a 'lots and lots, so many you can't even imagine, like, like 200 million man!' type of thing to say.


The Bottomless Pit ? just because you can not percieve a Pit that has no bottom, ALL THINGS are possible in the Spirit.

Ok, if you want to just make it mean whatever you'd like it to mean fine. But thats hardly a very good treatment of the subject. he's talking about a beast with mutliple heads and crowns and pits that have no bottom that exist on earth and still have things come out of them and have kings ruling them and stars falling out of the sky and millions and millions of soldiers and all this other stuff, and it just doesn't seem like he wants anyone to take it as being literally true. It seems like he is using metaphors and hyperbole to illustratate his point and get his meaning across, which is especially sensible since he was jailed and imprisoned for having 'dangerous' ideas or whatever. I mean, if he were really prattling on about all this 'monster' mumbo jumbo and people could read between the lines then why would the romans have imprisoned him in the first place? Especially if this great war the ends in victory for the christians isn't supposed to happen in their lifetimes?

You still have not explained how a man can come back from the grave and I have yet to see any verses that back up your claim.

He has a dead man rise, not a sleeping man. Lazarus is dead, not sleeping.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Jesus said Lazurus was "SLEEP",
what part don't you understand ?
The 200 million horsemen are fallen angels, the bible says an innumerable host of angels, that means more than you can count. If you cannot produce verses that refute my claim I will no longer waste my time answering you.

Just because "YOU" don't think that there is 200 million horsemen, doesn't change the facts of what God has said.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Jesus said Lazurus was "SLEEP",
what part don't you understand ?

What part of particularly not impressive miracle do you not understand? Since when the heck is lazarus just sleeping? Since when is someone sleeping somethign that entire villages come out for? And doesn't his sister or some female relative bemoan that, had jesus gotten there sooner, then lazarus wouldnt' be, what, asleep? Why the heck would they care?

The 200 million horsemen are fallen angels, the bible says an innumerable host of angels, that means more than you can count. If you cannot produce verses that refute my claim I will no longer waste my time answering you.
In case you didn't notice, i haven't argued that it says anything different. I am saying that its not likely to literally mean 200 million horsemen. And sincewhen do angels ride horses? Are there horse angels too? Or are these or are these not supposed to be a large formation of cavalry troops?


Just because "YOU" don't think that there is 200 million horsemen, doesn't change the facts of what God has said.

Again, I am not disputing that the book says '200 million' anything. I am merely saying that, especially coupled with everything else, its likely to take it as hyperbole, exxageration for effect, or something like that, rather than expect that there will be some army with more horse and men than there are people in the entire United States.

Afterall, you were the one saying that nero is not the beast. I haven't seen you say anything in particular that indicates that he wasn't. What are you posting this for if you won't discuss the topic? If you disagree with my way of looking at it entirely, and indeed any take on it that is not dead on literal (even tho that apparently requires you to think that jesus woke lazaraus up, rather than revived him to life) then at least state that.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Nygdan, Lazarus had not died according to the words of Jesus:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.


Of course Lazarus was dead. If you would read the next three verses after your quote you would see this to be true. You can't "cherry pick" verses out of the Bible and make them work for you. You must take them in context.

John 11:11-14 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up." (12)His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." (13)Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. (14)So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead"

There is no need for question in this story. Lazarus was plainly dead. Keep reading and in verse 39 you'll see that Lazarus sister Marthan argued with Jesus about removing the stone away from the tomb. Why? Because his corpse was smelling pretty bad by then. All the signs of death were there.

Next subject: There are 2 camps in the 200,000,000 horseman army. The greater part being the scholars that believe that China and it's allies will field the large army mentioned in Rev. 9:16. The other side believes that this is an army of 200,000,000 angels.

Earlier scholars leaned more towards the angelic army since they couldn't conceive of an army of that size. Now, while the need for an army of this size seems laughable, it is not impossible at all. This wouldn't even be 1/4 of the population of China alone. One thing that puzzles me is the need for this large number of angels needed for killing.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by dbates]



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 05:16 PM
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Firstly, Lazurus "Sleeping" means he had not entered hell, nor had he been sent to heaven. This was done to show the power Christ had over death. Once a man goes to"Hell", he does not return until "The Day Of Judgment"


( Here Lazarus Is Seen In The Grave, It also confirms that men can not come back once in Hell ) Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abrahams bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my fathers house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


1 Co 15:55 O death , where is thy sting?, O grave where is thy victory? [grave: or, hell]
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a difference between "Death" and "The Grave"
Lazurus died(slept), but did not go to the "GRAVE", This is why Jesus said He was "SLEEPING"



Again, I am not disputing that the book says '200 million' anything. I am merely saying that, especially coupled with everything else, its likely to take it as hyperbole, exxageration for effect, or something like that, rather than expect that there will be some army with more horse and men than there are people in the entire United States.


No it is not a hyperbole or exxageration. It is exactly what the bible says it is, 200 Million Horsemen.




Re 9:11 And they (the 200 milion horsemen) had a king (a King rules over something, hyperboles don't) over them, which is the angel ( a heavenly being, not a hyperbole) of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon( the angels name is Abaddon,hyperboles do not have names) , but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]



Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years
Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
The Bottomless Pit has a "Door" a "Key" a "Seal" upon it, Satan will be "Chained" and confined there for 1000 years, this is not a hyperbole.



2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them (You can not command a hyperbole, only intelligent beings can be commanded) that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them(hyperboles cannot kill), but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle;(Hyperboles do not have a description) and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year(They have a specific time to be on the earth, hyperboles don't), for to slay the third part of men. [for an hour: or, at an hour]
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. This verse tells how many Horsemen there were, Who's confused here, you or God ?
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,(They are to target specific individuals, those who recieved the mark and those that would not repent) that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:


I think I have presented enough facts to back up my claim. If you still cannot see the Light with all the verses posted above, I will not waste anymore time trying to show you the facts. They are "CRYSTAL CLEAR"

God wrote exactly what he wanted us to know, "YOU" are the one that does not believe what is written.



[edit on 22-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Wrong, "He Who Letteth" refers to the Holy Spirit. and those scriptures have nothing whatsoever to do with Nero and there is no connection or reference to him whatsoever period.

You still have not explained how a man can come back from the grave and I have yet to see any verses that back up your claim.


Nowhere in that chapter or verse is Paul talking about the Holy Spirit. He was talking about the antichrist in that verse. To say he was talking about the Holy Spirit would be taking it out of context. You seem to have a difficult time reading the word of God. You can't just pull a verse out of the air when it is not in context with the verses around it. It was talking about iniquity abounding and who was letting iniquity abound. It was nero who was letting iniquity abound in AD 54 when Paul wrote this.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 05:59 PM
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2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:only he (The Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let (It Is God That "Letteth" things happen, not satan), until he ( The Holy Spirit) be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

It is the Holy Spirit that will be taken from the earth at the Rapture

It is after the one "That Letteth" is taken out of the way that the Anti-Christ is revealed, so the Anti-Christ can not be the one that "Letteth"




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