ANOTHER child killed by pit bulls.

reply to post by thesaneone


It's only bad parenting if you don't properly educate the dog. My parents used to leave me alone with our (gasp!) "fighting dog" Chow-chow all the time when I was a kid. And you know what happened? The dog ended up saving my life, that's what happened. He didn't bite my throat out, he didn't viciously attack me. And you know why? Because my dad TRAINED him to be a wonderful dog.

It all comes down to training. And if you don't believe me that "fighting dogs" can save children's lives, here's a few links for you to read.

Argintine dog saves abandoned baby (looks like a German Shepherd)
Heroic Doberman saves toddler from deadly snake
Hero Pitbull saves family from fire

And here's a link to a Pitbull Hero's Hall of Fame page so you can read more about this "dangerous breed" SAVING peoples and other animals LIVES.
Pitbull Hero's Hall of Fame

The breed isn't at fault, the owners are if something happens to their child because of bad puppy parenting.

As people selectively breed these dog for fighting it, the behavior will get into the genetics. Whether being a "nice owner" will overcome it 100% of the time, I doubt it.

reply to post by Dondylion


I would never blame a breed for their actions, and yes dogs have protected owners but once in a blue moon a dog can get pissy just like humans do. A dog will never be a babysitter in my house.

reply to post by rangerdanger


Utah is not exactly So Cal, LA, Orange, SD counties nor are you familiar with the effects of a dogfighting underground.
Go have a rootbeer and pet the safe non-fighting bred pitbulls that you are familiar with and should be the countrywide standard we have a problem down here that you are unfamiliar with.

reply to post by thesaneone


YES!!!!!
Star! If I knew how to flag I would.

Any animal, no matter how nicey nice the owner believes it to be should never be allowed to run free in any place other than a controlled environment such as a dog park or fenced in area. I ride a bicycle a lot, all over the country, and encounter many "free dogs" as I term it, and usually they just chase me around for fun and go back home, but sometimes not.....

People who don't understand why something with a mouth full of cutting utensils and the ability to run at 30 miles per hour should be controlled, should not be dog owners, and maybe shouldn't have kids either if they don't have any more common sense than that.

I am a dog person, and have a dog right now, I have had dogs off and on through most of my life.

Whether one wants to admit it or not, there is a contract between you and your dog, and between you and other people property and things. If one cannot communicate something to a thing or person and get a acknowledgement as to whether that thing or person understands what one is attempting to communicate to it ( children, dogs, etc...) that person or thing must be monitored / controlled by a responsible person or the person who should have been responsible risks being held liable for the mischief that child, dog or whatever gets into.

Laws are written for stupid people with little or no common sense, or just people who are too lazy to consider the consequences of their actions, I grow weary of reading about things such as this....

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I agree with you, but there is always that chance of a dog turning, especially a breed with the genetics of a Pitt Bull Terrier, Perro De Pressa Canario, Fila Brasilo, etc. That was basically my point of my first post. I didn't think I needed to simplify it.

reply to post by kimish

Any breed of dog has the potential to turn, as they are really just wolves in dogs clothing.
Too many think their dog is no threat to anyone just because they supposedly trained it and give it a good home.
Dogs do not need us, they can survive in the wilderness just fine without us, too many neglect to consider that and pay the price.

reply to post by kimish


I read your first post and I would like to ask you a question. You said it was a male dog, was it neutered? Any male dog regardless of breed will become aggressive if they are not neutered or if they do not get to breed a few times a year. Most will begin to display this through food aggression to begin with but it can and does lead to other forms of aggression. Many times people like to blame breeds and genetics when there are other issues to look at. This may or may not be the case with the dog you mentioned I don't know but I thought it was good information to know and think about when discussing this subject. I have a dog that is half Boxer and half Pitt and she is the greatest dog I have ever had and I have been training dogs my whole life. She is my 31/2 year olds best friend and I trust her with my daughters life. She has never displayed aggression towards us or any of the other dogs in our pack because she is a happy and balanced dog.

Pitt Bulls, Boxers, German Shepherds, and Rottweiler's are all considered powerful breed dogs. Powerful breed dogs are not for everybody but they are the most loyal and faithful dogs that one could own. They do require more attention than other dogs but that doesn't mean that they are dangerous. I have been bitten over 25 times in my life and have yet to be bitten by a powerful breed dog. Any dog that is mistreated, neglected, or abused is capable of being dangerous.

reply to post by buster2010


Once upon a time a dog resembling the pitbull was indeed the family dog. Fiercely loyal and never quit gameness. The SW strain has been bred for the never quit but not so much for the loyalty* -loyalty is inconsequential if kept on a chain but the never quit is what someone wants in a dog fighting for 'sport'.


*Rescued dogs will cling to anyone who offers them kindness but the potential for damage is always there. Would you bet everything you own that your pit-bull rescue dog to knows the difference between a robber coming over the back fence to steal from you and the neighbor child trying to get his ball that went over the fence back? You might have to

My wife and I were just discussing this very topic...we are 'dog people', both of us having always been around dogs and brought up in homes that have always had dogs.

We reason that ALL dogs, regardless of breed or size of dog ought to be required to be muzzled when out in public...ALL dogs.

This way, no one can claim they are being victimised or unfairly treated because of bad press or public perceptions around breeds.

If they are muzzled, they cannot intimidate, bite, injure or indeed kill anyone.

Punishments ought to be set up alongside this muzzle legislation and a progressively more severe ladder if repeadly caught not muzzling their dogs.

First offence of dog in public without a muzzle = £50 (or equiv)
Second offence = £200
Third offence = The dog is removed and rehomed and owner charged for the dogs care and homing costs, owner is also banned from owning any more dogs for a period of 2 years. (permanent ban if caught again without a muzzled dog in public)

This wouldn't do much to prevent attacks on children and others in a home situation, but it will prevent dogs attacking people out and about.

As for breeds and dangerous dogs...the rule of thumb that i believe is shockingly obvious and simple common sense is this; if you have children DO NOT keep a dog that is **easily** capable of killing a child, LIKE a pitbull or other large and powerful muscular breed.

It comes down to what you value the most...the safety of your children or...owning a large breed dog.

And oh yes...ALL dogs are absolutely lovely, have a gentle and loving temperament UNTIL they decide otherwise. Dogs are NOT Human, they do not have a logical mind, they work mostly on instinct and they can be highly unpredictable and snap, even after being a lovely family pet for years.

Your kids are worth infinitely more than your dog, just remember that.

Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by kimish

 

Oh, refer to your previous post? Since that makes a difference...

Listen, my pit bull was outside with me about a month ago...A neighbor and his dog came out of my woods on my property and my pit took off like a bolt of lightning....He was about to murder this dog, he jumped at the dog and tackled the dog when I saw this going on I yelled immediately at him....He tackled the other dog and while he was a half a second away from ripping the other dogs throat out, I yelled and he stopped immediately, sat down, looked back at me and I told him to come to me right NOW!

So, he stood up, ran back to me and sat down beside me while still looking down my yard toward the other dog....The neighbor and his still healthy dog walked back into the woods and continued around my property instead of walking through my yard.

Needless to say, if my dog wasn't very well trained BY ME, the other dog would have been dead and I would be answering for his actions, as I should be.....BUT he didn't because I said so and I can tell about this as a story now instead of showing my arrest papers.....As it should be!!

Point of all of this is, I took the time to take responsibility for my dog, trained him properly and he listens to my every command no matter what! This is how a dog should act at all times, with absolutely zero chance of attack when I am around to give him orders....Hence, my fault if I am present and he does something bad...

So what happens then if you are not around and your dog is attacking another dog or a toddler? Will it listen to another human's voice? Who's fault will it be?

VforVendettea

Wrabbit2000 The problem is, those of the long fighting and vicious bloodlines don't carry some distinct mark on them. There is no way to know sometimes. Just the breed known to be chosen for that very trait they share

Yes they do. It's called DNA testing. Horse associations do it all the time and it is under 100$ for a test that can tell you not just that your horse is 99.609375% x breed but in the breeds that have implemented DNA testing they can pin the grandparents on both sides and you can by elimination figure out who your horse you are holding the reins to is.

Okay, you'll have to explain a bit more how that works. I don't mean the pro-level breeders or those who only buy their animals from documented lines. I know some do swear by the registrations and will not even consider one without a bloodline that can be followed and known.

Personally, I've never owned a registered animal for pedigree and only know one person who did. An odd fellow and it was his thing...

So... if I see a Pit at the pound, out front of Walmart in a bin with a new litter or just rescued from someone who can't deal with a pet for whatever reason ....I.E.. absolutely nowhere to go for background like that ......What do I do to know if I got a Pit bull that will make my son a happy guy, or the dog that will eat him when we aren't looking and he annoys it a little bit? I think that's where inherent traits to a breed do play into things for judgement and expectations.

marhaba

Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by kimish

 

Oh, refer to your previous post? Since that makes a difference...

Listen, my pit bull was outside with me about a month ago...A neighbor and his dog came out of my woods on my property and my pit took off like a bolt of lightning....He was about to murder this dog, he jumped at the dog and tackled the dog when I saw this going on I yelled immediately at him....He tackled the other dog and while he was a half a second away from ripping the other dogs throat out, I yelled and he stopped immediately, sat down, looked back at me and I told him to come to me right NOW!

So, he stood up, ran back to me and sat down beside me while still looking down my yard toward the other dog....The neighbor and his still healthy dog walked back into the woods and continued around my property instead of walking through my yard.

Needless to say, if my dog wasn't very well trained BY ME, the other dog would have been dead and I would be answering for his actions, as I should be.....BUT he didn't because I said so and I can tell about this as a story now instead of showing my arrest papers.....As it should be!!

Point of all of this is, I took the time to take responsibility for my dog, trained him properly and he listens to my every command no matter what! This is how a dog should act at all times, with absolutely zero chance of attack when I am around to give him orders....Hence, my fault if I am present and he does something bad...

So what happens then if you are not around and your dog is attacking another dog or a toddler? Will it listen to another human's voice? Who's fault will it be?

Bigger question: Why did his pit go into full war-mode at the mere sight of a man with his dog?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wrabbit I can't say I disagree with you because you post valid points..

Having said that, that is YOUR decision, as a human, as a pet owner, as a father/mother.....If you have children and don't feel comfortable with a dog, don't buy one!

If you make the decision to get a dog with children, please be sure to take the appropriate actions training the dog very well, actually training.....Make sure YOU are the one putting the dog in bad situations for training purposes!

The last thing you want is your 2 year old stealing a bone from the dog and it biting your kid! You do this over and over, to train this dog it will get the bone back when you say so....There are very simple things that can be done for a dog for training and it doesn't require tons of money, just patience! This will also make your dog trust you more and become "man's best friend" for you!

reply to post by Foundryman


Precisely! His contention only bolster the fact that no amount of training can stop what was ingrained purposely on this kind of breed. It's on the genes, you may be able to suppress it but not all the time.

reply to post by marhaba

So what happens then if you are not around and your dog is attacking another dog or a toddler? Will it listen to another human's voice? Who's fault will it be?

My dog is around me all the time. He stays in the house when I am not home and is with me every second of every day when I am home....Along with my daughter that is...

It will be my fault if something happens and I would take 100% of the blame, guaranteed! He trusts me, I trust him....That is my best friend, my brother, my dog.....

Yes but kids-and adults-get killed by allk kinds of dogs.Owners of breeds jnown to be of aggresive nature should really take special precautions.But any dog can kill.

There is a thibg that happend in my country-a womam went to her washline to bring in thr clothing before leaving for a weekend getway.This dog she had,they were inseperabe,they practically worshiped the ground each other walked on.

And suddenly,this dog,whovloves this woman so much-he just gets it into his head to attack+kill his beloved owner.

Any dog can kill.

Foundryman

marhaba

Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by kimish

 

Oh, refer to your previous post? Since that makes a difference...

Listen, my pit bull was outside with me about a month ago...A neighbor and his dog came out of my woods on my property and my pit took off like a bolt of lightning....He was about to murder this dog, he jumped at the dog and tackled the dog when I saw this going on I yelled immediately at him....He tackled the other dog and while he was a half a second away from ripping the other dogs throat out, I yelled and he stopped immediately, sat down, looked back at me and I told him to come to me right NOW!

So, he stood up, ran back to me and sat down beside me while still looking down my yard toward the other dog....The neighbor and his still healthy dog walked back into the woods and continued around my property instead of walking through my yard.

Needless to say, if my dog wasn't very well trained BY ME, the other dog would have been dead and I would be answering for his actions, as I should be.....BUT he didn't because I said so and I can tell about this as a story now instead of showing my arrest papers.....As it should be!!

Point of all of this is, I took the time to take responsibility for my dog, trained him properly and he listens to my every command no matter what! This is how a dog should act at all times, with absolutely zero chance of attack when I am around to give him orders....Hence, my fault if I am present and he does something bad...

So what happens then if you are not around and your dog is attacking another dog or a toddler? Will it listen to another human's voice? Who's fault will it be?

Bigger question: Why did his pit go into full war-mode at the mere sight of a man with his dog?

He didn't go into "full war mode"....He went into this is my property mode! He also went into another animal won't hurt my owner mode.....I told him it is fine and told him to stop, poof, like magic he did.....Wonder why that is??

We have a lot of woods around our house and that land is his....If I say so....I told him to stop and sit, he did immediately and came back to my side.....Training goes a long way with protection dogs....My doberman before my pit bull was even smarter, but just as loyal and no harm to anyone ever came from my dobe either.....Or my German Sheperd before him.....

There's something about pit bull psyche that makes them more dangerous than other dogs. All dogs have the capacity to bite, but when pits do it they go for the kill. They just don't stop. The more you fight back the harder they attack.

There was video of Gabby Gifford's pitbull attacking a seal. The woman was yelling and pulling on the leash and the animal would not stop. It took a physical intervention by the alpha male (Mark Kelly) to make it stop but it already was too late.

I've seen pitbull videos where the animal is clamped on a human being and won't let go even though people are hitting the dog. They don't stop. They bear down even harder when someone tries to intervene.

I personally knew a pitbull that was blinded because of its own actions. It met a porcupine and got a few quills in its snout. The pain of this "attack" enraged the pit. The pit bored in on its attack. The more quills, the more pain. The more pain the harder it attacked. Itblinded itself on the quills and still would not stop. It only stopped when the porcupine was dead. My buddy was forced to euthanize his pit. The pits name was Bandit - one of those "sweet, loving" family dogs raised from a pup.