The big bad Bible

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Well at least you're completely cynical.

reply to post by defcon5

First off its pages & pages of rambling diatribe, and its meant to be comedy.
Additionally, I can tell you right off the top that he has a lot of the same issues that many back-slid Roman Catholics have. Yes, he was a Roman Catholic. Roman Catholicism doesn't hold many of the same values as Christianity. For starters it's a “works” based religion, and doctrine wise they claim both “church tradition” (aka tradition from the old roman pagan church) and “the Bible” in equal standing. That's why Romes Doctrines change so frequently, and they have libraries full of doctrinal law, papal decrees, etc. So they can justify their unbiblical actions as being acceptable. This is also why many Christians believe that the Pope is the "Antichrist" (ALL the original protestant faiths taught this including Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and even Issac Newton), and why the RCC itself is the "Beast". In contrast, the Lutheran Church is based solely on the bible and “Luther's small catechism” (which is nothing more then an explanation of what the bible is saying on certain key points such as the “ten commandments”). The small catechism is only about 100 pages long, written in large woodblock lettering, and has not changed since the day Luther wrote it back in the 1500's.

Pages and pages of rambling diatribe that make more sense than the Bible. Now that's saying something.

Yes, it is based on works. But those works are only worthwhile because of the ideas behind them. You say the ideas aren't enough, but those ideas are what give the works meaning. Without the ideas, the works are as meaningless as bending over to pick up a hundred dollar bill that isn't actually there. George Carlin does a very good job of outlining the fallacies of the ideas that make the works worthwhile.

I'm surprised you didn't catch that, given he did everything but explicitly state the point of his points. But I guess that's like explaining the joke - it starts to lose its ingenuity once you realize how completely freakin' obvious it is. I'm still open to further elaboration on your part.

reply to post by Tucket
Hi ..I will reply seeing it was meant for me ...I first believed in the Salvation of My Lord Jesus Christ and became saved ...After awhile my conscience became more aware of God's presence in my life and I started changing my walk in life ,more in line with what Gods word was telling me . After awhile I started doing some good works ..Note my salvation came first before the works .. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ .not by any works I had done before I got saved .....peace

reply to post by Tucket


I heard of of Martin Luther in history class, but i am completely uneducated in his teachings, so i can't make any contributions here.

reply to post by bigman88


Then why are you posting? Posting just to say you got nothing to post.

Back on topic, I can't wait until the day the Bible is officially classified as fiction. Maybe they'll start allowing it in classrooms again under the guise of mythology.

Here u go,, hope this helps,,
in response too,,,





en.wikipedia.org...




its pretty big

they found a name of a Tribe that was Conquered and who's Seed they Cut off,, that name was,,,




see it

here this might be better,,



three guess,,

for those interested,,

belonged too this guy
en.wikipedia.org...

was a floppy disk of his conquests 5 inch,,

reply to post by randyvs


Better than being incredulous I suppose.

reply to post by BobAthome


I don't read Egyptian, so I think it would be very helpful if you didn't force me to guess, even if you give me three chances...

AfterInfinity
reply to post by BobAthome

 

I don't read Egyptian, so I think it would be very helpful if you didn't force me to guess, even if you give me three chances...

ohh here,,





"I don't read Egyptian" u do now

reply to post by BobAthome


Yes, I see it now. Thank you.

I realize now that it was pointless to argue the authenticity of the bible and Christian dogma. It seems that even if solid proof (ie: video footage showing Constantine writing the bible) were shown to Christians. They would still believe. On the other hand, if the official story actually is true...well I'll be damned.

AfterInfinity
The free and unmerited favor...if such is the case, then why is it that we are asked for something in return? It is clearly a bargain, not a gift. If you do not believe, you are not accepted. If you do not abide by the terms and conditions, the deal is off. How does that constitute as free and unmerited?

You've hit on a good point, and one I Don't have an answer to myself.
There are those who believe that even “accepting” or having “faith” is a “work” by itself. That is why some religions are what we call “universalists”. In other words, you don't even have to accept it, everyone just is granted it.

Universalism teaches that because of Gods divine “Love and Mercy” all souls are ultimately reconciled with him. There are verses in the bible that do seem to imply this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it as an eternal, omniscience, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being would have no problem with steering everyone through life to the ultimate goal of their salvation. That is, unless that person has so hardened their heart against it that the Holy Spirit cannot work within them anymore (I believe this is what is considered the “Unforgivable sin”).

Then you have the Apocalypse of Peter, which several of the early church fathers felt should be an accepted book of the bible. After going through descriptions of both Heaven and Hell similar to Dante, it goes on to state that God ultimately rescues everyone from hell. He does not want it to be common knowledge however, as it will only spur people on to greater sins while here on Earth.

Then to make the matter even more complex, you can add in the concept of “divine predestination”:

Romans 9:
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

...Or that no one can come to God without the Holy Spirit working within them. So is “acceptance” really a “work” that the person preforms, or is it one that the Holy Spirit preforms on the person?

This is not a simple question, and not one that I have a clear answer to give you without spending much time researching it more thoroughly. Maybe someone else here has a simpler answer to give you.

So to put it in the words of many a Christian Youth Councilor, this is one you “have to take on faith”.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I went to the site, noticed that the header didn't have anything to do with George Carlin or Religion, looked at the 5-10 page long, unformated block of text that was loaded with question marks, and promptly hit the “back button”.

I like Carlin as much as the next guy, but he is comedian, and his stuff is meant to be comedy not reality. Comedy doesn’t have to have a basis in reality, it only has to “sound” enough like it does to make it funny.

But...
If you want to cherry-pick out the specific questions that you want answered, and re-post them to me here, I'll answer them for you.

reply to post by defcon5

I went to the site, noticed that the header didn't have anything to do with George Carlin or Religion, looked at the 5-10 page long, unformated block of text that was loaded with question marks, and promptly hit the “back button”.

Then you can have no argument against it.

I like Carlin as much as the next guy, but he is comedian, and his stuff is meant to be comedy not reality. Comedy doesn’t have to have a basis in reality, it only has to “sound” enough like it does to make it funny.

You didn't read any of it. Again, you cannot have an argument against something you have not read.

But...
If you want to cherry-pick out the specific questions that you want answered, and re-post them to me here, I'll answer them for you.

Certainly! Just not right now.

reply to post by defcon5


Comparing infinity and infinity, with a white lie and murder is like comparing apples to oranges. One is a finite sin, the other has infinite ramifications.

Likewise, it depends on what two infinities you are comparing.

The infinite space between the integers 1 and 2 is, by nature, less than, the infinite space between integers 1 and the remainder of the endless number line. The first (1-2) is, no matter what, always going to be less than, or equal to, 1. The latter (1...) will, no matter what, always be infinitely greater than 1.

They are both infinite, yes, but they are not equal.

Similarly, telling a lie which causes temporary confusion/pain, and murdering someone, which leaves an infinite emptiness in the lives of family, friends, communities, etc. Those are also two different things.

As I said, one if finite, it's cause and effect having an obvious beginning and end (telling a white lie), the other has infinite ramifications, effecting the entire future of a family/species (killing someone).

If God cannot see the difference in effect between a temporary evil (a white life), and a permanent evil (murder), then it is still a fault of God, and not man.

Man recognizes that the severity of a white lie, and the severity of murder are different. Which is why murdering someone results in a heavier punishment then saying you're wearing a red t-shirt, when, in fact, it is blue.

As for doctrine, while it may be entirely Biblical, there are denominations which believe your deeds and actions matter, which disagrees with Martin Luther's philosophy. I don't really care either way (as I put not faith in Christian doctrine of any kind). I just wanted to point out that, under Luther's philosophy, your are not accountable for your worldly actions, because faith, not deed, is all that God cares about.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by randyvs


Are all Christians so judgmental and full of condescension?
No wonder your little death-cult get's rallied against so often.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

Lutheran theology has a "get out of any argument" card that immediately negates any reasonable insights you may have... [snip] ...At least to Lutherans, your thoughts, however rational, are the devil's work, my friend.

That seems to be the approach of many denominations of Christian philosophy. I don't mind though. The debate and discussion is, to me, entertaining. Whether or not the other possesses the ability, or willingness, to reasonable look at their beliefs, in the end, does not matter to me.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by bigman88

You really think that God will admit you into the heavenly realm despite someone CONTINUING to perform evil acts, despite their belief and faith in him?

according to Lutheran doctrine, yes. Your deeds and actions do not matter. According to Martin Luther all the evil you do is irrelevant to God. All that God is interested in is whether or not you believe in Him, and have faith that He is the true God.

God is very clear on that, and we are judged by both faith and deed also. You will still receive your just punishment for your evil; just because you pray to God does not mean your prayer will elicit any blessings from the Lord.

Then your stance is that Martin Luther's brand of Christianity is wrong?

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Are all Christians so judgmental and full of condescension?

No, I'm the only one.

No wonder your little death-cult get's rallied against so often.

But does that matter ?