Honesty in Perfection

Spiritual honesty is when the 'outer man' portrays 'inner man,' and between them there is no betrayal.

A man with true honesty is as clear as bright day. You can read the deeds of his spirit on his face.

But what makes the 'inner man,' good, or honest?

I tell you this man strives for perfection by seeking to make the 'inner self' portray God.

Purify the 'inner man' by the fire that is God.

'Move to the moment of your death, and find your true desire.'

You will find that that desire is God himself.

reply to post by backcase


May I ask you a sincere question.

At what Age did you become religious, and believe the things you say?

Thanks

reply to post by Briles1207


it was at age 18 or 19 I became spiritually invested but such is entirely irrelevant.

reply to post by backcase


It is relevant to me as I am researching at what age people catch religion and their life leading up to it. Their demographic If you will.

Apologies if I seemed intrusive

reply to post by Briles1207


No offense taken, if you wish to speak more about it message me.

reply to post by backcase

But what makes the 'inner man,' good, or honest?

I tell you this man strives for perfection by seeking to make the 'inner self' portray God.

I doubt it. I would never be friends with God if I actually met him. I don't like self-entitled egomaniacs.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I don't think that God's true Name can be known, by man at least. I say the word so you know what I mean, although it is up to you to think what you want, as the word has been charged by your own mind.

Is it not possible that you have painted a picture of the deity you read and hear spoken of. Is it not also possible that to allow this painting to keep you from knowing who God is?

reply to post by backcase

I don't think that God's true Name can be known, by man at least. I say the word so you know what I mean, although it is up to you to think what you want, as the word has been charged by your own mind.

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Is it not possible that you have painted a picture of the deity you read and hear spoken of. Is it not also possible that to allow this painting to keep you from knowing who God is?

If that is the case, the picture was painted by most of the Christians both in this forum and in my life. Is it not possible that you worship something you don't understand?

Love is fear. Faith is knowledge. Oppression is security. These are the edicts of your god, whether or not they have been explicitly expressed. Like a footprint in the mud, these edicts are made clear by their context.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


you forgot that weakness is strength.

A little seed becomes a big tree.

I am nothing, I am unworthy, yet I am loved, I am appreciated, and I am spoken to by God.

Only God can makes such an insignificant creature such as myself feel great. But I supposed it means nothing to you besides helping your case.

Oh well, humble tears are my joy and you will never take them from me.

reply to post by backcase

you forgot that weakness is strength.

Exactly. Orwellian philosophy. You would do wonderfully in that little universe. Always being told exactly what to think or feel or do.

I am nothing, I am unworthy, yet I am loved, I am appreciated, and I am spoken to by God.

You should see a psychiatrist with that kind of attitude. You are not nothing. You are not unworthy. And the fact that there is a philosophy raging worldwide that encourages this kind of thinking makes me absolutely disgusted. It's inhumane.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You have not yet fully felt humility then.

I say these things because I have experienced the love of God, and I could not help but feel humility.

I was crying and crying, I was speaking while sobbing, all the while proclaiming my joy which is entirely undeserved.

I imagine that this undeserving and unworthy feeling comes from being so unlike and far from God, yet at the same time we are close to have had experienced such humility.

AfterInfinity
You should see a psychiatrist with that kind of attitude. You are not nothing. You are not unworthy.

How it that you missed this bit:

yet I am loved, I am appreciated,

Did you actually not see it at all, and are amazed now to see that you missed it? Or did you just miss it because it did not go with your psychiatrist gag?

Oops, I didn't look to see who I was replying to. Disregard this post.

reply to post by backcase

You have not yet fully felt humility then.

I say these things because I have experienced the love of God, and I could not help but feel humility.

And where is his humility, eh? I want to see your god's humility. I want to see him debase himself before the marvelous miracle of his creations, just like Christians keep doing for him. I want to see him bow before his children in awe and admiration of what they have become in his absence. I want to see his appreciation.

That's what irritates me. You don't have the self-respect to stand up and demand appreciation.

I was crying and crying, I was speaking while sobbing, all the while proclaiming my joy which is entirely undeserved.

Oh, I see. You don't even appreciate yourself. That's why you don't stand up.

I imagine that this undeserving and unworthy feeling comes from being so unlike and far from God, yet at the same time we are close to have had experienced such humility.

Why does being different from God automatically mean being undeserving and unworthy? That's utter bullcrap. A mountainous pile of poop. That's what that is. I could describe it further, but there might be kids reading this forum. I suppose that means I'm undeserving and unworthy too, huh? Gee, thanks. I'm glad I don't live for the approval of others. This might be why.

reply to post by backcase

While I may not be particularly religious, I agree with your outlook sans any specific religiosity. I would call myself a Taoist I suppose which is neither here nor there.

I feel a desire, perhaps even a need to be honest and trustworthy. It just makes everything better.

I can also sympathize with how you must feel having been inundated with hatred for expressing this most positive and laudable philosophy. I just put up a thread where I appealed to the better side of our nature as humans and coexisting participants in society only to receive a similarly disturbing response.

Honesty and Trust are the Fabric of Our Communities

I have lots of complaints, I am not a 'rose colored glasses' type by any stretch but, I do not understand how people can live with themselves with so much hate that it leaks into casual conversation.

Don't let them discourage you and keep the faith if that is how it works for you!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

I will tell you what man is that God is mindful of, a creation in His image.

If you choose to believe you are the result of random coincidence, then that's your right. But then what are you left with but a universe devoid of love, with nothing but plasma, empty space, rocks and gas floating mindlessly along without a thought toward you.

The grave doesn't care about you, whether or not you evolved, whether or not you have intrinsic or extrinsic morality. The universe you want does not care one iota about you. It can't think, it can't speak, it won't even last forever, even stars crash to the earth sooner or later.

What a faith you have, believing in nothingness. And you question our God.

If you have a universe of nothingness, devoid of emotion, love and compassion, then you should not speak against someone else who recognizes something greater and that greater causes them to feel loved.

You are a tiny speck in the universe, you are so limited by time and space and if all there is in the universe is the eventual end of all things, then don't insert love into the equation, because a universe of unfeeling has no room for love.

The universe dictated by physics has no room to even consider your thoughts about it. Volcanoes explode, lava kills people without regard to their lives. There's no room in the universe for caring about people. Floods come and destroy homes, without emotion. Tornadoes destroy schools without regard to what is being taught in them.

This universe doesn't care whether or not you believe in it or not. So your anger and vitriol is unwarranted because you are just the random coincidence of the universe. in this cold, emotionless set of random coincidences, what gives you the right to even question, think, speak or give any opinion whatsoever? If you believe that I am also a random coincidence, then you wouldn't mind me saying that I don't care about you. I don't have to like you or love you or even hate you. I don't have to feel anything about you at all.

But you expressed anger over a God that exists beyond this universe that is mindful of man, whom He created. Why are you angry with God? Anger is an emotion. If you have the capacity for emotion, then it didn't come through random coincidence from an unfeeling universe.

You are the tiny speck in this universe, but demand to be heard. Talk about arrogance to speak in the voice of anger when there isn't even anything in the universe who would hear you anyway. Right?

reply to post by greencmp


Thanks for the reply.

I wrote in one of my earlier threads titled The True Religion is that of Virtue 'If you are religious and people know it, the most common question they ask is "how do you know that your religion is right when there are so many religions?"

I hear this question frequently and I reply that "the religion of virtue practiced heroically predisposes the soul to the true Religion and to the knowledge of God".

Jesus taught virtue, that is what is necessary when it comes to religion and that is the golden thread that can be found in all religions, but the golden thread is like a trail which leads to the heart.

So religion is helpful, but it doesn't matter what religion you are in as long as virtue is your aim. At least I think that will see that good will in your heart and hold it as something valuable.

Peace to you, man.

I looked up virtue as it is one of those terms banded around:
- Behavior showing high moral standards: "paragons of virtue".
- A quality considered morally good or desirable in a person.

Fair enough, I can run with this and my morals (I am agnostic) are a mixture of my upbringing and actually genetics. I am part of the human race who are basically pack animals like wolves. So my moral compass / my driver is to be part of a pack to kill and eat - this makes me feel good, I need the pack.

This why kindness begets kindness, this is why in meetings if one person turns against the speaker then many others will see the weakness and also turn against the speaker - we are ganging up.

Consider if we were like cats - solitary creatures. Then our moral compass would be completely different. indeed everything will be different, we will ignore our fellow animals. We would literally have the morals of an "alley cat".

And God has not been mentioned once. This is about where we have come from and a hangover on what we need to survive.

reply to post by WarminIndy

If you choose to believe you are the result of random coincidence, then that's your right. But then what are you left with but a universe devoid of love, with nothing but plasma, empty space, rocks and gas floating mindlessly along without a thought toward you.

I'm not so intellectually limited that I require theism to give this world meaning. Ascribing meaning myself is just as potent, if not more so, than taking it from a dusty old book. Please note that I am not calling theists intellectually limited, I'm calling this particular rubbish excuse for being a theist intellectually limited.

The grave doesn't care about you, whether or not you evolved, whether or not you have intrinsic or extrinsic morality. The universe you want does not care one iota about you. It can't think, it can't speak, it won't even last forever, even stars crash to the earth sooner or later.

But the people around me do. Are you so greedy and ungrateful that having your family and friends love and appreciate you just isn't enough? You need a whole universe to care about you too?

What a faith you have, believing in nothingness. And you question our God.

I don't need to invent significance in order to feel significant. So yes, I do question your god. Because I question you. I question your motives, I question the devices you don't dare examine for yourself. That's why it's called faith, because your aversion to those answers leaves a void nothing else can fill except for faith. Faith is the Splenda of philosophy. You wanted to talk about honesty? Let's have at it.

If you have a universe of nothingness, devoid of emotion, love and compassion, then you should not speak against someone else who recognizes something greater and that greater causes them to feel loved.

As I can clearly demonstrate, I need no god to laugh and love and cry and fear and doubt. My rejection of theism has not impaired my ability to appreciate the beauty in the world and those who share it with me.

You are a tiny speck in the universe, you are so limited by time and space and if all there is in the universe is the eventual end of all things, then don't insert love into the equation, because a universe of unfeeling has no room for love.

It is a small minded person who is cowed by such things. Being little is not the same thing as meaning little.

The universe dictated by physics has no room to even consider your thoughts about it. Volcanoes explode, lava kills people without regard to their lives. There's no room in the universe for caring about people. Floods come and destroy homes, without emotion. Tornadoes destroy schools without regard to what is being taught in them.

Again, all you are demonstrating is that you desire to feel special and significant. You want more than you would have otherwise.

But you expressed anger over a God that exists beyond this universe that is mindful of man, whom He created. Why are you angry with God? Anger is an emotion. If you have the capacity for emotion, then it didn't come through random coincidence from an unfeeling universe.

I'm not angry. I'm frustrated and disappointed in all these people who simply cannot be satisfied with being exactly who and what they are. They always want more, always want to feel special and significant and prized. I guess it gives them a sense of stability, but only because they don't bother to confront their fears of being insignificant and forgettable. They would rather deny those fears because it's proof that they have ulterior motives to their faith.

You are the tiny speck in this universe, but demand to be heard. Talk about arrogance to speak in the voice of anger when there isn't even anything in the universe who would hear you anyway. Right?

You're trying to make me out like a bad guy or an ignorant fool. It's not going to work because I just pinpointed several chinks in your armor. Not that I want to hurt you. I just want to wake you. I want to jolt you and make you look around and see what you're too afraid to see on your own. It's okay. You're not alone. After all of the things you described about how the universe is supposed to be so cold and barren and frightening, you forgot that one detail: we are not alone. We have each other. And as long as we care for each other, we have everything we need. I don't need a god. I just need friends. God is not my friend. I don't have imaginary friends. I have real friends. That's all I really want or need.

reply to post by templar knight


I would not call humans animals, although we have some of the faculties that animals have.

I would say that man has parts and the animal is one of them. I would also say that to act according to the animal~man you cause harm to the spiritual~man and vice versa. The difference in both choices is that for progression of man to occur he must work with his spirit to grow greater and persevere not withstanding his animal nature which howls like a wolf in heat.

The spirit is contrary to the flesh, do not get them mixed up, because sensuality poisons spirituality.