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Nero Is Not The Beast !

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posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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There are some here that have a belief that Nero is the Beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit according to Rev 17

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Firstly let's look at who gets confined to the bottomless

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]

Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony,"THE BEAST" that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

According to scripture "SPIRITS BEINGS" are confined to the Bottomless Pit

Further Proof are these verses

1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 ¶ And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. [for an hour: or, at an hour]
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.



Clearly without a doubt these are SPIRIT BEINGS, for they resemble nothing on the Earth. "THEY ARE NOT MEN"

Only Spirit Beings are said to be "CHAINED" according to the Bible


Here is where MEN are confined

Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Ps 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. [hell: or, the grave]

Pr 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.NERO was a "CHIEF ONE" of the Earth

Eze 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
NERO would be considered one of the "MIGHTY ONES" and was a TERROR to all the other Mighty Ones of the Earth

Mt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [offend…: or, do cause thee to offend]

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Clearly in this verse we see that "MEN" only DIE "ONCE"
So how is it possible for a MAN, NERO, to die twice

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were "wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed" and all the world wondered after the beast. [wounded: Gr. slain]
Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, "whose deadly wound was healed"


We now have scriptural proof that "SPIRITS" are in the bottomless pit and that "MEN" only die once and are confined to "HELL" until the Final Judgment

NERO was a MAN, he is now in Hell, awaiting the Judgement. Men do not return to the earth once they die and are not confined or sent to the bottomless pit as the above verses confirm.



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]




posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 03:14 PM
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Nero is dead, who says he was going to come back? Like a reincarnation or something. Please explain this a bit more, I don't understand the point, other than Nero was a man who is dead and isn't coming back. Sorry if I am missing something.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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If you take a look at my post on the "Numbers Of The Beast" you will understand. I did this post because some other members took my post off topic with this crazy nonsense of Nero being the Anti-Christ/Beast.
I did this post so that if they wanted to discuss it any further they could, without ruining my other post.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Woops...I was reading this as NETZERO is not the beast.....and I was gunna argue the point


(cuz netzero IS a beastly provider)

NEVERMIND!
:

[edit on 14-11-2004 by theRiverGoddess]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:26 PM
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Bible is a very confusing book to me, specially the Revelations.

So the Beast is not human at all?? If I understand that correctly.
Why is everyone looking for it amongst humans then?

Are the Beast and Antichrist the same person/being? And is this the person who will people worship instead of God?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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"The Beast" is the Spirit that will indwell the Man who most refer to as The Anti-Christ, who will rule the world as a God.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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``

I think the NERO rationalization is made by the Roman Catholics

there is also the 'model' which says that all the prophetic scriptual
events have been or are expected to be fufilled in 'duplicate'....
-a precessor drama and at another, later time, the 'predicted' event
and together (even thought seperated by time & space) create an
EPISODE in time - the believers' call The FULLFILLMENT.

following that logic or rational...Caesar NERO, at the beginning of
the Christian church movement...became the prototype Anti-Christ,
which the Christians anticipate will return at the ending of the
Christian church movement (not that NERO, but a similar attributed
NERO counter-part)

thats' if your into the allegory, metaphor, mystical revelations themes.

why not...its as good an explaiation as any

BTW, just ran accross this place: 144000.net...

here's another weaver of tapestries...keep you head above water, friend



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
There are some here that have a belief that Nero is the Beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit according to Rev 17

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Firstly let's look at who gets confined to the bottomless

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]

Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony,"THE BEAST" that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

According to scripture "SPIRITS BEINGS" are confined to the Bottomless Pit

Further Proof are these verses

1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 ¶ And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. [for an hour: or, at an hour]
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.



Clearly without a doubt these are SPIRIT BEINGS, for they resemble nothing on the Earth. "THEY ARE NOT MEN"

Only Spirit Beings are said to be "CHAINED" according to the Bible


Here is where MEN are confined

Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Ps 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. [hell: or, the grave]

Pr 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.NERO was a "CHIEF ONE" of the Earth

Eze 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
NERO would be considered one of the "MIGHTY ONES" and was a TERROR to all the other Mighty Ones of the Earth

Mt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [offend…: or, do cause thee to offend]

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Clearly in this verse we see that "MEN" only DIE "ONCE"
So how is it possible for a MAN, NERO, to die twice

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were "wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed" and all the world wondered after the beast. [wounded: Gr. slain]
Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, "whose deadly wound was healed"


We now have scriptural proof that "SPIRITS" are in the bottomless pit and that "MEN" only die once and are confined to "HELL" until the Final Judgment

NERO was a MAN, he is now in Hell, awaiting the Judgement. Men do not return to the earth once they die and are not confined or sent to the bottomless pit as the above verses confirm.



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]









I guess i'm just gonna have to post everything all, over again. You just don't get it do you. We will see if others believe the word of God since you evidently don't.

Rev. 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The whole chapter is talking about the beast and then the last verse ( 18 )
it says that the number of the beast is the number of a man. In other words it is saying the beast is a man.


Now lets go to chapter 17:8

8 The beast (man)that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast (man)that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Angel then says that the beast (man)was( before AD 96 when the Angel was telling him this) , is not ( is dead in AD 96 when the Angel is telling him this), and he SHALL ( future tense) ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.
In the same verse it says they that dwell on the earth shall wonder( be astonished or startled) when they behold the beast (man) who was alive, was dead , and yet is alive.

You can't get around the part where it says the world wonders ( astonished or startled in some translations) about the beast ( man ) that was alive , then dead , and yet is alive. The world wouldn't be astonished about a spirit, but they would about a man who lived 1900 years ago, and had died, yet was alive again.


Now we move on to the same chapter 17 to verses 10 and 11

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

He says five kings have already fallen ( are dead), one is ( he is king in when the Angel is telling him this) , and one is not yet come ( not here yet)


11 And the beast (man)that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

And the beast (man) that was alive, is not alive, even he is the eighth king, and is one of the former seven kings.

this is the simple word of God showing us that the beast is a man who comes out of the bottomless pit to become the eighth king, yet is one of the former seven kings. He was alive before AD 96 ,was dead in AD 96 , and shall ascend OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to become the eighth king.

Kings are people , not spirits

WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

FACT 1 - THE ANGEL SAID THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN REV 13:18


FACT 2 - HE WAS ALIVE BEFORE THE ANGEL WAS TALKING TO JOHN , BUT NOT ALIVE WHILE THE ANGEL WAS TALKING TO JOHN, AND IS GONNA ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT ( FUTURE TENSE ). AND THEIR CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE IN A.D.96


FACT 3 - HE WILL BE THE EIGHTH KING AND WILL BE ONE OF THE FORMER SEVEN KINGS. WHICH THE ONLY WAY THAT CAN HAPPEN IS IF YOU COME BACK FROM THE DEAD OR THE BOTTOMLESS PIT WHICH IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS GONNA HAPPEN.

Of course an evil spirit is gonna indwell this man. It says that the Dragon (devil) gives him his authority, but he will still be a person in the flesh. Quit calling the word of God a liar.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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More about why nero is the antichrist


Nero Caesar in aramaic is spelled NRON KSR. Aramaic letters have numeral values like roman numerals.
N= 50
R=200
O= 6
N= 50
K=100
S= 60
R=200
.....666


What do we know about the antichrist?

He had to be alive BEFORE AD 96 and nero was

He had to be dead in AD 96 and nero was

He had to be one of the fallen kings BEFORE AD 96 and nero was

His name has to add up to 666 in Aramaic which was Johns native language and neros does

The bible says that the antichrist is healed of a fatal head wound and nero had committed suicide with a sword to the neck.

The bible says he will come out of the bottomless pit

nero is considered to be the most cruel dictator who has ever lived.


Nero is the beast !!!

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Durwood]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 11:02 PM
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It seems that you are the only one that believes that Nero is the beast. continue to post your foolishness, it only shows people how confused you are.
All the facts are clear above. I don't think you will find anyone to agree with you, as it would show them to be as void of understanding as you are. Also, i am not calling God a Liar, "YOU ARE THE LIAR" God's word is true, you suffer from strong delusion.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

-This next verse clearly show that Nero cannot come back

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

ALSO PLEASE DO NOT PEPOST A WHOLE PAGE AGAIN, IT IS A SIGN OF IGNORANCE WHICH ALL EASILY SEE. IT WAS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY !



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 12:22 AM
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"It seems that you are the only one that believes that Nero is the beast."

How wrong you are! Many people in the world believe that nero is the beast because the bible CLEARLY shows that he is the beast and it shows HE WILL COME OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.

Also more and more people are gonna come to that truth because God is revealing it so we will know him and be prepared to face him. You might as well face the fact that this truth isn't gonna go away. One day your are gonna wake up and see this when he appears. You started this on this page so i had to present my case again is why i posted it all over again. Maybe i'll start my own thread called Nero is the beast..



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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Come, come now. Both of you, if you truly seek the truth then neither of you should be angry with the other. Logical discussion backed up with facts and reasoning is the only way to find the truth. If both of you believe so deeply in what you say, then one would imagine you would also believe in treating each other properly. And yes, I do understand righteous anger, but some situations you only close doors when using it. So you dont agree with each other, go through each others facts and show why you don't agree.

I must say, both of you have convincing arguments (seems neither of you agree on this).

Consider this though: If the beast is the spirit that will indwell the antichrist, does that not prove that he is not a man? Men cannot indwell others. Unless of course Nero wasn't truly a man, which seems highly unlikely.

I am coming to believe that the final world government will be the EU, a revived roman empire. Don't really feel like getting into a debate about that, but if that was the case, the leader would be a "Caeser" of sorts, if not called that publicly. Perhaps in a private ceremony or unofically he could be crowned Caeser Nero II or something of the sort. This does not account for the people being in wonder of him being alive.

In any case, there seems to be much logical evidence linking Nero and the Beast, but it seems he doesnt meet the criteria of being a spiritual being or having the capacity to indwell someone.

(Oh, and on a side note, other men have died twice such as Lazarus, which obviously was due to the power of Christ. One might argue that the same could be said about Nero if it was to fullfill God's plan, however hard that is to swallow. Imagine if one day he popped out of his tomb alive and wooed the post-christian europe into thinking he has come to lead them in their time of need? Something to ponder at least).

One last thing, that made me curious about something: What is the timeline on earth of Beast and Antichrist? As in, could the emergence of the antichrist and the indwelling of the beast within him coincide? That possibly would fullfill the necessity of a spirit being and a man at the same time. I'm gonna go pop open the ol' bible and see what I see.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Justinger
Come, come now. Both of you, if you truly seek the truth then neither of you should be angry with the other. Logical discussion backed up with facts and reasoning is the only way to find the truth. If both of you believe so deeply in what you say, then one would imagine you would also believe in treating each other properly. And yes, I do understand righteous anger, but some situations you only close doors when using it. So you dont agree with each other, go through each others facts and show why you don't agree.

I must say, both of you have convincing arguments (seems neither of you agree on this).

Consider this though: If the beast is the spirit that will indwell the antichrist, does that not prove that he is not a man? Men cannot indwell others. Unless of course Nero wasn't truly a man, which seems highly unlikely.

I am coming to believe that the final world government will be the EU, a revived roman empire. Don't really feel like getting into a debate about that, but if that was the case, the leader would be a "Caeser" of sorts, if not called that publicly. Perhaps in a private ceremony or unofically he could be crowned Caeser Nero II or something of the sort. This does not account for the people being in wonder of him being alive.

In any case, there seems to be much logical evidence linking Nero and the Beast, but it seems he doesnt meet the criteria of being a spiritual being or having the capacity to indwell someone.

(Oh, and on a side note, other men have died twice such as Lazarus, which obviously was due to the power of Christ. One might argue that the same could be said about Nero if it was to fullfill God's plan, however hard that is to swallow. Imagine if one day he popped out of his tomb alive and wooed the post-christian europe into thinking he has come to lead them in their time of need? Something to ponder at least).

One last thing, that made me curious about something: What is the timeline on earth of Beast and Antichrist? As in, could the emergence of the antichrist and the indwelling of the beast within him coincide? That possibly would fullfill the necessity of a spirit being and a man at the same time. I'm gonna go pop open the ol' bible and see what I see.




You are exactly right about it being a revived roman empire. I don't have time before i go to work this morning , but i will prove that to be true. Why is it so hard to believe that the beast is a man when the Angel told John it was indeed a man? Also it said he will be the eighth king and one of the former seven kings. Those kings weren't spirits. They were men. And to be the eighth king then he would HAVE to come back from the dead to be it. Which is exactly what the bible says when it says he will come out of the bottomless pit.

It talks about the beast in Daniel being this beasts Kingdom.

It says it is the fourth kingdom.

Notice when it talks about the man himself it says he is the eight , but his kingdom will be the fourth.

I will discuss the timeline more when i get a chance.

all the editing is because it's early and i'm half asleep yet.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Durwood]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Durwood]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
There are some here that have a belief that Nero is the Beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit according to Rev 17

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Firstly let's look at who gets confined to the bottomless

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]

Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony,"THE BEAST" that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

According to scripture "SPIRITS BEINGS" are confined to the Bottomless Pit

Further Proof are these verses

1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. [Apollyon: that is to say, A destroyer]
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 ¶ And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. [for an hour: or, at an hour]
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.



Clearly without a doubt these are SPIRIT BEINGS, for they resemble nothing on the Earth. "THEY ARE NOT MEN"

Only Spirit Beings are said to be "CHAINED" according to the Bible


Here is where MEN are confined

Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Ps 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. [hell: or, the grave]

Pr 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.NERO was a "CHIEF ONE" of the Earth

Eze 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
NERO would be considered one of the "MIGHTY ONES" and was a TERROR to all the other Mighty Ones of the Earth

Mt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [offend…: or, do cause thee to offend]

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Clearly in this verse we see that "MEN" only DIE "ONCE"
So how is it possible for a MAN, NERO, to die twice

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were "wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed" and all the world wondered after the beast. [wounded: Gr. slain]
Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, "whose deadly wound was healed"


We now have scriptural proof that "SPIRITS" are in the bottomless pit and that "MEN" only die once and are confined to "HELL" until the Final Judgment

NERO was a MAN, he is now in Hell, awaiting the Judgement. Men do not return to the earth once they die and are not confined or sent to the bottomless pit as the above verses confirm.



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]


again ALL copy-and-paste people...





posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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Groupies:

It was widely believed among those in the Roman Empire in AD 69 to 72 that Nero (who allegedly took his own life) would be "re-divivus" i.e. would "come back alive from the dead" and re-take control of the Empire within 20 years of his "death": this might be the basis of the belief that the beast would go underground only to resurface in the Apocalypse (Revelation).

Also the dual number 666 (NRWN QSR) and 616 (NRW QSR) both fit the name of the Emperor Nero: there are in fact TWO competiting "gemmatrial" number systems in Rev. chapter 13 (compare Vaticanus and Ephraemi with Alexandrinus and Bezar) and both show the variant spelling from Hebrew characters of the name NERO CAESAR.

People talk alot about 666 but few know that many important earlier Manuscript copies of revelation chapter 13 have 616 instead.

Of course, Nero himself as Emperor had something like 7 names and titles (including IMperator NERo Germanicus CLAVdius CAESAR AUGUSTUS etc. =NERO KLAU KAIS SEB GER AU on some of his coins from AD 54- 64) , but the two shortened forms in Greek listed in the two versions of Revelation (in the bad Greek of the two originally circulating text families) do fit the common appelation of the Emperor as he was known in the Syrian provinces.

The PRAETERIST approach to Revelation interprets the book as having been compiled from OT texts during the Jewish War (AD 66-70), with Nero as the Beast.

There is of course NO MENTION of the word "anti Christ" in the book of Revelation itself. That term was used by the author of I and 2 John (whoever he was, probably John the Elder)

If you want a list of other reasons why NERO fits the bill, or that the Jewish War against Rome in AD 66 (which the Jews lost) forms the praeterist "background" to Revelation, I can post this (again) !



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
Groupies:

It was widely believed among those in the Roman Empire in AD 69 to 72 that Nero (who allegedly took his own life) would be "re-divivus" i.e. would "come back alive from the dead" and re-take control of the Empire within 20 years of his "death": this might be the basis of the belief that the beast would go underground only to resurface in the Apocalypse (Revelation).

Also the dual number 666 (NRWN QSR) and 616 (NRW QSR) both fit the name of the Emperor Nero: there are in fact TWO competiting "gemmatrial" number systems in Rev. chapter 13 (compare Vaticanus and Ephraemi with Alexandrinus and Bezar) and both show the variant spelling from Hebrew characters of the name NERO CAESAR.

People talk alot about 666 but few know that many important earlier Manuscript copies of revelation chapter 13 have 616 instead.

Of course, Nero himself as Emperor had something like 7 names and titles (including IMperator NERo Germanicus CLAVdius CAESAR AUGUSTUS etc. =NERO KLAU KAIS SEB GER AU on some of his coins from AD 54- 64) , but the two shortened forms in Greek listed in the two versions of Revelation (in the bad Greek of the two originally circulating text families) do fit the common appelation of the Emperor as he was known in the Syrian provinces.

The PRAETERIST approach to Revelation interprets the book as having been compiled from OT texts during the Jewish War (AD 66-70), with Nero as the Beast.

There is of course NO MENTION of the word "anti Christ" in the book of Revelation itself. That term was used by the author of I and 2 John (whoever he was, probably John the Elder)

If you want a list of other reasons why NERO fits the bill, or that the Jewish War against Rome in AD 66 (which the Jews lost) forms the praeterist "background" to Revelation, I can post this (again) !




posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
Groupies:

It was widely believed among those in the Roman Empire in AD 69 to 72 that Nero (who allegedly took his own life) would be "re-divivus" i.e. would "come back alive from the dead" and re-take control of the Empire within 20 years of his "death": this might be the basis of the belief that the beast would go underground only to resurface in the Apocalypse (Revelation).

Also the dual number 666 (NRWN QSR) and 616 (NRW QSR) both fit the name of the Emperor Nero: there are in fact TWO competiting "gemmatrial" number systems in Rev. chapter 13 (compare Vaticanus and Ephraemi with Alexandrinus and Bezar) and both show the variant spelling from Hebrew characters of the name NERO CAESAR.

People talk alot about 666 but few know that many important earlier Manuscript copies of revelation chapter 13 have 616 instead.

Of course, Nero himself as Emperor had something like 7 names and titles (including IMperator NERo Germanicus CLAVdius CAESAR AUGUSTUS etc. =NERO KLAU KAIS SEB GER AU on some of his coins from AD 54- 64) , but the two shortened forms in Greek listed in the two versions of Revelation (in the bad Greek of the two originally circulating text families) do fit the common appelation of the Emperor as he was known in the Syrian provinces.

The PRAETERIST approach to Revelation interprets the book as having been compiled from OT texts during the Jewish War (AD 66-70), with Nero as the Beast.

There is of course NO MENTION of the word "anti Christ" in the book of Revelation itself. That term was used by the author of I and 2 John (whoever he was, probably John the Elder)

If you want a list of other reasons why NERO fits the bill, or that the Jewish War against Rome in AD 66 (which the Jews lost) forms the praeterist "background" to Revelation, I can post this (again) !



The 616 you are talking about is a latin hebrew interpretation. That is why i stressed using Pauls native tongue which is aramaic.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Justinger
Come, come now. Both of you, if you truly seek the truth then neither of you should be angry with the other. Logical discussion backed up with facts and reasoning is the only way to find the truth. If both of you believe so deeply in what you say, then one would imagine you would also believe in treating each other properly. And yes, I do understand righteous anger, but some situations you only close doors when using it. So you dont agree with each other, go through each others facts and show why you don't agree.

I must say, both of you have convincing arguments (seems neither of you agree on this).

Consider this though: If the beast is the spirit that will indwell the antichrist, does that not prove that he is not a man? Men cannot indwell others. Unless of course Nero wasn't truly a man, which seems highly unlikely.

I am coming to believe that the final world government will be the EU, a revived roman empire. Don't really feel like getting into a debate about that, but if that was the case, the leader would be a "Caeser" of sorts, if not called that publicly. Perhaps in a private ceremony or unofically he could be crowned Caeser Nero II or something of the sort. This does not account for the people being in wonder of him being alive.

In any case, there seems to be much logical evidence linking Nero and the Beast, but it seems he doesnt meet the criteria of being a spiritual being or having the capacity to indwell someone.

(Oh, and on a side note, other men have died twice such as Lazarus, which obviously was due to the power of Christ. One might argue that the same could be said about Nero if it was to fullfill God's plan, however hard that is to swallow. Imagine if one day he popped out of his tomb alive and wooed the post-christian europe into thinking he has come to lead them in their time of need? Something to ponder at least).

One last thing, that made me curious about something: What is the timeline on earth of Beast and Antichrist? As in, could the emergence of the antichrist and the indwelling of the beast within him coincide? That possibly would fullfill the necessity of a spirit being and a man at the same time. I'm gonna go pop open the ol' bible and see what I see.





The beast and nero are one and the same. Read the scriptures that i already posted where the word of God says that the beast is a man and COMES OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT. It is plain as day. Why do you think it says the world will wonder when they see the beast that was alive, then dead, and now alive. This is the simple word of God. It is not complicated. You could show some people the color blue and they would argue it is red because they don't want to accept that it's blue.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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Hi Durwood:

First, 616 and 666 are attempts to render into GREEK (not Latin) the Hebrew Gemmatria of : NRWN QSR (nun resh vav nun + qush samek resh) which adds gemmatrically to 666 or NRW QSR (without the final NUN in NERON) which adds gemmatrically to 616.

The Book of Revelation (Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite) was written in GREEK (very poorly writtten, I might add) and has NOTHING to do with Latin.

Where on earth did you get the connexion between Revelation's 616/666 and Latin when we are dealing with specially GREEK manuscripts? Don't you know the difference?

The original MSS sources of the badly written Greek of the book of Revelation were originally in Hebrew and Aramaic (e.g. such texts as I Henoch, Jubilees, The Testament of the 12, The Prophet Hezekiel chapter 39, Hezekiel chapters 40-45, The Curses of Babylon in Jeremiah, The Book of Daniel, The Curses of Babylon in Hezekiel, The Plagues of Egypt in Exodus 7 to 14, the daily morning and evening Tamid Hymns-Psalms sung in Herod's Temple for the liturgical cantilated texts for Sunday through Saturday, Malachi, Deutero-Zechariah chapters 9 through 12, Trito Isaiah and Joel etc.)

Saul of Tarsus was born in Cilicia (a Roman Province, now part of present day Turkey), a major port city from whence Mithraism and Stoicism was introduced into Rome.

Tarsus was primarily a GREEK SPEAKING city, not an Aramaic one, so Paul's first language would have been Greek and he would have picked up Aramaic only if he travelled to Palestine, since Aramaic was not widely spoken in Tarsus

The author of Acts (see chapter 5:34 ) who was probably the same person as the author of the 3rd gospel ("Luke") ---whoever he was--- claims in a speech placed into Paul's mouth that he "sat at the feet of Gamaliel" in Jerusalem (probably between AD 38 and AD 39) but we have none of this from Paul's own undisputed writings.

Even though Paul's Greek is peppered with Messianic aramaisms from the circle of the disciples, one cannot automatically assume that Saul's first language was Aramaic: he probably spoke it with a foreign accent, and probably not all that fluently.

Certainly the undisputed Epistles of "Paul" show him to be a man who could think and write in Greek from beginning to end.

No wonder he mixed so freely with the goyim-gentiles whom "Jesus" used to call "dogs" not fit to eat the "bread of the Children" (i.e. of the Jews).

Just a little background is all, you seem a mite confused about this book's (and its author's) original sitz im leben..





[edit on 15-11-2004 by Amadeus]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 08:09 PM
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The beast and nero are one and the same. Read the scriptures that i already posted where the word of God says that the beast is a man and COMES OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT. It is plain as day. Why do you think it says the world will wonder when they see the beast that was alive, then dead, and now alive. This is the simple word of God. It is not complicated. You could show some people the color blue and they would argue it is red because they don't want to accept that it's blue.


Durwood, where in that verse you continue to use does it say that the Beast is a Man ?

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
you can not conclude that he is a man because it does not say that

Exactly where in that verse does it say that the beast is a man ?
You are adding to the word your personal interpretation.

You still have not addressed these issues:

It is appointed to man to die once, Nero was a man wasn't he ?

There are no men in the bottomless pit

Men are confined to HELL

If you can find "ONE" verse anywhere in the bible that shows a Man in the bottomles pit I will accept your arguement, but you have yet to do so.

I am about tired of this, you are truly blind, I have posted scriptures that prove my point, you have posted none, but yet you think you are correct, "unbelievable"




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