Is the IRS about to become the most powerful agency in Government?

This question was floating in my mind this morning. The more I've come to think about it, the more outright disturbing it's become. This is not partisan by the way, so not the direction it's about by any stretch. There is nothing about the IRS that will suddenly improve when a Republican next takes Office, so it's irrelevant.

This took both sides working or at least not working, to accomplish.

That being said... What have we done here?

We've all seen the stories by now of the IRS getting their own weapons and tactical purchases. We've noted, hopefully with growing alarm, the way the IRS has come to allow itself to be used. How long has that been happening? Dems got caught ...but it would be stupid to see what happened and think they JUST came up with that as some new concept. They just hadn't been caught or been sloppy before, is all I believe it's been. This being said to note, they aren't strictly bean counters and playing by the narrow view of accountants any longer.


Why should that concern anyone? Well, the IRS is somewhat unique in the Federal Government for their enforcement ability, power and approach. Most, if not all other agencies have pesky things like Due Process to adhere strictly to from start to finish. Not so, the IRS. Due process is what they define that as, until or unless you 'take on city hall' with the titanic fight they can easily make it ...with little trouble to their end of things.

- - - - - - - -

* The IRS can seize property, both private and commercial. They can do this by more than one route and without even the basic process involved for everyone to understand (at least) the purposes claimed, ahead of time.

* The IRS can seize your money. As a thread running right now notes, this can even be done by secret order in advance so as to come as a 100% and total "Surprise! You're Broke!" moment....and again, without due process to have first established wrong doing. Just the suspicion is sufficient for property and money to be taken in penalty.

* The IRS can, if they so choose, lien and then take your home in the process of going after what it sees or declares as due taxes or other costs. Depends on amount and it doesn't always happen, but they have that power. Due process came or went in the first phase and before the house hit the chopping block of sacrifice ...and as noted above, came by how they defined it as likely as not.

- - - - - - - -

Now, in a few days, the first major implementation of the Affordable Care Act will commence. By individual mandate, it's clearly stated that some households will see net overall spending burdens increase by thousands of dollars a year. Many thousands, in many cases. The IRS is in charge of administering that aspect and the collections duties of the ACA. This, the agency I've listed by points above, as having power almost unrivaled across Government for manipulation and seizure of property/money.

I don't know about many others, but even during my days of trucking and the height of my income in that profession, I could not have taken thousands of dollars in new burdens without an increase in pay. It's not a question of willingness or rebelling against the system. It's pure math and the fact my printer can't run off sheets of money without running me into prison. So...I can't just invent new paper to bridge the gap.

What I'm saying is...I probably couldn't pay and pay my bills, and pay food, gas and every other misc thing life takes to get one day into the next.

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So....where does that leave us homeowners? Where does that leave renters as well, who depend on not seeing the owner get the property seized?

Waiting for the IRS to add enough unpaid fines to add our homes to the Federal Reserve's Mortgage buyouts? Waiting for the IRS to zero our bank accounts with some draconian garnish running against what comes after, and expecting the next due date for the ACA related costs to go better?

I think by accident or by design? The IRS is about to become the top of the block...almost...for absolute REAL vs. paper power in Government today. We might want to start paying real attention to who gets appointed into positions at Treasury and who is running the divisions of the IRS itself.

Anyone else see the issue here?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

About to?

The only way I could imagine it being more powerful is if it had nuclear weapons and the authorization to use them.

You are so right, unfortunately. I had that thought and my heart jumped when I first heard that the IRS would be carrying this out once the ACA went live. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing news reports and videos of people being robbed of their money and property due to this new law. I think--no, I KNOW it's all by design. It fits in with so many other things happening all over. Anyone who's ever dealt with the IRS for monies owed knows it's a losing battle.

reply to post by greencmp


Don't give them ideas...lol They may decide the US Air Force hasn't followed something, somewhere and choose some Missile silos across the Great Plains to seize in payment. (Only kinda half joking these days)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Short answer: Yes.

Short reason: Because they can (under current law)

Now, what comes afterwards will prove interesting...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


What better agency then the IRS, they are attuned to and extremely experienced at destroying peoples lives. In a lot of case's by there mistakes and overzealousness (is that even a word) in acting first and not caring one iota about what they leave behind.

Like someone said, the only thing they are lacking is control of WMD's.

yeahright

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

About to? I've seen this as an issue for 40 years. Once the government implemented payroll taxes, we were doomed. You have nothing beyond what the government 'allows' you to keep. It's ALL theirs to do with as they please, and if you don't think that's the mindset, then you haven't been paying attention.

We're the proverbial frogs in the pot and it's really starting to boil now.

Is it fixable? Sure. But I honestly don't think we collectively have the will, the stomach, or the initiative to fix it.

Everyone wants change. And that's what they do. Sit there, wanting that change.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

I think we can and will do what is necessary. Not in any organized fashion but, locally for our own best interests, our actions will cumulatively result in the paring back of excessive government. My question used to be, "but where do we stop?", now I don't think that is much of a concern compared to the implications of not starting.

Hah I hope so my mom has been working there for nearly 30 years maybe she'll be able to do all that stuff you mentioned!

If you don't want those things to happen to you it would be wise to pay your taxes then?

For those who aren't aware of this IRS whistle-blower, Joe Banister is a former special agent of the IRS, who resigned and now successfully challenges the constitutional unlawfulness of the IRS and their criminal tax code(s).

Just like with the deceitful Federal Reserve, the fraudulent IRS needs to be held accountable for its crimes.

"In reversal, IRS gives amnesty to owners of secret Israeli bank accounts."

reply to post by corvuscorrax


So now people who couldn't afford health insurance will be forced to do so, and if they don't, they will have to pay a fine (tax, fee, whatever). And if they can't pay that, interest and penalties will just pile exponentially on top of it until the IRS seizes everything you have. And it will happen-- not due to willful non-compliance but because people are BROKE in this country.

And you're okay with all that just because your mom works for the IRS?

I thought I'd add this for perspective, for folks who may downplay or honestly not realize how the IRS has changed over the past decade and recent years.

First...They are enormous for personnel of all kinds.

How many IRS employees are there?

According to the report, the IRS began the fiscal year with a total of 92,577 employees. It ended the year with 94,349 employees. Of these:

- 14,588 were Revenue Agents

- 5,922 were Revenue Officers

- 2,751 were Special Agents

- 1,610 were Attorneys

09/10 IRS Internal Stats

We could contrast that with, say, the nations primary federal law enforcement at the FBI. Their numbers (part way down the FAQ page) only indicate a bit over 35,000 employees....and they have people overseas now too, while counting everyone down to lab techs at Quantico to make that number.

Then we have the IRS putting their hiring into a higher gear....and no mere media rumor on this.

New Employees Are Being Hired More Quickly at the IRS, TIGTA Finds

I think the pudding for desert comes in what an IRS Special Agent does....by description and then in context to my OP here. It's something to stop and consider, at the very least.

Law Enforcement Team

CI Special Agents are a Part of a "Bigger" Law Enforcement Team
Being a part of the IRS Criminal Investigation (CI) team means being a part of an enormous network of local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. IRS works closely with the Department of Justice, US Attorneys, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the US Postal Inspection Service, Inspector Generals of all Federal Agencies, the US Marshals Service and the list goes on. Many federal agencies rely on CI to unravel criminal activities by following the financial trail - which ultimately leads to violation of the tax laws and numerous other related financial crimes or other federal offenses. It is not unusual for a financial investigation to uncover motives for other serious crimes such as corruption, embezzlement, extortion or even murder.

Special Assignments:
Special Agents have numerous diverse work opportunities. They may participate in long- and short-term special assignments on multi-agency task forces - such as the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force or the US Attorney's Telemarketing Fraud Task Force - presidential campaign protective assignments, or become a member of the undercover cadre or become a Computer Investigative Specialist.

IRS Website, Hiring details for Special Agent

They definitely aren't all just bean counters anymore. Nowhere near that, these days.

CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by corvuscorrax

 

So now people who couldn't afford health insurance will be forced to do so, and if they don't, they will have to pay a fine (tax, fee, whatever). And if they can't pay that, interest and penalties will just pile exponentially on top of it until the IRS seizes everything you have. And it will happen-- not due to willful non-compliance but because people are BROKE in this country.

And you're okay with all that just because your mom works for the IRS?

edit on 27-9-2013 by CoherentlyConfused because: (no reason given)

No, I'm okay with that because this country has allowed the tendrils of big government to permeate it without so much as a complaint. When these things begin to happen, know that it has been a long time coming and still no one did anything about it.

I look at it as poetic justice.

corvuscorrax
Hah I hope so my mom has been working there for nearly 30 years maybe she'll be able to do all that stuff you mentioned!

If you don't want those things to happen to you it would be wise to pay your taxes then?

Perhaps you should requisition a nice brown shirt and enlist in the citizen subjugation brigade yourself instead of cheering your mother on from the sidelines.

Wow you guys really like to make up your own contexts about what I said.

Apparently I make a comment about my mom working at the IRS and suddenly I'm an IRS cheerleader.

You really need to dial back your emotional response.

corvuscorrax
Wow you guys really like to make up your own contexts about what I said.

Apparently I make a comment about my mom working at the IRS and suddenly I'm an IRS cheerleader.

You really need to dial back your emotional response.

edit on 27-9-2013 by corvuscorrax because: (no reason given)

What about the statement below do you think isn't provocative given the context of this conversation?

Hah I hope so my mom has been working there for nearly 30 years maybe she'll be able to do all that stuff you mentioned!

If you don't want those things to happen to you it would be wise to pay your taxes then?

Maybe you should refrain from poking the hungry tiger, especially if you are made out of meat.

A light joke and implying that you should pay your taxes is provocative?

I should be a stand-up comic then.

corvuscorrax
A light joke and implying that you should pay your taxes is provocative?

I should be a stand-up comic then.

growling...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I posted this in another thread this morning. re-posting here, to save time, and I still feel exactly the same.


This, is why I think the IRS was set up as the backbone for implementing Obamacare. What other agency already has the power, and infrastructure, to seize homes and personal property for supposed nonpayment of taxes.

Obamacare is nothing more than another tax imposed upon the public, without their consent. I see in the not too distant future, those who choose to disobey the new healthcare law of required buying into Obamacare, having their assets seized as government property. No different than personal assets seized for delinquent taxes. From now on, the title to your home, car, property...the IRS/Government, has legal dibs on it, before you do.

If you choose to not obey the new law/tax...the IRS can simply file a lien on your property. You won't be able to sell it, nor use it as collateral for procuring a loan. It isn't your property anymore.

The legal aspects of Obamacare are chilling to the bone. It gives the government a stranglehold over everything a person works to own. If you think it won't go that far...think again.

This is why the *favored* have been granted amnesty from Obamacare. They know what's really coming down the pike...and it ain't gonna be pretty.

Des

reply to post by corvuscorrax


I think taxes have been getting harsh but still tolerable and not a back breaker. Not taxes as they've been. The ACA now puts the IRS squarely in charge of levying what amounts to the largest tax hike I can imagine with thousands a year added to every household in the nation. Backs will be breaking on this, as hours at work and even getting or keeping a job is more and more a challenge. I'm not entirely clear if being unemployed is even a proper exemption or if we're supposed to poop little pellets of money to pay with.

Now, I'm a peaceful guy... I've written threads against the idea of violence on any level in this as being not only pointless but self defeating. To extremes. Having said that to clarify my own thinking, it's fair to say not every Bubba and back woods hillbilly will think of things the same way, when fully realizing that paying a tax to literally live here now is a reality.

Buckets of tar and great quantities of feathers were the things in common demand at one time in our nation. I hope those days don't return. As comical as it may sound....I understand it was a horrible thing and most didn't survive...but took quite some time for that to happen.