rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

reply to post by BardingTheBard


This post, www.abovetopsecret.com... deserves a thread all of it's own.

Whilst I may not agree with all of it's content it still raises many issues that people refuse to acknowledge and talk about.

Merlynn
reply to post by snowen20

Well, how do you teach a woman not to get raped? You can do everything possible and it still may happen.

You can not teach a woman not to get raped . She can do everything taught and still find herself in a place where she has no control. At home, in a park, at a party. The risk for rape, the risk for murder, the risk for many thing is always there out of her control... She should know this I would think, however knowing and expecting it to happen are two different things.

Women are taught not to be in these situations, guys need to realize even when women are in these situations, they don't take advantage of it.

You are right, women are taught not to be on such situations, and "guys", are taught not to treat women like Sh**...... In fact......... Are even taught in most cases not to take advantage of a woman who are at a disadvantage.

However, lo and behold, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink. the woman was taught not to place herself in a situation that has, as Taoist put it, the "potential", and on the other side of the coin, men for the most part are taught to not take advantage of a woman. Those individuals that make the choice to A. Rape, or B. place themselves into an unpredictable situation did just that, Made a choice. After all its fairly safe to say that both parties have had more than enough ethical dogma placed upon them throughout their lives to know right from wrong.

Now.....That being said........ I do believe that there is a growing trend of males that go out to parties intentionally seeking to take advantage of women who are at a disadvantage. The question is, where does this come from? My opinion on the matter is Television first and foremost.

Especially things like MTV or essentially any series that caters to the lowest common denominator be they male or female. Dramatizing the idea that its cool to watch a "chick" get drunk and maybe get a little something in the process is terrible, and its being taught to children at an earlier age..

But what exactly aside from that is being taught to children? Well, on the male side its the taking advantage of disadvantageous women. But look at the other side, girls are being taught more and more that casual and unrestrained sexual behavior and the concept of sleeping around with whoever is perfectly acceptable. It is not.
*NOTE.. Do not take to mean "she deserved it" There is no excuse for rape. I merely mean that the situation is of such a nature in those scenarios that when you add the whole thing together bad things are more likely to occur.

My point here is the following: I agree with proper education, and that people should be taught right from wrong across the board. But, in the aforementioned example, both parties are being conditioned to behave in a manner that supports a higher potentiality for disaster, and as such BOTH parties need to be properly educated.

Everything else I agree with you on, and we probably agree more than we realize, but have altogether separate ways of getting to the point.

Thank you.

reply to post by Panic2k11

No, not all of them. If you would read and listen, many are rapes of opportunity. Some men are taught growing up that a passed out female is free game. She shouldn't have been drinking, she must want it, she can't say no. These all justify the guys bad behavior. It is psychology.

FreedomEntered
reply to post by Merlynn

 

That's true it happens often with relationships that have some form of domestic violence.

It can also happen when a woman is drugged/drunk or vulnerable and alone with a man where there is no trust.

And these women find it very hard to come forward and admit sexual assault, they also find it hard to come forward and say they have been hit at all.

Immense shame surrounds women who go through this. So its a difficult one.

edit on 27-9-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

This right here could be said about men too. It's even harder for men to come forward when they are in an abusive relationship because some people assume that they can't be victims. They are laughed at if they even hint they are being mistreated by a woman.

I've read some testimonies of male assault victims where they had been drinking and women took advantage of them, who were too ashamed and afraid to come forward because no one would believe them or just laugh at them.

Abuse is abuse, no matter who the perpetrator is or which gender they are.

Male Victims of Domestic Violence

Battered Men - The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence
Battered Men's Stories

Merlynn
reply to post by Panic2k11

 

No, not all of them. If you would read and listen, many are rapes of opportunity. Some men are taught growing up that a passed out female is free game. She shouldn't have been drinking, she must want it, she can't say no. These all justify the guys bad behavior. It is psychology.

Sadly, you are correct.

However, the amount of men who are taught growing up that "a passed out woman is free for the taking", is probably about as small as the amount of women who are taught growing up that "sleeping your way to the top is how good business is done."

Its just not the case... IMO..

reply to post by snowen20

Yes, I realize we agree on most issues, I just wanted to make my point. And I agree with clothing, even though it doesn't mean that person is asking for it. I've noticed through the years, as I've bought clothes for my kids (and Halloween costumes), that the choices for girls clothing has changed for the worse. It's really hard to buy nice clothes for even 5 year old girls. I think tank tops are OK, when I was in Korea we were told we couldn't wear tanks (just the women), even though Korean women did. We actually wore them anyway, kind of a protest.

Ok, in case I am not being clear enough:
The problem with "Teaching men not to rape" and "Teaching men not to beat their spouses" etc etc....
It implies that only men do it. Not true, and is a horrible thing to be teaching.

There are sick and twisted men and women out there. I do not enjoy being looked at as a potential rapist simply because I am a man. In fact, it pisses me off. How about "Teaching humans to respect each other"?

I hope that is clear enough, because I can't think of a simpler way to put it.

Here is the problem with this kind of thinking. Instead of assisting people to be guided by a moral center, we have to teach everything in pieces. So we go to school to learn nothing useful, only to be told by each group defining themselves by victim-hood that:

We need to teach:

No raping
No stealing
No killing
No gang activity
No bullying
No threatening
No back talk
No low pants
No high pants
No eating fat causing sodas
No buying things with cash
no drugs
No terrorist talk
No no no no no no no no no

We have turned into a world where we are "teaching" things that come from a moral center and should not need to be taught. Even worse, they are taught by the same jackasses that brought us the "Just Say No" crap, the "Get Out The Vote" crap and all the slogan driven "change your behavior" drivel. Instead of treating people like humans, we treat them like defective assembly line robots who, when corrected by some pseudo authority, will surely turn into the model citizens, just like the millions of kids who sat through a stupefyingly simpleminded DARE program in grade school and never, never, never took drugs.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH WILL NEVER HAPPEN HAHAHAHAHAHAH

reply to post by Merlynn


I agree 100% that regardless of what women wear they are not asking for it.. "In most cases".. There are the bad apple, some I know to this day personally.

But yes, there is a definite degrading of overall morals and ethics being foisted upon a younger and younger generation. Both are taught to be something that is unnatural and as a result unnatural behavior will (again as Taoist put it) "potentially" occur.

If you feed a person junk food, they will get fat, if you feed a person violence and gore, they will become desensitized to it and perhaps even become more violent.

Girls, need to be taught how to act properly, and boys need to be taught how to act properly to other girls.

Saying this seems ludicrous simply because I ALREADY KNOW!!! lol But as mentioned already, the ideals of proper morality are indeed slipping away in the "sexes" in general.

Growing up I was taught, to treat a women with dignity and respect. Never did it include, behaving like an animal. In fact, I think if you ask around you may find that the majority of males out there and in fact even here on ATS; were given and still hold a valid license to beat the ever loving SH** out of douche bags that try to take advantage of a women.

WE, The majority were taught correctly and no longer need a lesson. The younger generations however, both male and female could probably use a decent amount of coaching in how to be human.

reply to post by Merlynn


You fail to understand how men in general think about the sexual act is very distinct from the female perspective, even in the consideration behind it.

Some men are taught growing up that a passed out female is free game. She shouldn't have been drinking, she must want it, she can't say no. These all justify the guys bad behavior. It is psychology.

I clearly stated that improper socialization is a main cause, society in general objectifies women and their sexuality men so the base result is that type of thinking how could it be not?

Men are emotionally simpler than women as they rarely rationalize emotions, or are prone to consider the long term implication of actions especially in regards to emotional consequences. Women are just the contrary that is why they tend to excel in social interaction and to a certain degree permits them to be instinctual manipulative (a male prefers the use of physical strength and direct confrontation). Men tend to be also more visual oriented so they are more prone to arousal add to that the quasi predatory nature for opportunities for copulation and you would even understand why men came to concepts like the burka or sexual segregation and other ways to hide the women body (not so long ago men would get excited only the glimpse of a women ankle).

Then there is the distinction of sexual realization, in women ends it motherhood in man it ends in the sexual act itself, for a male parenthood is completely different and distinct from the sexual act.

TKDRL
Ok, in case I am not being clear enough:
The problem with "Teaching men not to rape" and "Teaching men not to beat their spouses" etc etc....
It implies that only men do it. Not true, and is a horrible thing to be teaching.

There are sick and twisted men and women out there. I do not enjoy being looked at as a potential rapist simply because I am a man. In fact, it pisses me off. How about "Teaching humans to respect each other"?

I hope that is clear enough, because I can't think of a simpler way to put it.

I understand what you are saying and yes, ideally we should be saying that PEOPLE should not rape/abuse/etc. But the point is that it is predominantly men who rape. Yes there are some women too, but the percentage is miniscule by comparison. By fixing on the small percentage of women who rape, (bear in mind that male on female rape is far more terrifying for the victim), it takes away the importance of the recognition that it is mainly men doing the raping so in general it is men that need to be educated.

Now, knowing right from wrong doesn't seem to matter as rapists know they are doing wrong, so the question is - HOW can we stop these men from raping?
Aside from the meme that is so widespread throughout the world that women are objects and portrayed as such through advertising, and culture in general, more needs to be done in 'teaching not to rape'.

It seems there needs to be a fundamental paradigm shift in behaviour that is respectful and truly loving to not just women but to both sexes and oneself. This needs to be reinforced by society through advertising and culture, (films, music, books, fashion, schools, politics, parents, friends, etc.)
A huge undertaking.
But an undertaking that needs to be done or the situation will not change.

Mods, If possible can you please remove my post on page 2, it was fairly derogatory, sarcastic and unnecessary and contributes nothing to the thread but general insult toward taoistguy.



To taoistguy, I sincerely doubt Ill agree with you on this topic based on what I have read thus far... But I should have just said that instead. My apologies for the knee jerk reaction, it's a emotional topic to me.

reply to post by snowen20


And to me too.
Apology accepted.

reply to post by taoistguy


Can you please stop saying the same thing over and over again as if it refutes the arguments made against it dozens of times? At this point I have to wonder if there's a hidden motive here to just aggravate people.

I'll ask again, how is it relevent what the "majority of cases" are? What does that have to do with anything?

Some men rape. Fact.

Some women rape. Fact.

Therefore, only men should be educated on rape.

This is what you're saying, do you honestly not see how it sounds a little retarded?

If only men were taught some special educational courses about rape, it would further the illusion that females cannot be perpetrators of rape; it's a dangerous social step. There is absolutely no need to create a gender barrier which suggests that men have a problem with rape and completely ignore that women do.

Ontop of that, it would create circumstantial backlashes which would go against your supposed goals. Could you imagine being sent to a class where men only were told about rape violence and such? That would aggravate me if I knew some of the stories about females comitting sexual violence, and the females didn't have to attend this class while I did, especially knowing full well that I had zero intentions of raping people.

LightOrange
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Can you please stop saying the same thing over and over again as if it refutes the arguments made against it dozens of times? At this point I have to wonder if there's a hidden motive here to just aggravate people.

I'll ask again, how is it relevent what the "majority of cases" are? What does that have to do with anything?

Some men rape. Fact.

Some women rape. Fact.

Therefore, only men should be educated on rape.

This is what you're saying, do you honestly not see how it sounds a little retarded?

edit on 27-9-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

I don't seem to be the only one repeating myself.
As to the rest of your post, see my posts a few posts above this one.

reply to post by taoistguy


Okay. Dodge the question entirely.

Real mature.

I'm done here.

Enjoy attempting to grow up a little.

This is not a new idea. Many of us have been talking about this concept for a very long time. If I searched through all of my posts throughout my time on ATS, I could pull many posts from 5+ years ago speaking about just this.

It SHOULD be taught. But it wont be. Too many people are too sold on the victim blame. This thread serves as a fine example.

reply to post by LightOrange


I'm not dodging. I explained it in the post. :

You want me to repeat myself???

reply to post by LightOrange


And stop with the insults. You call me immature?