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Intersting new poll in Taiwan

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posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:47 AM
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A recent poll by 联合报, link is in chinese so I will not post it

poll deals with independence and such issues

main goal is to see how has the public opinion about indepence changed since DDP has taken control of the government since 2000

people who support
quick independence is now 21% up from 8% in 2000
slow independence now 10% down from 16% in 2000
quick unification now 6% down from 9% in 2000
slow unification now 11% down from 18% in 2000
else support status quo
It seems that the DDP government has really been able to affect public opinion on this issue in the past 4 years

on the issue of Mr. Sun
83% believes that he is the father of the nation Republic of China
5% do not, 11% didnt answer

59% believe he is also the father of the nation Taiwan 24% do not, 15% did not answer

on the issue of national name
Republic of China 45%
Taiwan 37%
16% no opinion

margin of error +- 3.2%




posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:59 AM
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quick independence is now 21% up from 8% in 2000
21% of the population have the right idea just a pity American resouces are tried up in Iraq not the time to be fighting a war with China.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 05:04 AM
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Im not the least bit surprised. Chinas bullying and heavy handedness has begun alienating more and more people. Its only a matter of time till enuf Taiwanese get tired of it.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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I think this is mainly caused by the DDP's actions

they are doing all they can trying to take China out of everything in Taiwan

most importantly is in Education

DDP has changed textbooks and put China history separate from Taiwan History

Chinese seucrity exchange has been changed to Taiwan Security Exchange

DDP is working on getting rid of China from the names of military things (a lot of stuff in Taiwan military are name after land, people and stuff from Mainland). Attemps are made so war ships will no longer be named after cities in China.

Also they are trying to get rid of China like things from the national day celebrations


I doubt the nationalist party would have done any of those things

and DDP won by 0.2%


[edit on 14-11-2004 by white_raven0]

[edit on 14-11-2004 by white_raven0]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by xpert11
quick independence is now 21% up from 8% in 2000
21% of the population have the right idea just a pity American resouces are tried up in Iraq not the time to be fighting a war with China.


actually,u don't need to feel sorry for it at all,the US govt has aleady done whatever it could to support the spitlism in China,and remarkable results have been acheived.perhaps becaz this was done in the name of "democracy","freedom","humanrights".......,so u overlooked them.


i quite understand your eagerness to see China fall into a civil war,to see the Chinese killing the Chinese.while u could offer "help" to make the war last longer and be more destructive. I am fed up this.on this point,i'm so gald that we have WMDs,perhaps when the chinese civil war started,you should be in hell already.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by suihx

Originally posted by xpert11
quick independence is now 21% up from 8% in 2000
21% of the population have the right idea just a pity American resouces are tried up in Iraq not the time to be fighting a war with China.



i quite understand your eagerness to see China fall into a civil war,to see the Chinese killing the Chinese.while u could offer "help" to make the war last longer and be more destructive. I am fed up this.on this point,i'm so gald that we have WMDs,perhaps when the chinese civil war started,you should be in hell already.


Are you on something?
I never mentioned anything about a civil war . A civil war would only be useful if a true democratic government was to emerge I cant see a civil war happening in china anytime soon. Taiwan will win independence its only a matter of when.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 05:32 AM
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The only way taiwan wins independence is if US could speak for them in UN. Taiwan doesn't have a seat in UN and US hasn't been very popular lately. Time is on China's side.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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I guess u should know the Taiwan issue is a remnant of the chinese civil war.and its independence should lead to another civil war in china.


As a chinese,i want the reunification of my country.yet I'm sorry to see so many of u are so eager to split china shamelessly in the name of "democracy".



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by suihx
As a chinese,i want the reunification of my country.yet I'm sorry to see so many of u are so eager to split china shamelessly in the name of "democracy".


What split? Taiwan is its own nation and thanks to the seemingly endless posturing, rhetoric and sabre rattling by China, the people of Taiwan grow less and less Chinese and develop thier own cultural identity.



[edit on 11/15/04 by FredT]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Thats his point FredT....he doesn't see "seperate" he sees 1 country..hence civil war.

This one is kinda hard. On one hand I see China's point...it would be like a Montana wanting independence and China is selling them weapons and supporting their independence.

But, damn, I also see Taiwains side... wanting to have freedom over their lives. Being able to speak out without fear of going to prison. Living their lives the way they want to.
Does the Chinese Government have a right to tell anyone how they can live their lives?......I think not.

Maybe the Chinese People need to take up Taiwains fight.
Tell those pricks you have a right to "YOUR" life.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
quick independence is now 21% up from 8% in 2000
21% of the population have the right idea just a pity American resouces are tried up in Iraq not the time to be fighting a war with China.

Why should the US be fighting a war for the nationalists who abandoned china during WWII to take it over again? THe US is already doing enough by protecting taiwan from a chinese invasion. Why should the US invade china and engage in nuclear war, especially when the taiwanese are independant as it is?



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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in fact, Taiwan will not lose any of its freedoms after reunification

Taiwan has the capital in negotiation right now

Taiwan can demand a constitution that garantees direct elections and all freedoms and the one country two system will work perfectly there.

In fact, China has stated that even change of the Chinese national title and flag are negotiable


Hong Kong's constitution (basic law) does garantee all kinds of personal freedoms but does not garantee full direct elections and the British agreed to that.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by white_raven0]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by white_raven0
in fact, Taiwan will not lose any of its freedoms after reunification

Hows that possible? They won't be reunified with china then? Hong Kong retained many of its freedoms, but certainly not all, and even then its all subject to the whim of the central government.



Taiwan can demand a constitution that garantees direct elections and all freedoms and the one country two system will work perfectly there.

Sure, as long as the central government decides that it meets their needs. I honestly doubt that they will see it that way for long. At the very least, taiwan would become the boon of a new internal migration phenomenon as mainland chinese relocate to taiwan.


In fact, China has stated that even change of the Chinese national title and flag are negotiable

How cute.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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actually, mainland chinese won't be able to migrate to Taiwan even after unification just as they cannot today to Hong Kong.

This was obviously done to preserve one country two system



The central government has some say in Hong Kong matters today because the constitution grants the central overnment such rights which Hong Kong and the British government agreed to. The main problem that we are having today is full direct elections. In the Basic Law it is stated that the central government has the right to decide when Hong Kong can directly elected all of its government officials.

Taiwan on the other hand has enormous negotiative capital today and can negotiate a constitution which garantees all rights that are enjoyed by people living in the Republic of China currently. The only authorities Taiwan will have to give up are those of national defense (which is mainly there to defend against the mainland today) and foreign policies (which is almost nonexistent today). Therefore, Taiwan will lose almost nothing while gaining a lot!

Independence, however, means possible massive destruction and deaths. I truely hope the people of Taiwan do not choose this path.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by white_raven0]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by white_raven0]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by suihx
I guess u should know the Taiwan issue is a remnant of the chinese civil war.and its independence should lead to another civil war in china.


How can it be a civil war if Taiwan becomes a independent countrie ?
Theres only one government in china just who will the government be fighting?



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 09:57 PM
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How can it be a civil war if Taiwan becomes a independent countrie ?
Theres only one government in china just who will the government be fighting?


then,please tell me
when the south of the US declare independence,why there followed a war,
and why u it a civil war.How can it be a civil war if the south of the US becomes a independent country.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by suihx]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 10:32 PM
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thanks to the seemingly endless posturing, rhetoric and sabre rattling by China, the people of Taiwan grow less and less Chinese and develop thier own cultural identity.
[edit on 11/15/04 by FredT]

i guess u don't understand chinese,if u've seen the news in Taiwan and the mainland,u'll know who is " endless posturing, rhetoric and sabre rattling",and u also will know who is behind this.


it seems have build into your minds that what the chinese govnt says and does are wrong.whenever the chinese say sth on its side,it is becaz they had been brainwashed.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 10:54 PM
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then,please tell me
when the south of the US declare independence,why there followed a war,
and why u it a civil war.How can it be a civil war if the south of the US becomes a independent country.

Your not makeing any sense Taiwan is a separate countrie. It wouldnt be a civil war. It would be a war between China and the USA and any allies that join in the fight.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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Your not makeing any sense Taiwan is a separate countrie. It wouldnt be a civil war. It would be a war between China and the USA and any allies that join in the fight.



In fact this is not true. Taiwan is known officially as Republic of China. The whole issue originated in the late 40's when the communists defeated the nationalists in the civil war.

After WWII, the communist government pretty much controlled northern China while the nationalists controlled the South. Chiang thought that the Long River would be a natural divide that Mao can never overcome. However, he was mistaken and was defeated. Then many people, including the nationlist forces and the entire government took everything they could bring including pretty much all the gold reserves in China at the time and fled to Taiwan.

He set up his government in Taipei, declared martial law and prepared for retaking the mainland. Originally Chiang thought he could retake southern China in 3 years. However, this never happened.

Martial law was lifted in the late 80's.

Chiang's memorial day is a national holiday in Taiwan. His body is not even buried almost three decades after his death. His son, who took over after him is also not buried yet. Their bodies are just stored up because they stated in their wills that they are only to be buried form their original homeland.



So technically, China is still in a civil war which began in the 40's and which have not ended.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by white_raven0]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 05:02 AM
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In fact this is not true. Taiwan is known officially as Republic of China. The whole issue originated in the late 40's when the communists defeated the nationalists in the civil war.

After WWII, the communist government pretty much controlled northern China while the nationalists controlled the South. Chiang thought that the Long River would be a natural divide that Mao can never overcome. However, he was mistaken and was defeated. Then many people, including the nationlist forces and the entire government took everything they could bring including pretty much all the gold reserves in China at the time and fled to Taiwan.

He set up his government in Taipei, declared martial law and prepared for retaking the mainland. Originally Chiang thought he could retake southern China in 3 years. However, this never happened.

Martial law was lifted in the late 80's.

Chiang's memorial day is a national holiday in Taiwan. His body is not even buried almost three decades after his death. His son, who took over after him is also not buried yet. Their bodies are just stored up because they stated in their wills that they are only to be buried form their original homeland.



So technically, China is still in a civil war which began in the 40's and which have not ended.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by white_raven0]
My fault what I should have said is that IF Taiwan declares itself as a independence country. My apologies to suihx I grasp what you were saying. When Taiwan eventually declares independence the civil war will certainly heat up



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