Who has a problem feeding the less fortunate??? I want to know.

OccamsRazor04

Here's a source.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Feel free to argue with Zaphod that the AirForce has way more money than it needs.

Almost 60% of the TOTAL budget is Medicare/Medicaid and social security, labor, and unemployment.


There is a breakdown.

According to your source, quite a lot of money is going to the military.
Did you even read it?
Military spending is not by any means LOW.

I specifically asked, compared to what?
You go on about things having to be offed.
If I have a 10 million dollar plot of land and end up having to sell 1 million of it off, would you say my land holdings are suffering?

OccamsRazor04


That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. The fact is our budget is not all in our military. People think that. People have brought it up on this thread. MOST of our money goes into social spending.

Who said that in this thread?
I am not sure if you are a liar or just cannot read.

OccamsRazor04
How about we compare apples to apples. The US is not even the top spending in the military, and we are not spending much more than other countries. This graph is 2010. 2013 spending went down about 10% I think.

Wrabbit actually supplied sources that say you are wrong.
Where are your sources?

1104light

OccamsRazor04

Here's a source.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Feel free to argue with Zaphod that the AirForce has way more money than it needs.

Almost 60% of the TOTAL budget is Medicare/Medicaid and social security, labor, and unemployment.


There is a breakdown.

According to your source, quite a lot of money is going to the military.
Did you even read it?
Military spending is not by any means LOW.

It's very low compared to where we need it to maintain readiness. You have no idea what is going on in the military, go read the aviation forum Zaphod has numerous posts describing different things, such as our pilots losing certification so that NO ONE will be certified on certain aircraft.

I specifically asked, compared to what?
You go on about things having to be offed.
If I have a 10 million dollar plot of land and end up having to sell 1 million of it off, would you say my land holdings are suffering?

If you paid $5 million for it then I would say without a doubt. America is much more than $4 million in debt. MOST of our spending is social spending. We are broke. VERY broke. We can not afford to care for our own citizens. we have no money to feed the world. Those are all facts. Dispute them if you will. Where would you like the money to come from? Will it be from the trillions in debt we are adding this year?

Without the jobs that the MIC provides, wouldn't there be a lot more hungry people? How many jobs would that be? And how many more unemployed? Seems we've placed ourselves into a corner in a way and given up our power somehow. Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't this a catch-22?

As for the concept of being against feeding people, any people for any reason, or making a political or divisive issue out of it, especially when you are sitting in a position of relative (and temporary) power and your own belly is fat, that's just fundamentally wrong...and inhuman.

1104light

OccamsRazor04
How about we compare apples to apples. The US is not even the top spending in the military, and we are not spending much more than other countries. This graph is 2010. 2013 spending went down about 10% I think.

Wrabbit actually supplied sources that say you are wrong.
Where are your sources?

No, he compared apples to oranges. I supplied a source that is apples to apples, that compares military spending per GDP. Saudi Arabia is far and away the largest spender. America is #2, with Russia not far behind. That was also in 2010, before Russia kicked up military spending and the US had the sequester gutting out military spending. Maybe you should troll less and read more. The source was posted by me.

menneni
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Please take a minute and think about your post.

You are talking about feeding the dying children. Then you go to talk about TAX-dollars? Are you frigging serious? Newsflash (idiot), those tax dollars are none of your concern. You should take your head out of analandand you could see that too. Sweet, isn't it?

I can tell you right on, you put that kind of attitude to my face IRL, i go ballistic. Your post was overloaded with stupidity.

Sorry to break you the truth. But you will get over this, in time.

So then you are offering to personally finance the feeding of every child in the world? You won't? Why not .. it's the children? You can't afford that you say? Seems like we are both saying the same thing only you want to be self righteous and pretend you are better while saying the exact same thing I am. Except I am being logical and you are a hypocrite.

Wouldn't the government/taxpayer/people be better off with an expanded Focus Hope program rather than an EBT card.

They used to give out actual food based on the number of people in the house. Food with actual nutritional value. That is gone now, except for a minimal amount still given to seniors in some areas.

Its hard to commit fraud with canned goods I would think and the "poor kids" would at least be getting fed that way.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

So you think America should feed every child in China? Africa? Every child around the world? No? Why not? Why are they less deserving?

You have a point there.. Most sensible thing I have seen come out your mouth in this forum....No one should go hungry. There is enough food for everyone. Al we have is a distribution problem.

bout One Week of US Military Spending Would Wipe Out World Hunger

truth11.com...

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


What are you even talking about?? The data isn't right because it's 2010? Really?! Yes.. let's do compare "apples to apples". The irony of how clear it is that you didn't even open the source article I linked is ..well... I'll let the title speak for itself here.

Comparing Defense Budgets, Apples to Apples

I can't say it's very often that not opening a source you're replying to is quite THAT obvious..but OUCH... If you had opened it, you'd also notice the chart right above those pie graphs I showed? DOES show 2012 and 2013. It shows China in the range of 100 Billion as the next closest nation in the world and the US still over 600 Billion. (687 Billion in one recent figure I'd seen for 2013..but sequestration is playing with the total just a bit).

However... the facts on this are very clear and just plain raw numbers for anyone to see.

Now in terms of Social Spending? Why.. Yes.. In fact, Social spending IS killing us. Would you like to focus on what PART is killing us? It sure IS NOT food support programs. Let's see what IS tho...since it's a point of contention here.



Yes... There is some very definite and back breaking social spending going on there.... How old are you? Not close to collecting Social Security are you? That would be helping to crash our nation given how Congress has run it as a giant Ponzi scheme.



Then of course, we have the medical disaster which has only gotten worse with higher costs since I made these graphic charts last year for my budget thread. Obamacare or the PPACA, is shifting costs but the costs are still rising well ahead of inflation. Indeed.. There is social spending breaking our backs alright. Food for the poor is a fractional % of the federal budget though. People need to keep perspective before taking food off others people's plates in some crusade so find the % who fraud the system.

This is all over pennies on the dollars for what is spending us into total ruin....and by that? Another outstanding distraction to keep people from being focused on the BIG numbers while we fight each other, as planned, as scheduled.

~Lucidity
Without the jobs that the MIC provides, wouldn't there be a lot more hungry people? How many jobs would that be? And how many more unemployed? Seems we've placed ourselves into a corner in a way and given up our power somehow. Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't this a catch-22?

As for the concept of being against feeding people, any people for any reason, or making a political or divisive issue out of it, especially when you are sitting in a position of relative (and temporary) power and your own belly is fat, that's just fundamentally wrong...and inhuman.

edit on 9/22/2013 by ~Lucidity because: grammar OCD

It's not a question of being for against people being fed. That is simply a red herring. It's a question of whether we can afford to feed people. We can't. We are trillions in debt because we cant afford to take care of ourselves. We have no money. We can't feed the world and it has nothing to do with whether it would be great if we could.

As far as the rest of your post goes it simply proves my position correct. We are broke. We can NOT afford to spend more. If and when we get spending under control this is something that can be looked at. Right now we can't feed the world, soon we won't be able to feed ourselves if things don't change.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What are you even talking about?? The data isn't right because it's 2010?

You clearly did not go to the link I provided.
steadfastfinances.com... .gif
SA is 11% GDP
US is 4.7% GDP
RUS is 2.9%

This is from 2010.

As of 2013 US and RUS are both TIED for #2 at 4.4% GDP. SA is #1 at 8.9% GDP in 2013.

I don't want ANY ONE to go hungry! No one. We become inhuman if we cannot look upon another human and feed them. I cannot ever let a person go hungry. Not even an animal. That said,

We are reaching a time where many people will have to learn how to make it on their own without the help of TANF, SNAP, and other programs. This is all becoming a reality. My cousin called me the other day, to inform me that there will be no head start program in her town because it was cut. She immediately said "What about all of these children who depend upon the breakfast and lunch portion of that day?" These cuts have been happening, and they will continue to happen.

We must, I cannot even emphasize this enough, we must become independent, somehow. Some way. I am doing it.

When my boyfriend and I lost our jobs last winter, we both sat in our tiny apartment and cried that night, with fear and worry. It really hit us hard. I felt horrible having to go file for SNAP the following week. After two months on SNAP and furiously looking for jobs, we both decided, enough. I mean, ENOUGH. I don't want to be dependent. I just cannot go down that road. I see so many people who are dependent on the GOVT. And the welfare programs are going to go away. I'm sorry, it just is. It will eventually be gone. People must face this fact.

My boyfriend and I started to look for any job we could do. Errands for elderly, yard work, picking up trash, farm hands, I took in laundry, made jewelry, etc. We both have college degrees, and yes we both felt really small, in all of these tasks we were taking on, but my grandpa told me once, no job is too small, when the work is good and honest. We got off SNAP, which felt good. We are not rich, we are not middle class, we're not living in poverty. We eat well, we are paying our bills, and no, we do not have much but we are doing fine.

In the mean time, we met many people, and began making new friends, and started a network of trading and bartering. My 68 year old neighbor and I planted a garden together, and I did a lot of the work for her because she's not well. In return, she taught me how to can, and we have a lot of veggies put up for the winter.

In order for many people to get off the GOVT help, they will have to become inventive, they will have to become strong. They will have to keep plugging away, and fighting that uphill battle. I am not trying to preach, I'm just stating that reality is going to hit a lot of people really hard when things collapse.

I don't think a lot of people, especially our youth know how to cook or do much for themselves. Things are going to change and we will have to change with it. Like it or not.

reply to post by sonnny1


I get that! I understand how those who have 3 thousand bucks to buy a pair of "red bottom shoes" then walk around in them.. spouting off how much they care about the "homeless" or "hungry". I GET what you are saying...I think.... I know NONE of It makes sense!!

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Well, your link there is broken and I wasn't going to pile on by attacking the use of GDP % to the apparent exclusion of what the dollars literally represent in buying power and the difference on that level.

However, we can go with GDP. That works fine for me. Let do use GDP.

US Defense Spending for 2013

We can get into the White House/OMB reports that site bases it's data from...but it's been right that I've seen so far. Leaving off what the VA runs, it shows 660 Billion dollars for US defense spending in 2013.

Now.. About that GDP.... Indeed...

190 Nations of the world, ranked by Annual GDP

According to that list, if the Pentagon was it's own nation? It would displace Switzerland as #19 for the largest national GDP's on Earth. 19...out of 190. Now anyone who says the US military is under-funded is flat out being disingenuous. I can't see any other way of that being explained when the numbers are clear, publicly available, and as stark as these are for contrast.

...or to put it another way, U.S. Defense spending, by itself, is above the total gross domestic product of 171 other nations we share this planet with. Now what is wrong with THIS picture?

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Well, your link there is broken and I wasn't going to pile on by attacking the use of GDP % to the apparent exclusion of what the dollars literally represent in buying power and the difference on that level.

However, we can go with GDP. That works fine for me. Let do use GDP.

US Defense Spending for 2013

We can get into the White House/OMB reports that site bases it's data from...but it's been right that I've seen so far. Leaving off what the VA runs, it shows 660 Billion dollars for US defense spending in 2013.

Now.. About that GDP.... Indeed...

190 Nations of the world, ranked by Annual GDP

According to that list, if the Pentagon was it's own nation? It would displace Switzerland as #19 for the largest national GDP's on Earth. 19...out of 190. Now anyone who says the US military is under-funded is flat out being disingenuous. I can't see any other way of that being explained when the numbers are clear, publicly available, and as stark as these are for contrast.

...or to put it another way, U.S. Defense spending, by itself, is above the total gross domestic product of 171 other nations we share this planet with. Now what is wrong with THIS picture?

edit on 22-9-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I think you simply don't have an understanding of what happens when you do not keep your military up to date. We are spending equal money as Russia per GDP, while maintaining a world spanning military. So unless you advocate us abandoning all our military bases, getting rid of the carriers, and pulling back to a pure defensive military with no capabilities to project our power anywhere in the world (which I am sure you can figure out would have SERIOUS repurcussions), we need to spend MORE per GDP than a nation that doesn't do that. Right now we are not. This is going to lead to training being put on hold. Fleets of aircraft disbanded. Repairs unfinished. Modernization left undone, and quite a bit more.

Now back on topic, cut military spending to 0% and we STILL have no money to feed people.

Here is the GDP spending for 2013.
en.wikipedia.org...

I hate wiki but I am too busy to find another source at the moment. Feel free to correct me if that is inaccurate information.

I recently learned the new definition of illegal. I has an arson fire and hat the person who set it clearly on tape. The police told me they couldn't do anything because they didn't witness the crime. I told him I won't bother calling again and told him I have a backhoe

mikell
I recently learned the new definition of illegal. I has an arson fire and hat the person who set it clearly on tape. The police told me they couldn't do anything because they didn't witness the crime. I told him I won't bother calling again and told him I have a backhoe

That is patently false. Police basically never witness crimes yet can and do make many arrests. I would go higher up the food chain. If you know the person you should also sue them.