ANOTHER child killed by pit bulls.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


He DID go full war mode. He didn't bark. He didn't assume a protective stance between you and the "threat". Read your own post! The dog saw him at went directly for its throat! That wasn't protection. That was KILL.

Oh and the other point was raised is still valid: If you weren't there what was the outcome? Would your pit have stopped with the man's dog?

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


Good point. When training your puppy please please please sit there when it's eating and constantly put your hand in their food bowl it helps to let them know that the humans are the alpha. I still do it for my Stonehedge Victorian Bulldog and he is now 7 y.o and when I do it he just sits and calmly waits for me to put it back.

Foundryman
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

He DID go full war mode. He didn't bark. He didn't assume a protective stance between you and the "threat". Read your own post! The dog saw him at went directly for its throat! That wasn't protection. That was KILL.

Oh and the other point was raised is still valid: If you weren't there what was the outcome? Would your pit have stopped with the man's dog?

edit on 25/9/13 by Foundryman because: (no reason given)

Actually the neighbor and his dog would have walked through my yard without issue.....My dog stays inside while I am not home and is outside with me when I get home....This is only the third time I have posted this, so whatever defense you are trying to develop by asking me this question over and over will not work! My dog is very well behaved, I praised him for what he did that day....I want him going after any "foreign" person or animal on my property....BUT when I say to stop and come back, he does exactly that....And he did

Chrisfishenstein

buster2010

rangerdanger
Being from the southwest, I can tell you, I have yet to meet a pitbull that isn't good with children. I've never met a pit that wasn't the nicest animal around. If you aren't from this area, or don't have experience with pits then you'll never understand these animals.

A pitbull is a breed that was bred for fighting and that is it. It was never meant to be a family pet. But the dogs can't be blamed the people that own them are the blame for attacks.

edit on 25-9-2013 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

I 100% disagree with this statement....The owner should be held accountable! Train the effing dog and this doesn't happen....ACTUALLY TRAIN them, not yell at them and forget it....It takes time and patience, but that is a responsibility taken on by an owner of any pet!!

Reread my post and try to understand it this time. I said the dogs aren't the blame but rather the owner.

reply to post by buster2010


I disagree with the other part of your post....You don't only have one thought in there!

Pitbulls are not a "fighter" breed.....They were found to be vicious when put to the test and people TRAIN them to fight....Not the other way around

They weren't born to fight and trained not to.....

usmc0311
reply to post by kimish

 

I read your first post and I would like to ask you a question. You said it was a male dog, was it neutered? Any male dog regardless of breed will become aggressive if they are not neutered or if they do not get to breed a few times a year. Most will begin to display this through food aggression to begin with but it can and does lead to other forms of aggression. Many times people like to blame breeds and genetics when there are other issues to look at. This may or may not be the case with the dog you mentioned I don't know but I thought it was good information to know and think about when discussing this subject. I have a dog that is half Boxer and half Pitt and she is the greatest dog I have ever had and I have been training dogs my whole life. She is my 31/2 year olds best friend and I trust her with my daughters life. She has never displayed aggression towards us or any of the other dogs in our pack because she is a happy and balanced dog.

Pitt Bulls, Boxers, German Shepherds, and Rottweiler's are all considered powerful breed dogs. Powerful breed dogs are not for everybody but they are the most loyal and faithful dogs that one could own. They do require more attention than other dogs but that doesn't mean that they are dangerous. I have been bitten over 25 times in my life and have yet to be bitten by a powerful breed dog. Any dog that is mistreated, neglected, or abused is capable of being dangerous.

Good point! I can't believe I overlooked the "neuter" part. Yes, the Pitt bull I mentioned isn't neutered.

I'm all for dogs. I love dogs and I have one now.

To reiterate some other posters, yes, The handler is at fault a vast majority of the time. People tend to look at their dogs as other people and that is a huge mistake. They are living, thinking, animals, not inanimate objects. They are hard-wired to be treated like dogs, because that's what they are.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


You know what? You probably make the best point of the thread by emphasizing training and REAL training...not just house breaking them to poop outside, is required. So many seem to think that's a job well done and all the work required.

It runs it a bit against my own point here, but then, i'm not in discussions to win anything, so there is an example (now that you mention it) which stands out like a neon sign to make your point.

Duck Dynasty recently had an episode on where a replacement dog was required for their duck hunts. It wasn't a beagle or some other traditional tracker that showed up. It as a Poodle. A poodle of all things.. lol. I can't even begin to describe what it would be like to show up with a poodle to a Missouri hunt. Err.... You might as well bring bright pink guns and wear a tu-tu for how kind anyone would likely be about it.

Still? That little poodle took right off and recovered the duck like it was born to it. (A Poodle?!) So, I guess that reinforces the point that training is paramount and no animal can be left to 'train itself'. Their natural instincts are not often what we'd like to see.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


People tend to forget that Poodles are a great working dog.

Some moron thought it would be cute to shave them up like some douche bag hipster.


sorry to all poodles who were offended by the hipster comparison.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


In the case of this particular 'type' of dog you may want to be checking out the parents family tree.
Otherwise you stand a good chance of getting a doggie Jeffery Dalhmer. (adopted, raised right looked normal and he still turned out to be a sadistic cannibal.
There are a lot of inbred dogs that have problems (cocker spanials, dalmations, german shephards, and so on) BUT the pit type has an incredible bite strength they lock their jaws and whip their head after they bite.
What should the rest of society do?


Looking at the owners stance in this video I 100% blame the outcome on the owner but come on the attacked dog was a blind mans guide dog and the 'owner' of the pit was even afraid approach his own dog to break up the fight.
What would your solution be to make it safe for everyone but the aggressive loose-cannon-on-deck dog owner?
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by VforVendettea


It is a myth that any dog can lock it's jaws.
Also pitt is just a new name for mutt.

reply to post by thesaneone


What is the term you use when a dog clams down and will not release when the dogs owner is punching it in the head to get it to let go?

And the proper term is mongrel.

I don't have a problem wit h the breed.
They are not my cup of tea but there is a lovely one on youtube called Sharky that I would take in a minute but he isn't what society expect to see in the breed and they should. I'm sure Sharky would step up to the plate against a burglar and still the chicks are not only safe from him they push him around and chase him way from his own dinner bowl.

I've heard of Pits that fought for years, that were taken home, and became the most docile dog you have ever seen. I've heard of a Jack Russell killing a baby.

I'm the proud owner of an almost year old Pit. We still have some work to do, but we're getting there. I've watched this dog get so excited to meet people that he's literally choked himself unconscious for a second or two (he's fallen over twitching). He goes nuts if you stand outside and talk to me, and ignore him. Pits are at times the smartest dog I have ever seen (I can prove he understands almost everything I say to him), and at times the dumbest thing I have ever seen (he does things that make us think he would forget to breathe if he could sometimes).

To be honest, I feel sorry for him. He wasn't six months old, was already in love with everyone he met, but as soon as people found out he was a Pit, they were backing away from him and scared of him.

A fighting dog can make a great pet, and a great pet can be a fighting dog. ANY dog can be "dangerous", be they chihuahua, Jack Russell, or Pitbull Terrier. It doesn't matter what the breed is.

reply to post by VforVendettea


I was recently involved in a dog fight when on a walk, terrifying thing. It went after my dog, not me, but my hand got clamped onto while trying to break it up. There is no easy solution to solving this issue with dogs, it could be as simple as a child throwing a tantrum, to walking your dog in your own yard. The other dog that attacked me and my lab is normally not violent, other then barking at us behind an invisible fence. He has even visited my dog on occasion if he gets through, but when he approached us on my dogs territory they both just got into it.

My sisters both save pit bulls, and my brother won't let his kids visit them without being present, because of the risk. I think they have their dogs very well trained and are caring animal lovers. But I'd like to see all owners this way. Take a test, a few hour training course every week with the dog, and purchase through a certified place, or person. Nothing over the top, just change the laws to make owners more responsible. It could help with over "pupulation" and animal cruelty also. The only problem is that there will always be pups being born, and people giving them out, or finding strays, and of course they will find a way to still fight dogs.

Zaphod58
A fighting dog can make a great pet, and a great pet can be a fighting dog. ANY dog can be "dangerous", be they chihuahua, Jack Russell, or Pitbull Terrier. It doesn't matter what the breed is.

Very true, my black lab has rolled over on his back when my friends german shepherd shows his dominance (ex K9 police dog), but when our neighbors dog attacked him and had him by the neck, i don't know how but i got it off my dog, and he got my hand. My lab just went crazy and bit into the attacking dog and kicked his ass till he was away from me, with bloodied hands and no one in sight. If it wasn't for him I may have been hurt much worse. Since that day he is still the most lovable dog.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


I am sorry for the fate of her father but wonder why if he was a rescue from a fighting ring why wasn't he snipped first thing - he was, as you said too aggressive to be redeemed.
Plus your puppy is only 7 months old who knows what the future holds for her.
Cruiser/War Admiral/Nasrulla/Tobasco Cat were all deadly aggressive stallions but whose get won/win races and are handled like explosive materials why take the risk with so called 'pet' dogs?
I am not advocating not rescuing pitbull type dogs but research what you are rescuing.

The secret to training any type of animal or human is to command it's respect because you can run it down to near the point of collapse, and then go back home and nurse it back to health. I don't mean to abusively run it down, but as I ran with my dog till he didn't want to run anymore, I was on a bicycle and he was running along side on a leash, 30 miles later he was happy to ride in the burley on the way back home. We did this until he was too old to do it any more, he was a happy dog till the day he dropped dead from old age. Works the same with people.

A lot of people I see have dogs that have little or no respect for them, and get into mischief because they are punished for things by their masters for things they don't understand. If you are gone and the dog poops in the house, it is your fault for not being there, or for leaving his food down for him to eat too much, or being gone too long and forgetting to walk the dog before leaving.

Dogs only have an understanding of now, not the past, they only exist in the present, and you have to be part of the present and keep things under control, and no matter how hard you try to keep bad things from happening, it doesn't work if the animal has no respect for you, same with people.

A lot of dog owners are really not so involved with their pooches, and treat them like something you can throw into storage, like a car or other inanimate thing. You treat people like that and end up with all the stupid things people do in this world.

It isn't the breed, it's the training you give the dog in such a way as to gain it's respect, as well as being absolutely sure you have done everything within your power to keep bad things from happening. If you can't run as fast as it does, you had better keep it on a leash, instead of storing it in your yard and hope nobody leaves the gate open.

Another thing that has always irked me about improper education when it comes to dogs is their body language and what that means. Even though they can't speak in English or any other "known language" to us, they do "talk" with their body language and vocalisations. If you truly want to be a great puppy parent, you have to know these things.

Over the course of my many years working and living with dogs, I've learned body language is key when learning their signs of how they feel and what they are doing. It is also not impossible to train your dog using doggie verbal and body language techniques. For example, I have three dogs right now, my "favorite" (he's technically my dog, so he's my favorite out of the three; though I do love them all equally) is my Blue Heeler, Wolfgang. Through previous education on my part about "doggie language; verbally and through body language", I have been able to take my position of "Alpha" without any "training" of him using traditional methods. And he behaves just as he should with those "Alpha" body language and verbal communications I use; he is the "Omega" and he behaves as such.

To further help prove just what learning proper verbal and body language techniques can do, watch this (yes, it is technically about wolves, but dogs do share a lot with wolves, especially when it comes to their "language"):



It's amazing what you can do when you properly train an animal, huh?

reply to post by usmc0311


Amen to eveything you said!

Knowledge is power.

VforVendettea
reply to post by Rosinitiate

 

I am sorry for the fate of her father but wonder why if he was a rescue from a fighting ring why wasn't he snipped first thing - he was, as you said too aggressive to be redeemed.
Plus your puppy is only 7 months old who knows what the future holds for her.
Cruiser/War Admiral/Nasrulla/Tobasco Cat were all deadly aggressive stallions but whose get won/win races and are handled like explosive materials why take the risk with so called 'pet' dogs?
I am not advocating not rescuing pitbull type dogs but research what you are rescuing.

Your first point about Capone. Well Capone had papers and the owner wanted to breed it for the value if nothing else. It should be noted that Capone was an awesome dog and I cried when it was put down. His issue was dogs and children and if given an opportunity would attack and kill in a heartbeat. My friend made it a point to keep Capone in a safe environment, i.e. no kids or dogs unless it was Eve (the puppy he kept). One day Capone jumped through a closed window to attack a child. The child wasn't hurt thankfully and that was when he decided to put him to sleep.

The litter that came from Capone was awesome and as I said Eve was a part of that. She had a litter that spawned Sasha and she was also an amazing Pit with great personality. She bred a litter that spawned Loki and boy was he the energegtic pup for being the runt of the litter. I saw this family grow from generation to generation and never once (to my knowledge) did any of those dogs attack or kill anyone. At least not the ones that stayed close to the family which was many. I still have pictures of me with Capones litter, and a picture of me holding 4 of the 9 puppies from Eve. I absolutely love this breed and anyone who has spent enough time around them understands why.

My dog who is now 7 months old has already shown her behavior and it is that of a loving dog. She plays well with my 5yr old daughter and the only incident was a scratch on my daughters face from Ev-E (names after Eve) putting her front paws up trying to say hello. That said, Ev-E has since learned to keep her front paws firmly planted on the ground.

It should also be noted that although I love Pit's to no end I would never in a million years leave my daughter alone with any dog let alone my own that I personally trained.