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mbkennel
What evidence is there that they were "duped"? Nobody said "oh yes this (junk) is brilliant!". Nobody published a paper or gave a good review. They sat politely and didn't understand a word which is what you expect to happen. Also, most mathemetician's personalities are not aggressive, so even if they thought it was BS they wouldn't bother to say so publicly.
Research mathematics is sufficiently difficult that non-experts in a particular field, even top mathematicians, might not be able to distinguish good from bad. And the professionals working in that know it.edit on 26-9-2013 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)
simus
Another problem with your logic is this. If almost all of the lecture was correct, as you insist, then why
Nobody had got anything out of this lecture save Rene de Possel
?
bastion
You can get a hint of BS, but like you say most maths types are pretty meek objections would generally be questions like 'I don't follow what you did here...' rather than 'professor, you're using incredibly obscure and complicated calculations here, I don't understand them all immediately, therefore you're talking complete BS'.
simus
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
Here is the complete description of the lecture
a talk which, taking off from a modicum of classical function theory, rose by imperceptible degrees to the most extravagant heights, ending with a "Bourbaki's theorem"
So only the very beginning was correct, afterward nonsense gradually increased. Your statement that only the end of the lecture was nonsensical is obviously wrong.
Another problem with your logic is this. If almost all of the lecture was correct, as you insist, then why
Nobody had got anything out of this lecture save Rene de Possel
?
Moduli
1+1=2
1+2=3
1+3=4
1+4=5
1+5=6
1+6=7
1+7=8
1+9=10
purple monkey dishwasher
Most of my post is correct; how much did you get out of it?edit on 28-9-2013 by Moduli because: (no reason given)
Nobody had got anything out of this lecture save Rene de Possel who believed he had understood some ideas
simus
This example vividly demonstrates your fertile mathematical imagination. Now here is the quote
Nobody had got anything out of this lecture save Rene de Possel who believed he had understood some ideas
So what do you say about a person who finds ideas in your masterpiece?
OccamsRazor04
It started off 100% math, and gradually less and less was real math. There is nothing that contradicts the assertion it was not mostly real math, and logically I can assume that like most good lies it was backed up by mostly truth. This is backed up by the fact he started off with 100% real math.
OccamsRazor04
Nothing you posted proves it was not mostly real math.
OccamsRazor04
No one got anything out of it because the real math that was used they already understood. It was when he went off radar with the lies (which would be the "new information") that everyone became lost. This really isn't hard to figure out.
Byrd
To add to this, the first documents a speaker who is from a different discipline talking to non-experts (mathematician to psychologists.) Psychologists can't tell if a math theory is good or not, any more than an astronomer can tell if a Bayesian network theory is sound or sheer garbage.
Byrd
In the second case, it was to a class. In class, we are expected to be respectful to a lecturer and to not stand up and shout "nonsense" or yawn or be rude.
Byrd
Let them present it to a REAL academic conference and a REAL set of experts on the subject. If they'd presented the "Math for psychologists" to a math conference, the pseudo-expert would have been raked over the coals.
Byrd
I've heard of this happening (this is why people from the so-called fringe sciences do not present at formal conferences. When they try, they get a lot of questions they can't answer.)
simus
Mathematicians listened to a hoax lecture and did not suspect anything. Some claimed that they understood the nonsensical lecture.
ecclesiastes911.net...
bastion
Maths lectures aren't like normal lectures. The lecturer spends pretty much all the time deriving equations while students hurriedly scribble down everything he's writing/saying before the lecture is over, then you spend the next week trying to get your head 'round it all.
bastion
most maths types are pretty meek
bastion
objections would generally be questions like 'I don't follow what you did here...' rather than 'professor, you're using incredibly obscure and complicated calculations here, I don't understand them all immediately, therefore you're talking complete BS'.
bastion
My own experience. Considering I got a 1st class honours with distinction and merit it certainly had nothing to do with my own ability. Third year was easy but second year required working round the clock five days a week to keep up with things and about 2/3 of the class failed that year.
Lectures are there to rush through all derivations. Seminars, tutorials and independent study is where you actually take it all in and ask questions.
bastion
At least in the UK anyway. For each lecture you're expected to put in a bare minimum of 20 hours independent study to grasp the subject.
simus
bastion
My own experience. Considering I got a 1st class honours with distinction and merit it certainly had nothing to do with my own ability. Third year was easy but second year required working round the clock five days a week to keep up with things and about 2/3 of the class failed that year.
Lectures are there to rush through all derivations. Seminars, tutorials and independent study is where you actually take it all in and ask questions.
If what you are saying is true, and the best student in the class did not understand anything during the lectures and only had time to scribble the equations, what is the use of those lectures? All the equations are already neatly printed in the textbooks.
bastion
At least in the UK anyway. For each lecture you're expected to put in a bare minimum of 20 hours independent study to grasp the subject.
Really? Then you can have only two lectures a week.
bastion
This is University level, most of he Maths we did was too recent/advanced to have texts on it. We didn't use textbooks as you're expected to derive and prove everything by using mathematical ability rather than learning by wrote.
bastion Like I said, Maths lectures aren't like normal lectures.
bastion You have, at most, 10 contact hours with staff per week. The rest of he time you're expected to teach yourself as that's the only way to become a mathematician.
bastion If someone is only capable of working within what a textbook/lecturer taught them they'd be completely useless once they've graduated.