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rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

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posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:23 PM
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oblvion

captaintyinknots

luciddream
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Have you seen read the thread? seems like you read title and jumped to end page.

Go have another look.
been here from the start. Thanks. No one has said all men rape.


I would disagree most rambunctiously, as the line " all men are capable of rape" and " all men should be taught not to rape" have been thrown around the entire time.

When both are complete idiocy.
Maybe i missed it, but I have not seen anyone say that all men are capable of rape (although, in truth, all people are capable of rape. Capability is not the issue).

Do you think all women should be taught about rape prevention?



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:24 PM
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oblvion

eletheia

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eletheia
 


Being at the wrong place at the wrong time is not bad luck?

Obviously its also criminal. Its a felony!





'Who' decides which is the place and time that I am in is wrong??

Ideally I should be able to go any where at any time!!? I don't have a probation

order on me restricting my movements


The criminal attacker silly, like you don't understand that already?

Are you being obtuse on purpose here?

The attacker decides, your in a long dark alley, and thinks he can get away with the attack.

This is not rocket science.

I guess I should be able to walk my white butt down the middle of east Compton without worrying about getting attacked also, but this is not reality.

In fact, the police who saw my walking down the road would pick me up and likely say something along the lines of "are you trying to get your dumb ass killed?".

They would not say " you can walk anywhere you want any time you want", they would ask me how stupid I was for thinking I would not get killed.

You don't see how certain behaviors put people at more or less risk of being victims here? Your kidding right?
Now I know you are just being argumentative, as I have walked through compton many times and not had a single issue. In fact, parts of compton are becoming quite nice.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by CornShucker
 


I am like a really big kid. I love family get-togethers, I will be the big scary dude, right in the middle of the snowball fight/waterfight with the kids, while most of the grownups are being boring and watching TV


It is who I am, and gets me a lot of sideways funny looks. I am also a photography guy, always snapping pictures everywhere, gets me some more funny looks, and sometimes confrontations. It is sad, man playing with the kids or snapping pictures in public garners a lot of suspicion from people these days. Bad apples seriously diminish regular people's joy in life.


Agreed... I'm not big on country music, but the Oak Ridge Boys got it right. Thank God For Kids.

The only way I've thought of to address the OP is this:

Everyone, boy or girl, should raised to respect others. It's a shame that making love has been reduced, by some, to the level of a bodily function....



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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captaintyinknots

Fair enough, and I dont disagree. Again, though, my issue is with those in this thread who have flat out said "sometimes women do ask for it". That is a direct quote from this thread.

Responsibility falls on all parties. It is still never the fault of the victim, however.


Yes it is PARTLY the fault of the victim if they do things they shouldn't be doing.

Maybe not always from a legal perspective, but at least from a moral perspective.

This is the part me, you and others will APPARENTLY never agree on. So be it!

At least learn to respect other peoples opinions and be less rude about it in the future. Thats all I can ask.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 




Yes it is PARTLY the fault of the victim if they do things they shouldn't be doing.
Thats called victim blame. And you are wrong. They are responsible for being in the situation, but the only person at fault is the attacker. Again, no ifs, ands or buts.




Maybe not always from a legal perspective, but at least from a moral perspective.


Morals? You are saying a victim of rape is at fault and you are talking about morals?




This is the part me, you and others will APPARENTLY never agree on. So be it!
You are correct, I will never agree with someone who defends a rapist.




At least learn to respect other peoples opinions and be less rude about it in the future. Thats all I can ask.
I have no respect for anyone who thinks there is any situation where it is ok to rape. Period. And Ill be as rude as I like while calling such vile people out. If you think Ive crossed any lines, feel free to report me.

Ill say it again, though. YOU are part of the problem. YOU are exactly why this education is needed. And you dont even get it.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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captaintyinknots

You are correct, I will never agree with someone who defends a rapist.


Its not about defending rape.

Its about using common sense and avoiding trouble.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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EarthCitizen07

captaintyinknots

You are correct, I will never agree with someone who defends a rapist.


Its not about defending rape.

Its about using common sense and avoiding trouble.
Bull. If you are giving a reason that the victim is AT FAULT, you are then saying that the perpetrator is, at least in part, not at fault. It cant be both ways. Therefore, you are defending a rapists.

Do you understand this? I feel like you dont.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I remember the last time I got into automobile accident, the cops showed up on the site, they asked for drivers license, registration, insurance, and then proceeded to determine whom was most at fault. He assigned 70-30 blame on him, but my insurance premium still went up and I was still at blame.

I dont see why rape has to be 100% one persons fault either. Sure sometimes it is black and white, sometimes it is not. The judge or jury determine verdicts and pass sentences once they review the case properly.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 




I remember the last time I got into automobile accident, the cops showed up on the site, they asked for drivers license, registration, insurance, and then proceeded to determine whom was most at fault. He assigned 70-30 blame on him, but my insurance premium still went up and I was still at blame.

Completely irrelevant. Auto laws have been changed in many states to accommodate such a thing. Rape laws have not. You really are all over the board.

And, why exactly are you bringing up the legal aspect, when just a couple of posts ago you argued that it wasnt about legality, but instead about morals?




I dont see why rape has to be 100% one persons fault either. Sure sometimes it is black and white, sometimes it is not. The judge or jury determine verdicts and pass sentences once they review the case properly.
You dont? You dont understand how if a person forces themself onto another person, its ALL THEIR FAULT, regardless of the situation that led to it? How is that possible? If one person is trying to leave the situation, and another forces them to stay in it and forced sex, how is it anything BUT the person who forced its fault? How is the person trying to leave the situation at fault in any way?

Do you not see that you are still defending rapists? Do you not see that you are still blaming victims? This is exactly why this education is needed, too many people raised in a rape culture that blames a victim, therefore, they think it is ok to do so as well.


edit on 30-9-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Pretty sure rape laws vary from state to state, and much more so from country to country.

Your "arguments" are repetitive and boring, clinging to catch phrases to sensationalise.
edit on 30/9/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 





all that is nessecary for discussion is the knowledge that " teach men not to rape " is being forawrded as a solution to rape


How do you go about teaching someone something which they should already know?
Rape is not about sex, it is about power.
When one person has to result to force in order to "prove" their power and dominance over others , this is where the problems arise.
It is not about teaching men not to rape; it is about teaching people how to respect one another's humanity from a young age.
It truely is generational and can only be treated as such.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





Pretty sure rape laws vary from state to state, and much more from country to country.
Sure they do. Care to show me one single example of a state that has laws that say a rape victim is partially at fault? Whats that? You cant?

Again, irrelevant.




Your "arguments" are repetitive and boring, clinging to catch phrases to sensationalise.
What catch phrases are those? Things like victim blame? What would you have me call it when you claim a victim is at fault? Theres no other term.

You may be tired of my argument, but you havent countered a thing. All you have done is further dig yourself in with claiming that a rape victim is to blame. You have thrown out irrelevant nonsense, spoken of socialism (wtf?), car accidents, some elusive agenda that you wont elaborate on.... basically anything you can except the topic itself.

Again, you WILL grow up someday. And by that time, I hope you realize how vile your words here are.
edit on 30-9-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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TKDRL
Seems like all of the discourse in the thread is a language issue really. A vast majority of men are strongly against rape, so saying the "generally, men rape" is obviously gonna ruffle some feathers. I don't think it is on purpose though, for most people. They are just not understanding how those words can impact us. If someone said, "generally, men are pedophiles", I wonder how different the response would be?

I was falsely accused of rape, and it cost me a boatload of money to keep my freedom, and clear my good name. It does happen, luckily though, it seems to be in the vast minority, just like rape is. I was unlucky enough to pick one of the psycho women that do such things.


Some would say it's your fault and you asked for it. :\



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by taoistguy
 


Well, I do share in some of that responsibility. Afterall, I was young and inexperienced, and jumped into a relationship way too soon after meeting her. Had I waited on it, I think I would have realized she was straight up bad news and not got involved with her in the first place.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by taoistguy
 


Well, I do share in some of that responsibility. Afterall, I was young and inexperienced, and jumped into a relationship way too soon after meeting her. Had I waited on it, I think I would have realized she was straight up bad news and not got involved with her in the first place.


Sorry to hear about your ordeal. You say you share some of the responsibility, but do you consider yourself to blame and that you "asked for it"? Were you dressed like a "slut" as some people would claim?

You were young and inexperienced in life.

But at least you weren't held down against your will and penetrated and in fear of your life and traumatised for life.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by taoistguy
 


I said I share some responsibility, so that means I do share a little of the blame. I made the mistake of getting involved with a girl I didn't know well enough to consider getting involved with. I made a mistake, and paid for it dearly. Lesson learned. Being caged like an animal for no reason is certainly traumatising.
edit on Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:38:57 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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I was bullied at school. I accept some responsibility for being there but I cannot say it was my fault.
Anyhow, I can't compare being bullied or being accused of bullying as the same as being raped.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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captaintyinknots

EarthCitizen07

captaintyinknots

You are correct, I will never agree with someone who defends a rapist.


Its not about defending rape.

Its about using common sense and avoiding trouble.
Bull. If you are giving a reason that the victim is AT FAULT, you are then saying that the perpetrator is, at least in part, not at fault. It cant be both ways. Therefore, you are defending a rapists.

Do you understand this? I feel like you dont.



I feel like you unerstand it the least.

If a store owner closes the store for the night, leaves the money in the till, leaves the door unlocked, and puts the till on the sidewalk, is he/she not at least the tiniest bit at blame for when he/she inevitably gets robbed? Would anyone who calls him/her stupid be a "victim blamer"?

And does it make the theif less of a theif? No, it doesn't. The theif is still 100% theif and the victim is still a moron.

Obviously this isn't the case with a large number of rapes, I'm just trying to outline that what you're presenting as "sound logic" really doesn't make a lick of sense.
edit on 30-9-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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LightOrange

captaintyinknots

EarthCitizen07

captaintyinknots

You are correct, I will never agree with someone who defends a rapist.


Its not about defending rape.

Its about using common sense and avoiding trouble.
Bull. If you are giving a reason that the victim is AT FAULT, you are then saying that the perpetrator is, at least in part, not at fault. It cant be both ways. Therefore, you are defending a rapists.

Do you understand this? I feel like you dont.



I feel like you unerstand it the least.

If a store owner closes the store for the night, leaves the money in the till, leaves the door unlocked, and puts the till on the sidewalk, is he/she not at least the tiniest bit at blame for when he/she inevitably gets robbed? Would anyone who calls him/her stupid be a "victim blamer"?

And does it make the theif less of a theif? No, it doesn't. The theif is still 100% theif and the victim is still a moron.

Obviously this isn't the case with a large number of rapes, I'm just trying to outline that what you're presenting as "sound logic" really doesn't make a lick of sense.
edit on 30-9-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)


If I left 2 apples on my doorstep, I am asking for trouble and shouldn't be surprised when I find they are missing in the morning.

Stupid analogy isn't it?

You can't compare rape with anything else.
Such people need educating properly.



posted on Sep, 30 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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captaintyinknots
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





Pretty sure rape laws vary from state to state, and much more from country to country.
Sure they do. Care to show me one single example of a state that has laws that say a rape victim is partially at fault? Whats that? You cant?

Again, irrelevant.


Since when does *responsibility* not translate into *blame*? Don't you see you are arguing semantics, or maybe I am just super stupid and dont get it. If someone accepts partial responsibility for something I think its taken for granted they also accept partial blame for something. responsibility=blame.

And what do the laws being different from state to state, and from nation to nation mean to you? In what ways are they different, if not in how they assess situations to come up with a verdict?

Your black and white nonsense is irritating the heck out of people, including myself. I would really appreciate if you stop with all this defending rape nonsense, because its not true. Its childish behavior and deflection.




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