It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Ever Hear Of The Achtiname of Muhammad? Is It Genuine?

page: 2
<< 1   >>

log in


posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 07:22 PM
Domo1, thread participants, and the reading audience,

Islam's earliest beginnings were founded upon Islamic and Christian friendship and mutual religious tolerance. While the newly ordained religion of Islam had few followers, no military might, and no edicts of jihad,... the new Muslims found themselves victimized by the pagan Arabs of Mecca. Many Muslims fled to Abyssinia, (Aksum, Ethiopia), where the Christian King al-Najashi Ashama ibn Abjar welcomed the Muslims and offered them protection and asylum.

The 'Achtiname of Muhammad' covenant to the monks of St. Catherine's Monastery is another beautiful example of inter-religious understanding, tolerance, and peace.

All efforts to bridge gaps and bring people together are wonderful intentions, in the past, present, and future.

However, the teachings of peace and religious tolerance were over-ruled in the late Medinian-period of Muhammad's life,... where the revelations of the Qur'an and Muhammad's own example became more and more focused on jihad, jizyah tax (non-believer tax), forced conversion, and military conquest.

It is my hope that people of all religions, faiths, beliefs, and ideologies will come together in a peaceful coexistence of brotherly understanding. However, we must address the truth of issues if we are to cultivate the light.


posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If Mohammad was ordered to kill every single Christian, then the middle east would have become 100% Muslim within Mohammads lifetime - with no trace of Christianity. Instead we see that after 1400 years of Muslim domination of the Middle East, we still have a sizeable Christian population.

"Totalitarianism"? The Middle easts sizeable Christian population refutes that.

What are you talking about? It is known historic fact that Muhammad and his successors wiped out the Christians, Jews, and Pagans from the Arabian Peninsula!

Let us look at the actions of Muhammad, while taking the historic chronology of Qur’anic revelation into consideration:

Upon leaving Mecca to establish his stronghold in Medina in 622 CE/AD, Muhammad was still preaching peace, tolerance, and religious freedom. The Jews of Medina, as shown in the following painting, happily welcomed Muhammad as new ruler of Medina. In the early days of Muhammad’s arrival to the new city, the Jewish tribes of Banu Khazraj and Banu Aws merged together with some other smaller Jewish factions and Jewish individuals, converted to Islam, and became known as the Ansar (Helpers).

Some Jewish tribes of Medina and its vicinity chose to retain their Jewish heritage, religion, and identity during Muhammad’s reign. Most notable are the tribes of Banu Qaynuqa, Banu Nadir, and Banu Qurayza. All Jews of Medina and the surrounding area were ordered to pay the jizya tax to Muhammad. Jizya is a tax imposed upon non-Muslims living in Muslim lands.

When Muhammad took sovereign reign over his new stronghold of Medina, Allah’s revelations began to break away from the message of peace and began to move towards jihad. Muhammad and his followers began jihad military operations by first attacking and robbing unarmed and unprotected merchant caravans. These aggressive acts of highway robbery helped to strengthen Muhammad’s government and military. These caravan robberies had a tremendous impact upon the markets of the Arabian Peninsula.

As a combined result of the imposed jizya tax and Muhammad’s destabilization of trading and markets in the area, the once welcoming Jews of Medina began to voice public dissident and write degrading accounts and poems about Muhammad. Displeased with the freedom of speech that unhappy Jews were voicing, Muhammad declared unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations of assassination plots being planned against him. Muhammad then ordered many successful assassinations against various Jewish tribe leaders.

The first Jewish tribe of Medina to be targeted was Banu Qaynuga. Muhammad and his army besieged their village for 14 days. Banu Qaynuga then surrendered and all of their land, businesses, wealth, and goods were seized by Muhammad, and the tribe was forcefully expelled from Medina. They eventually settled in Syria.

The next group of Jews on Muhammad’s list was Banu Nadir. Their plight is mentioned above in the second post of the op. They were attacked, their wealth, property, and goods were confiscated, their men were executed, and their women and children were enslaved.

As a result of Muhammad’s indiscriminate robbery of merchant caravans and his tyrannical attacks against Banu Qaynuga and Banu Nadir, the non-muslim Arabs and Jews of the Meccan area launched a failed attack against Muhammad known as The Battle of the Trenches.

During the Battle of the Trenches, the Banu Qurayza tribe remained neutral and did not participate in the war. However, after winning this war, Muhammad turned his army against Banu Qurayza UNPROVKED, and utterly massacred all of their men, enslaved their women, and seized all property, wealth, and goods.

After the robbery, destruction, murder, enslavement, and execution of the Jews of Medina, the Jews who survived gathered with other Jewish groups to the north of Medina in the area of Khaybar. Here the Jews barricaded themselves in their settlement, desperately trying to survive Muhammad’s onslaught.

Muhammad’s forces laid siege to the Jews of Khaybar and after several weeks The Jews surrendered. In order to avoid expulsion or execution, Muhammad ordered that 50% of all of their agricultural harvests would be seized as an alms to Muhammad and his Muslims. However, Muhammad’s second successor Umar ibn al-Khattab later expelled the Jews of Khaybar out of Arabia.

edit on 9/25/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 10:16 PM
reply to post by Sahabi

Hey Sahabi!

We had a discussion on abrogation before as well, so I find it a little dishonest on your part to be repeating the same thing as if your opinion on the matter is the conclusive and final one.

You made this claim about how abrogation is somehow dependant on chronology, that one can simply ignore and toss out any verse that comes before if in ones own limited opinion it doesn't mesh with what they read that came later. This is certainly not an islamic methodology. I do not know if it is a wahabist or salafist methodology, but I have seen them flip-flop on the issue regularly.
EVEN IF your statement was true, the "No Compulsion in Religion" verse was revealed in the Medinite period, definitely at least after the Battle of Badr.
EVEN IF your statement was true, the Achtiname of Muhammad was affirmed in the Medinite period, AFTER the Battle of Badr AND the Battle of Uhud at least.

Your statement, however, is not factual, and is at most, nothing more than your opinion. Abrogation is not based off of chronology, except perhaps in your particular sect that you purport to have practised originally (although I can find several Wahabist rulings on the internet that disagree with such a methodology), and I find it disappointing (and a little hilarious) that a man who claims to uphold brotherhood and unity is setting up claims of muslim evil and violence that muslims themselves in this thread deny and disagree with! I am sorry, Sahabi, I don't know what you practised, but it seems you wasted a large portion of your life...
edit on 25-9-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 03:32 AM
Ever hear of the Urantia Book, the book of God given that abroigates all things like the Quran, hadiths and the Suras.

posted on Sep, 27 2013 @ 05:39 AM
reply to post by Sahabi

Salutations! I have read the first 4 or 5 chapters of your thread. I wanted to say thank you for sharing your point of view and for educating me on some things.

There's just one thing... If the Qu'ran has been corrupted, then unless you have access to the pristine text (or oral recitation as it may be), then it would not make much sense to use the qu'ran as proof of, well, anything. Right? If you believe that you have access to the original teachings then my point has no point in being made. But I have not finished your thread and I wanted to point that out while I was thinking about it. If its been corrupted then we can't possibly know what the original intention was, or how much was changed... we can only know what different Muslims profess to believe.

I kinda liked the idea of Islam being Christianity's teeth. Since Christians are supposed to live a peaceful life, then someone has to be available to fight wars when they are necessary for protection against the world. The Muslims would then be honored as heroes since it would not be possible to live a life of peace without them. It makes sense... Let the ones who want to fight and chop off heads do the violence, let the peaceful ones live in peace. The Quran seems to require warfare against nonbelievers, but Christians are not considered nonbelievers. They believe in a lot of the same things. Its just Christians were perhaps meant to be the ones who deal with or are more focused on peacetime things like education, agriculture, arts, science. Muslims were meant to travel to other lands to "fight the enemy there so we don't have to fight them here", and to keep the peaceful ones safe at home so that they can continue to produce better medicines, better weapons, new discoveries, etc that Everybody gets to enjoy.

It's not like saying the Muslims would be like a slave army...its just that they are not forbidden from violence like Christians. And in fact the Christians, under this supposed system, would also serve the Muslims in a multitude of ways. Crafting their weapons and armor, stitching their clothes, providing medical treatment, etc. Not sure Exactly how it would work. Just trying to envision how two different peoples, one forbidden from violence, the other not, could best live together. It's obvious that, from time to time, violence is necessary for the preservation of society. You can't just let people come and take what they please and do to you as they please, right? That's total anarchy.

Maybe there was supposed to be a system similar to this but it became corrupted like everything else and we were all turned against eachother, for the most part, and became enemies when we all were meant to serve an integral purpose in a cohesive society...

And the Buddhists were meant to be our doctors and psychiatrists and whatnot. Jews handle the money. The Satan worshippers are in charge of setting up the Haunted House every Halloween and other Halloween decorations...

See, if everyone has a job, everyone feels important, and nobody has to be jealous and nobody hates eachother and nobody fights and everybody appreciates each other for their strengths and can help eachothers weaknesses.

posted on Sep, 27 2013 @ 06:17 AM
reply to post by Domo1

I posted here a while back and just recently.

posted on Sep, 29 2013 @ 11:49 AM


Muslims call Christians "Polytheists" because of the Trinitarian beliefs and Son of God beliefs.

Please try just a tad more accuracy, for honesty's sake. That is Wahabbist theology, not Muslims in general.

posted on Sep, 29 2013 @ 03:49 PM
I've posted about The Achtiname here before, but not in a dedicated thread. I was lucky enough to spend some time in Sinai about nine years ago (during the bombing at Dahab) and worked/stayed with a couple of the Bedu tribes there including the Jebeliya who moved to the area in about 500ad (ish) to act as protectors to St Catherine's Monastery, though they later converted to Islam. They acted as our guides and hosts for part of my stay and i helped out in various building projects with them as well as working in their mountain gardens, and on our visit to St Catherines we were shown a copy of the Achtiname, the original of which is said to reside in a library in Istanbul iirc. During my stay in Sinai we were a mixed group of Brits, both Christian and otherwise, as well as Bedu Muslims (both mountain Jebeliya and desert Muzeina) and a former member of the Israeli military who was a guide for our whole stay - a more happy and united bunch you could not wish to find. The Muslims i stayed and worked with there all regarded The Achtiname as entirely genuine and highly important.

posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 04:37 PM



Muslims call Christians "Polytheists" because of the Trinitarian beliefs and Son of God beliefs.

Please try just a tad more accuracy, for honesty's sake. That is Wahabbist theology, not Muslims in general.

ATS member sk0rpi0n is a Mulim who is not a Salafist, but he said the same thing about Christianity being polytheistic;

As for christianity, it is a lost case... It is deemed polytheistic by both muslims and jews. [1]

Labeling Christians as "Polytheists" is an overwhelming common occurence amongst Muslims and Islam.

edit on 10/12/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 06:13 AM
well, what can I say, not everyone buys the strange teaching that 3 is 1. This is kindergarten level math. The bad news is that If christianity attaches partners to God, then it IS polytheistic. I also recall stating in another thread that Islam chastises christianity for this, but christians are still considered as being of the people of the book...a status that the followers of the meccan polytheist religion did NOT have. This makes christianity unique from other polytheistic religions.

posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 06:23 AM

not everyone buys the strange teaching that 3 is 1. This is kindergarten level math.

Yes ... kindergarden math .... One God Who appears in three manifestations ... not that hard to understand and even kindergarteners get it. You'd think certain grown ups could understand it as well .. but indoctrination and bigotry gets in their way.

Water can be a liquid, a solid, or a gas. And yet it's all water.
God can be the Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit. And yet He's always God.

The Holy Trinity Explained to Children
Yes ... kindergarten level .. easy peasy.

So no matter how many times Skorpion runs around trying to mislead people and say that Christianity is 'polytheistic' .. it simply is not true. Christianity = ONE GOD, three manifestations. Even a kindergartener understands it.

edit on 10/14/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 05:40 PM
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

sk0rpi0n, I'm glad that you have the integrity to admit to the Islamic teachings of Polytheism as compared to Christianity. The Qur'an spends many verses directly rebuking Christian belief of Jesus' divinity, sonship, and trinity.

With the understanding of Islamic teachings of Christian Polytheism, we can now know the true meaning of the Qur'an verses from chapter 9, which was revealed in a period later than the "Achtiname of Muhammad".

"[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists."

(Qur'an 9:1)

Not only do the later-period verses of the Qur'an illustrate the concept of invalidating all treaties, but Islamic historic events also do! With the increased campaign of jihad, conversion, and conquest that occurred in the end-period of Muhammad's life, and strictly continued during the reigns of the "4 Rightly Guided Caliphs".

posted on Oct, 15 2013 @ 12:00 PM
If it was indeed stopped I suggest the faithful create a new pact with Christianity.
All the horror we have seen in the middle east is from money,not faith. I have NEVER heard ANY sermon stating we must kill those who believe other religions.
The big fail of Jihad is they went after the wrong objective. Referring to the US as the "Great Satan" is a lousy excuse to create an enemy because the true enemy is to hard to hit, much less identify.
It's not about my freedom of speech. It's about greed murdering all of us and innocent men being used as tools for a violent minority who want isolationist totalitarianism.
You screwed up,you should have hit the globalists.

Now that the internet is exposing all the crap WE now know what the Dulles Brothers have done as an example.WE DIDN'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY KEPT SECRETS!
But hey if you WANT to keep slaughtering your own by sending them at superior combatants I guess we'll kill more.
Sickening to know.

top topics

<< 1   >>

log in