ATF cut out of investigation into Navy Yard Shooting by FBI to find shooters guns

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posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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In another odd turn of events, the ATF, the only Federal agency that is to be tasked with weapons tracing, was NOT utilized in the hours following the shooting at the Naval Yard.



Within hours of the Navy Yard shootings, the FBI had traced the gunman's recent shotgun purchase and sent agents to the shop in northern Virginia where he bought it. Left out of the loop was the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a surprising snub between top U.S. law enforcement agencies that comes as the ATF struggles to show its relevance in Washington.

The ATF is the federal agency in charge of tracing guns used in crimes, including the military-style semi-automatic rifle used in rampage at a Connecticut school last year, a similar rifle used in the deadly shooting at a Colorado movie theater and a handgun used to kill six people and critically wound a congresswoman, among others, outside a grocery store in Tucson, Ariz.

By the afternoon of the Navy Yard shootings, FBI agents — not ATF agents — were in northern Virginia at the gun shop where Aaron Alexis, 34, bought a Remington 870 Express shotgun and about two dozen shells barely 48 hours earlier. By day's end it was clear that the shotgun, which Alexis altered with a sawed-down barrel and shoulder stock, was purchased legally after Alexis showed his valid Texas driver's license and passed both a state and federal background check.

But the ATF wasn't involved.


A former ATF Director of Field Operations had this to say


"I have never seen an instance where ATF had not been relied upon to trace the gun," said Mike Bouchard, a former ATF assistant director for field operations. "I have never heard of a situation like that."

By 6 p.m. Monday, the day of the shooting, The Associated Press had learned that the shotgun had been legally purchased at a gun shop in Lorton, Va. When asked about those details, the ATF said its trace had not been completed. ATF spokeswoman Ginger Colbrun said in a statement Friday that once ATF traced the shotgun, that information was handed off to the FBI, which is leading the investigation. She declined to say when the ATF completed its trace.

"ATF is the sole federal agency that is authorized to conduct firearms tracing," Colbrun said in the statement. The ATF's National Tracing Center "is authorized to trace a firearm for a law enforcement agency involved in a bona fide criminal investigation."

The FBI's Washington Field Office declined to comment on the investigation.


Why would this be done? I think it shows that there is a national gun registry that the public does not know about and is not authorized according to the 1968 overhaul of gun laws.

It goes on to mention that the ATF has not had a leader since 2006 and when the Navy Yard shooting occurred the new chief had been in place less than 3 weeks.

This is the line that has me concerned...


Bouchard said another law enforcement agency asking for gun sales records could be confusing for licensed dealers who have become accustomed to dealing with the ATF.


It is only a matter of time now. They have precedent. They can say they found it with existing resources and should be law to allow for a national gun registry...or did they show their hand when they did not want to.

Link

Link to video of shooter inside building

Link

He does NOT look crazy to me....
edit on 09pm30pmf0000002013-09-25T13:50:26-05:000126 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


OP I think you hit enter too soon.

but on topic, which i am sure you will post pretty soon

in the mean time i have a question.

as this was on a military base do the FBI have jurisdiction?



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 

No doubt about it, they were busy selling cigarettes!




posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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Yeah, I hit it by accident. The FBI would have the investigation I believe but cutting out the ATF showed me at least there must be other means that are not 'legal' that the government is using to track gun ownership. Gun dealers are to keep legal records that are for the ATF to review and provide as needed.

The Firearms Protection Act of 1986 forbids a national registry.



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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Given their track record the FBI probably doesnt want the ATF to cover up that they handed the shotgun to the shooter as part of some half-assed sting.



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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if the atf cant even track the weapons they trade for or give to mexican cartels how could they track weapons they werent directly involved with..im being a bit of a smart ass but not really



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 02:38 PM
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greencmp
reply to post by matafuchs
 

No doubt about it, they were busy selling cigarettes!



mkultra cigarettes! All those millions of cigs being laced with mkulta!
haha



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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First these things always lead to jurisdictional fighting. I was in working group once that spent 3 days with nothing but fighting between State, FBI and DoD fighting over jurisdiction before we could even begin to address the potentional issue we were facing. Second the ATF has been gutted by the gun lobby to point where it is mostly just the AT.



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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matafuchs
In another odd turn of events, the ATF, the only Federal agency that is to be tasked with weapons tracing, was NOT utilized in the hours following the shooting at the Naval Yard.



Within hours of the Navy Yard shootings, the FBI had traced the gunman's recent shotgun purchase and sent agents to the shop in northern Virginia where he bought it. Left out of the loop was the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a surprising snub between top U.S. law enforcement agencies that comes as the ATF struggles to show its relevance in Washington.

The ATF is the federal agency in charge of tracing guns used in crimes, including the military-style semi-automatic rifle used in rampage at a Connecticut school last year, a similar rifle used in the deadly shooting at a Colorado movie theater and a handgun used to kill six people and critically wound a congresswoman, among others, outside a grocery store in Tucson, Ariz.

By the afternoon of the Navy Yard shootings, FBI agents — not ATF agents — were in northern Virginia at the gun shop where Aaron Alexis, 34, bought a Remington 870 Express shotgun and about two dozen shells barely 48 hours earlier. By day's end it was clear that the shotgun, which Alexis altered with a sawed-down barrel and shoulder stock, was purchased legally after Alexis showed his valid Texas driver's license and passed both a state and federal background check.

But the ATF wasn't involved.


A former ATF Director of Field Operations had this to say


"I have never seen an instance where ATF had not been relied upon to trace the gun," said Mike Bouchard, a former ATF assistant director for field operations. "I have never heard of a situation like that."

By 6 p.m. Monday, the day of the shooting, The Associated Press had learned that the shotgun had been legally purchased at a gun shop in Lorton, Va. When asked about those details, the ATF said its trace had not been completed. ATF spokeswoman Ginger Colbrun said in a statement Friday that once ATF traced the shotgun, that information was handed off to the FBI, which is leading the investigation. She declined to say when the ATF completed its trace.

"ATF is the sole federal agency that is authorized to conduct firearms tracing," Colbrun said in the statement. The ATF's National Tracing Center "is authorized to trace a firearm for a law enforcement agency involved in a bona fide criminal investigation."

The FBI's Washington Field Office declined to comment on the investigation.


Why would this be done? I think it shows that there is a national gun registry that the public does not know about and is not authorized according to the 1968 overhaul of gun laws.

It goes on to mention that the ATF has not had a leader since 2006 and when the Navy Yard shooting occurred the new chief had been in place less than 3 weeks.

This is the line that has me concerned...


Bouchard said another law enforcement agency asking for gun sales records could be confusing for licensed dealers who have become accustomed to dealing with the ATF.


It is only a matter of time now. They have precedent. They can say they found it with existing resources and should be law to allow for a national gun registry...or did they show their hand when they did not want to.

Link

Link to video of shooter inside building

Link

He does NOT look crazy to me....
edit on 09pm30pmf0000002013-09-25T13:50:26-05:000126 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)


In a high profile case, the FBI is not going to want any "help" from the idiots at "F-troop."



posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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You are all proving the point I am trying to make. The only 'legal' way to track guns is with the ATF. With F&F and all of the other debacles they are setting the stage to 'get rid of them'. When they do that, after the gov't proves they are worthless or not needed, there will be a new push for gun registration as the argument will be made that there 'is none' and nothing with the ATF anymore even if antiquated. Then TPTB can 'introduce' something they claim as new to be something that will help.

With provisions in the PPACA they will then be able to verify this information that has been compiled. This shows that the ATF was never needed to govern but only as point of collection for the end game which is controlling all the private owners of guns. or maybe I am really going out on a limb but...



posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 01:02 AM
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matafuchs....the gun shop where Aaron Alexis, 34, bought a Remington 870 Express shotgun and about two dozen shells barely 48 hours earlier.


This weapon looks a lot older than a brand new two-day old gun!






posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by starviego
 


This is interesting because if it was not brand new then there is a trail. If he was hearing voices to go and buy this weapon, the ATF would have record of where it was originally purchased, etc. Did the FBI move to secure the records as well as hunt down the weapon to compartmentalize?





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