Here's What To Do If You're In Public And Bullets Start To Fly

reply to post by DocHolidaze


One more thing I think fear has a pretty good hold on folks right now anyway and the more we hear of our enemies building up against us for our politicians mistakes, the riskier the US is becoming and the loose cannons getting ready to or going off. What if the obamacare makes people on antipsycotic meds to suddenly lose their prescriptions? Things may get worse and I think that it is time for all of us to learn a thing or two from those who have been in these types of death defying situations and have lived to tell about it, to teach us what they know to stay alive and to protect our loved ones in public if we are in the wrong place at the right time. *(Wheuu! Need a breath!)

reply to post by GunzCoty


Most of us dont have a friend at our side, thats a whole lot of paper work. So how to survive in public without a weapon against a murder? What do they target? Who do they target? How do some people escape while others die?

I was also surprised once,by how little people seem able to "hit the deck" in a dangerous situation.
I was at a restaurant once when some customers who had just left threw a brick through the window-in a fraction of a second my mind said:"They could have guns+start firing at people inside" and I grabbed my oldest gal who was just a toddler then+pulled her under the table with me.

After a minute or 2 of nothing else happening,I peeked out-to see everyone else just sitting in their seats,staring at the curtain billowing because of the smashed window.
The brickthrowing incident was in response to a guy of one race asking the customers seated next to them to refrain from the bad language they were using-and as racial hate crimes in my country often leads to murders+shootings-i was thoroughly astounded that everyone was just sitting there like rabbits in the headlights-if those guys that just left had some guns+fired off some shots into the restaurant,it would've been a miracle if no one got hit.
I literally acted in seconds,and found at least concealment.I'm surprised it was not that instant+instinctive for most of the customers-my country had been through a long terror campaign of bombings+public shootings by ANC terrorists-yet the other diners seemed to be sedated,I'm serious,sedated.

I went back to college when I was in my late 30s. I have a conceled carry permit and I was also a certified armed security guard. Right after the Virginia Tech shootings one of my professors asked if I was carrying at the time and I replied "Yes." He said "Good" and then asked me what I would do if something like VT happened there. That stumped me. I carried because my classes went late into the evening and the campus was in a nasty section of the City and I was worried about a threat in the parking lot on the way to my car, not one in class. When I thought it over I came up with the following things.

1. I would not go after the shooter.
2. I would try to find a place with cover and hole up.
3. I would try to get as many people with me to do the same as possible and provide cover fire for them if necessary.
4. I would try to establish communications with the Police.
5. I would wait it out and only allow a uniformed Police officer to disarm me.

My Rules of Engagement would be to fire at no one unless they fired at me or I witnessed them firing at an unarmed person.

In a situation like this you have no idea who the bad guys are unless you actually see them do something. Any person with a weapon could be in the same situation as I am in. By establishing communications with the Police, I can let them know where I am and that I am armed and not a threat. I could also provide information to them, but, most of all they can let me know when they are getting to where I am so that I can place my weapon on the ground, step away from it and not get shot.

antar
reply to post by DocHolidaze

 

Ah ok thanks for the clarification, i didn't take it that way, but I can see how it is portrayed a bit like that they are more competent in taking a shooter down or the LEOs than the responsibility of the people being killed. I have often wondered if something like this came down if it would be possible to just gang up on the shooter and take him down rather than allow everyone to be killed.

Good questions indeed. Perhaps can take cues from past events, such as included below.

Here's some stories where armed citizens helped to thwart mass shooters:
Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen
Nine Shootings That were Stopped...

reply to post by JIMC5499


Hum, those are the exact directions they give for school shooters.

As for the advice on not shooting randomly, that was solid because as you said, they may also be just like you a potential victim.

It would be pretty clear if it were a single shooter that openly enters the room or stands up as in a movie theater, but what you said made me think that the armed citizen could be a good shot on the range but not mentally ready for this kind of action, they could potentially or accidentally shoot civilians too.

So what you are saying if I am right is that just because you have the right to carry, does not mean that in every situation you would fire your weapon right?

Things to think about.

reply to post by Raxoxane


That is an amazing story, you are a good Mama.

Kind of makes me think about my theory of humans, some are just not developing souls but rather the voters. The voters are people who are not proactive in their own lives, they have to wait to be told what to do, what to wear, eat, etc. and it is even a deeper spiritual meaning than what I am conveying right now. I think people are afraid to look the fool too, so for you it was a no brainier for them afterwards they recalled it as "The crazy woman who ducked under the table for a 'brick'...

Good experience because it showed your bravery and quick thinking.

reply to post by dreamingawake


Most of the stories in your link were about responsible citizenship who happened to be gun owners. Now why are these not the types of stories that are heralded by the press as examples of how guns save lives and just because you have a right to carry does not mean you are ready willing and able to go kill people.

I think it was 9 stories of how guns saved lives...

reply to post by antar


Walk towards the concentration of screams and gunfire never away from.
fks peoples minds up when ya do this sort of thing.

reply to post by superluminal11


Have you seen where this was wise other than in a Segal or Schwarzeneger movie? Their mind would already be messed up to go kill people anyway, so how would this help? Not being nasty just trying to sort things out here on how to actually survive an attack in a public place.

Every situation is unique and as someone who is both a CC holder and disabled I've often wondered how I would respond in such a situation. The rules given are indeed common sense and since I usually travel with my wife my first concern would be for her naturally. Once under cover I would try to ascertain who the shooter was, what he's shooting with and possibly what his intentions are next. If they're coming my way I can't see moving far so I would position myself to gain the advantage of surprise to get the first shot. I might also look for some object to toss to create a noise away from my position to draw their attention elsewhere.

My problem is that I can't run so I'd have to stay around and face the situation in most likelihood. At that point what type of weapon the shooter has would dictate my response. If they have a rifle or shotgun it would be suicidal to engage them at any distance. It's critical to know what your limitations are with your concealed carry piece. Never shoot beyond the range you know you can place every shot within a 10" circle. For me that would be 15 yards tops though I know guys who can shoot effectively from 50 yards with their carry weapon.
To engage a shooter so armed I would have to close the distance from which they would have the opportunity to shoot at me. You need to be aware of your environment and what it offers in the way of cover and concealment while moving.

If they were only using a pistol I might be inclined to engage them from a distance to simply draw their attention away from other potential victims and to force them to seek cover. At this point they may consider leaving to save their own skins. This gives police time to arrive and others time to get away. Again, it would depend on whether they were ready to fire upon innocents in which case a shot in the air would distract them and possibly save others but at the expense of drawing attention to myself.

Holding a gun in your hand when police arrive might be a stupid idea as well. I would either conceal in on my person or possibly ditch it rather than risk being mistaken for the attacker. One can't be too careful about that either.

The only thing I would add to the rules is always be aware of your environment and try to remember where doorways, low walls and other routes of escape or cover are nearby. Remembering where you've just come from might save your life one day, who knows?

you forgot...

6. Assess for sure that the perpetrator is randomly shooting innocent
people, draw your weapon, drop to your knee, and take a head shot.


that's what I would do

JIMC5499
I went back to college when I was in my late 30s. I have a conceled carry permit and I was also a certified armed security guard. Right after the Virginia Tech shootings one of my professors asked if I was carrying at the time and I replied "Yes." He said "Good" and then asked me what I would do if something like VT happened there. That stumped me. I carried because my classes went late into the evening and the campus was in a nasty section of the City and I was worried about a threat in the parking lot on the way to my car, not one in class. When I thought it over I came up with the following things.

1. I would not go after the shooter.
2. I would try to find a place with cover and hole up.
3. I would try to get as many people with me to do the same as possible and provide cover fire for them if necessary.
4. I would try to establish communications with the Police.
5. I would wait it out and only allow a uniformed Police officer to disarm me.

My Rules of Engagement would be to fire at no one unless they fired at me or I witnessed them firing at an unarmed person.

In a situation like this you have no idea who the bad guys are unless you actually see them do something. Any person with a weapon could be in the same situation as I am in. By establishing communications with the Police, I can let them know where I am and that I am armed and not a threat. I could also provide information to them, but, most of all they can let me know when they are getting to where I am so that I can place my weapon on the ground, step away from it and not get shot.

I agree whole heartedly! My weapon is the absolute last option to protect me and mine. However; (hahah isn't there always a however?) If we were unable to flee the scene would be my first choice... If we were holed up in a group as the known B.G. (s) approached.... Ak-47 seems to indicate they are not on our side in the USA, I would not wait until they shot first. Jeez I hate taking a pistol to a rifle fight; odds are not good unless you can surprise or get close...to darn close IMO! I train at 30 yards with a pistol and out to 350 yards with various rifles but those are targets smaller than man size... I just know that (whatever) I will go down fighting instead of disarmed an on my knees waiting for a bullet...

Now having said all the above I have carried or been around firearms all my life and have never had to pull one on anyone for any reason except during my great patriot war some 40 odd years ago..... I do run scenarios and what if's and try to be aware of my surroundings maintaining good situational awareness but so should anyone who is out and about IMO.

Thank you for the answers so far, gives me much to think about. Good to see responsible clear thinking level headed solutions to the questions being asked here.

Laying down on the floor = really bad idea.

antar
This rare, but terrifying scenario is something that all of us should consider with the prevalence of mass shootings in modern times.

I don't think it is that rare, actually.

On a somewhat unrelated note, my dad was involved in one in the 90's and a friend of mine was over watching Batman.

reply to post by superluminal11

Mr Norris oh hai we r huge fanZ of yours! Heard you died,glad 2 hear u bettaz now

reply to post by antar

Hi antar,thank you-yes I'd Did occur to me afterwards-the other diners must've thought I was the wacky one


If they thought at all-the whole thing was just so odd,how they all seemed genuinely sedated-and here's the oddest-my ex-husband,the father of my eldest daughter-was one of the sedated! He too,just Sat there-when my daughter+i surfaced,he did'nt even say anything to me,just looked sort of dazed-even when I said:"Why did'nt you go to ground? They could've had guns+fired into here!" He just shook his head in a kind of dazed way-mumbled something+started eating again.Odd.
Anyway I wish you a happy day.

antar
One thing I wonder when there are multipal shooters committing the terror event, how to stay safe from the authorities when they come in? They say that you should place your hands on your head and head towards them, but that just seems like another chance to get between them and the bullets flying by the bad guys. Any suggestions?

Lets talk about this because I for one would like to survive a shooting spree but more importantly, to have drills with my family for public places. I mean we have talked about it happening at school, but not other public places.

What about the handicapped or disabled, the very young?

edit on 29-9-2013 by antar because: (no reason given)

If your in a position when authorities are entering hit the deck an stay there, in the heat of the moment if you rush towards your rescuer they may mistake you for a threat, and not meaning to.

This was what we were taught as MP's, through lessons learned from when a prison was taken over in the south (spacing the incident name atm) more guards were killed then the bad guys were for running towards their rescuers.

Grim

antar

1. Hit The Deck!
This seems like common sense. Matter of fact, all of these will seem like common sense. But you wouldn't believe how many people hear gunfire in a public place and just stand around, heads all in the air, bewildered, looking this way and that.
Get low! The first thing you need to do is remove your dome from the where the bullets will be. So ... lower it.

I read a report recently that interviewed airplane crash survivors. Apparently, a vast majority of them said that as they were escaping the plane, they saw other passengers, just sitting there, completely in shock and immobilized. Complacently sitting in their seats, buckles fastened.


Kind of scary, isn't it?


- SN