Obamacare installs new scrutiny, fines for charitable hospitals that treat uninsured people

reply to post by Aliensun

The situation is that millions of people will not have the money to pay for any form of health insurance

Millions of people ALREADY don't have the money, thanks to corporate greed and insurance declines...

this HELPS them to get it.

The ONLY thing happening here is that INSURANCE companies can't deny people coverage, they can't put a 'cap' on the lifetime payout, and that people will have insurance to cover costs.

It's already the taxpayers who are subsidizing the indigent...
this just creates limits on the PROVIDERS of insurance, medical care, and employee benefits so that NO ONE goes without medical care.

Please don't encourage the nonsense in the OP.

wildtimes
Incorrect libel and disinfo AGAIN.
I myself have had more than one employer who paid the ENTIRE medical insurance premium. And those that did not paid at least PART of it.

You are lying, and you are out of line. Show us some UNDISPUTED sources for your blatant hatred and labelling of this law as a "monstrosity." I'm fine with you not liking Obama...I, too, am disgusted with him, but you spreading this kind of nonsense is disingenuous.

There was SOME noise made that SOME members of Congress WANTED to exempt themselves, but it is not the law as of now. NOR are giant corporations exempt. STOP with the disinfo....
or PROVE that the info I posted is incorrect.

edit on 9/29/13 by wildtimes because: most of the post didn't show up???

Again, you are wrong.

The Office of Personnel Management issued a ruling regarding the very subject of whether Congressional staffers could keep their employer-subsidized plans, in which they used a loophole in the bill to allow it.

From the PPACA (loophole in bold):

(2) EFFECTIVENESS.—The amendments made by this section
and section 7102 shall be effective and shall be taken into
account in determining whether a manufacturer is deemed to
meet the requirements of section 340B(a) of the Public Health
Service Act (42 U.S.C. 256b(a)), notwithstanding any other provision
of law.

In the event that you have not obtained a copy of the laws involved, here are some links for you to have for your own records:
PPACA (Obamacare)

Certified Full-Text of the Affordable Care Act

Certified Full-Text of the Reconciliation Act

So, Congress, and it's employees are indeed exempted from the PPACA (Obamacare).

And since you're so keen on sources:

Reuters

CBS News

Politico

Roll Call

FreedomWorks

California Healthline

And of course, the best of all:
OPM.gov


I would also like to point out that I never called YOU a liar, nor did I make any attempt to insult you on a personal level as you did to me in your posts (your reference to my bio). I would hope that you could manage to engage in a discussion with someone that respectfully disagreed with you in a mature fashion.

I won't be returning to this thread because quite frankly, I've spent far too much of my Sunday morning arguing against this insane law and the cowards who enacted it.

After a while, banging your head against a brick wall starts to hurt a bit.

Take care.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

Pay up or die said the beast who sat on the throne.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Do you even read your own sources?
This is extracted from the Reuters link you provided:

STILL MUST PURCHASE PLANS

Lawmakers and staff still must purchase plans on the exchanges for coverage that starts in January, OPM said, and they will not be eligible for tax credits to offset premium payments. These credits are the main federal subsidy mechanism for all other health plans purchased through Obamacare exchanges due to open in October. These tax subsidies fall off quickly as income rises.

I just looked at the REST of your links, too.
They are ALL from early August.
And they ALL say that Congress members are NOT ELIGIBLE for tax subsidies, and must participate in the system.
That is....they are NOT EXEMPT.

reply to post by wildtimes


Okay, THIS is my final post here (I promise).

It is NOT tax subsidies that they argued for (and were granted via the OPM proposal which does not have to added to the law itself *please read about the loophole in my previous post*), it is EMPLOYER subsidies that they wanted to be able to keep, which Obamacare takes away unless the loophole is invoked. The government pays for 75% of their premiums, which is a luxury that no other citizens are able to enjoy.

They are not eligible for tax exemptions due to premiums, but their plans are not affected by Obamacare, unlike the plans of ALL other Americans.

Good God in heaven, this is NOT that hard to understand, is it? (Don't bother answering that, I won't be around to read it).

reply to post by wildtimes


That`s kind of a non issue though, isn`t it? law makers and their staff probably make too much money to qualify for premium reimbursement through tax credits.
I think they are just making an issue of it to distract attention from something else, like the $10,000 deductibles that minimum wage workers will have to pay and not be reimbursed for.

reply to post by Taissa


Your post rings all too clearly and unfairly common.
My job has also suffered from this very same reason, it makes things unbelievably stressful.
These hospitals are doing God's work. How could a doctor turn away a patient in need? Uncle Sam is too big for his britches.

reply to post by gladtobehere

Look to be honest,this sounds like a form of depopulation agenda-trying to penalise hospitals like these could lead to many people dying-and which ones,the wealthy,the successfull yuppies-no,the poor,and Joe+Jill Average-as usual they will be the ones to suffer and die.
Almost like its a facilitator of a form of utilitarian bio-ethics,with only the financially well-off being of adequate value to have adequate or high quality medical care-except the worker bees DO have value to society,so it would be dumb to bring in a system that could be so damaging to so many.Well I'm not American,maybe I am misunderstanding what Obamacare is all about-but from what I've read on this site-it seems to be very bad news for Joe+Jill Average,and worse for the poor,just a very bad idea in general.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Trust me I am one of those that have dissected Obamacrap from beginning to current affairs, you are right on what you are posting, sadly is many that still believe in the lies that the Obamacrap is telling in order to keep them going.

That is ok, you can not argue with those that do not want lot learn the truth I learn that a long time ago here in ATS.

Getting the insurance policies is one thing. Great !! ... Go and get 'em !!

These new things are not like HMOs. (are they ?)

PAYING the co-payments and the higher deductibles on the 'cheaper' plans is the problem.

Even the 'cheap' policies that get 'subsidized' carry high deductibles that are thousands of dollars.

'Poor' people (that can't 'qualify' for Medicaid) will not have money to even exercise the insurance coverage.

Now what ?

And I wonder if the IRS is still going to limit the medical deductions on Schedule A.

No one has ever gotten a full deduction on 'out of your pocket' medical expenses.

These problems alone could kill millions.

We all need to remember this classic example of hiding the truth in plain sight......

"Twilight Zone" promo for "To Serve Man"

It was a *cookbook* you idiots !!!!!......


^^^^ This could be the grand illusion of ObamaCare ^^^^
~courtesy BHO Productions Inc.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks for the useless advice about fact checking.Keep reading the MSM advice on the plan,get the liberal view of how wonderful this piece of crap is.I have a copy of the bill. I've had it since it passed.i read some of it everytime I want to remind myself of how out of control our government really is.

This bill is as unconstitutional as the Patriot act, it just violates different admendments.Try reading the actual bill instead of taking the talking heads word for what is in it.How wonderful it must be for you to believe what the media leads you to believe. USA Today is a source .....really,that would be funny if it weren't so sad.

reply to post by lonegurkha

This bill is as unconstitutional as the Patriot act, it just violates different admendments.Try reading the actual bill instead of taking the talking heads word for what is in it.How wonderful it must be for you to believe what the media leads you to believe. USA Today is a source .....really,that would be funny if it weren't so sad.

It's "unconstitutional"....WHY?

Dude. I'm not an uninformed teeny-bopper. You go ahead and post some links that refute what I've posted...and then, ....
sure, I'll join your camp.

The rhetoric about this ACA is ridiculous. And the Republicans have just SHUT DOWN the entire government because they are 6th-grade playground BULLIES.

THIS LAW does NOT hurt the normal, working folks. It only hurts the insurance companies, the employers that fudge on benefits, and the medical industry that overcharges and under-delivers.

PLEASE:
SHOW ME!!! Why should I believe you?

Are you a business owner? A rich fat-cat? THIS LAW DOES NOT HURT the 'peasants'.
It REGULATES the ridiculous insurance industry.....which has NO BUSINESS playing the 'stock market' with the premiums they collect.

You guys sure there is nothing in there about implantable devices??

ProfessorChaos
It amazes me that the average citizen can't see that Obamacare is an oxymoron.

Obamahellcare would be more accurate.
It's doom, but I fail to see the porn aspect.

reply to post by gladtobehere


We are in for a helluva ride folks.

The Archbishop of St Louis said regardling the contraceptive mandate. (paraphase) We won't pay the fines, we won't close our hospitals, we will go to prison if necessary.

One sixth of the nation's hospital beds are in Catholic hospitals.

This will just stoke the flames of a huge fight: The Catholic Church of the United States vs. The Government of the United States.

I tnink this is immoral as hell and whether or not you can fine basis for/against it in the Constitution I really don't care. Catholic faith professes that it is wrong to obey unjust laws. Fining someone for providing charity is unjust.

Put your dukes up Obama the Catholics don't like seeing our First Amendments stomped on and you are in for the fight of your life.

We may have to die for what we believe, but we have many martyrs who did the same and this is good vs evil.

Archbishop Carlson speaks at Jefferson City rally 33 second YouTube Video

alienreality
The pattern I have noticed with this abortion called obamacare, is that it was created to PUNISH Americans.. Both business and individuals.. It is totally geared for punishment, infringing on rights and liberties, and is one gigantic package of "Treason"

I disagree. I believe Obamacare is not to punish us, but to be the largest government money making machine ever created. Of course it will cause lots of hardships and pain for business and individuals to reach this end. It will cause us to get worse health care at more expense, cause nightmares for employers and established health care practices and insurance.

Wait.. here's a quote Dr. Barbara Bellar that says it best: ( Obamacare in one long sentence)

So let me get this straight. (This is a long sentence.) We’re going to be gifted with a healthcare plan we are forced to purchase, and fined if we don’t, which puportedly covers at least 10 million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a congress that didn’t read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a president who smokes, with funding (laughing & applause) same sentence – with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, for which we will be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted social security and medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese and (laughing & applause) and financed by a country that’s broke. (laughing & applause) So, what the blank (laughing & applause) could possibly go wrong?

lybio.net...

reply to post by wildtimes


The Bill is unconstitutional because it forces you to have healthcare.Here's a link to the bill,try actually reading the bill and not listening to media retoric.Healthcare act

If you don't want to have this then you pay a penalty to the government.So no matter what YOU want you have to pay.It's an unfair tax,and just another way for them to get their filthy fingers deeper in our pockets.There are many questionable portions of this bill that are actually very unfair to alot of people.

Who pays for the "subsidies"? Guess what you do. Think about this a bit and then think about all the people who can't afford this piece of crap.The numbers don't work without a huge tax increase.There will be huge tax increases at the national and state level to pay for the subsidies.It ain't free we will all have to pay.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Oh goodie. I see all the usual coercive measures are in place to make this work. Fines and fines and more fines.

And so will end the tax write off incentive for hospitals to treat the poor and indigent. It figures. The government hates tax right offs anyway.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


The dems are looking so bad these days that all the republicans will have to do is have good satirical comedians running against them in the next election.