Molten-air battery's storage capacity among the highest of any battery type ! New discovery

I for one am pleased to see the research going into the science of energy storage ie Batteries!

Phys.org) —Researchers have demonstrated a new class of high-energy battery, called a "molten-air battery," that has one of the highest storage capacities of any battery type to date. Unlike some other high-energy batteries, the molten-air battery has the advantage of being rechargeable. Although the molten electrolyte currently requires high-temperature operation, the battery is so new that the researchers hope that experimenting with different molten compositions and other characteristics will make molten-air batteries strong competitors in electric vehicles and for storing energy for the electric grid.

"This is the first time that a rechargeable molten-air battery has been demonstrated," Licht told Phys.org. "There have been rechargeable batteries that use molten electrolytes, but not air. For example, molten-sulfur batteries have been widely studied for electric car and grid applications. However, sulfur is twice as massive as oxygen (per electron stored) and its mass needs to be carried as part of the battery (whereas air is freely available). The molten-air batteries are the first rechargeable batteries to use a molten salt to store energy using 'free' oxygen from the air and multi-electron storage molecules."

phys.org...

reply to post by 727Sky

Pretty cool, a few steps in the right direction for sure. Better, cheaper and rechargeable but, not an exponential leap yet which is what we need.

I woud love to have a molten air battery in my car to let me go hundreds of miles. I just hope if I get into an accedent molten air will not spew over everyone.

reply to post by 727Sky

Being the batteries you mention are for electric vehicles. When these cars become lower in resale value as they get older. Could they be used / converted as an electric generator? In place of power for wheel turning, power for house/s in power outage or remote spots?

I have been wondering if there is any battery,capacitor homeowners could use for mass storage of electricity that could be utilized in power outage. Can power even be saved to be used again for high wattage items (heaters etc)?

reply to post by Johnathanandheather

Current battery technology is not very good for this application. You can run a heater from batteries, but given the amount of batteries you'd need it's not very practical to do it for long.

If you have a farm in the countryside and can build your own water tower, you could pump water up to the water tower, then harness power of the falling water with miniaturized versions of the generators used for hydroelectric dams.

The water tower will probably outlast many batteries too.

If you can't build a water tower, there are batteries in development that can run heaters more economically than existing batteries, like this:

Breakthrough in electricity storage: New large and powerful redox flow battery

Johnathanandheather
reply to post by 727Sky

 

Being the batteries you mention are for electric vehicles. When these cars become lower in resale value as they get older. Could they be used / converted as an electric generator? In place of power for wheel turning, power for house/s in power outage or remote spots?

I have been wondering if there is any battery,capacitor homeowners could use for mass storage of electricity that could be utilized in power outage. Can power even be saved to be used again for high wattage items (heaters etc)?

These are still batteries we are talking about. No matter how good they are, they do not 'generate' power.

Instead, they store energy and do so pretty terribly at that so, they always have loss. In stationary applications, I would have to recommend flywheels and electrolysers to store energy if you have an intermittent (or simply hyper-productive) energy source that isn't 24/7.

Arbitrageur
reply to post by Johnathanandheather

 

Current battery technology is not very good for this application. You can run a heater from batteries, but given the amount of batteries you'd need it's not very practical to do it for long.

If you have a farm in the countryside and can build your own water tower, you could pump water up to the water tower, then harness power of the falling water with miniaturized versions of the generators used for hydroelectric dams.

The water tower will probably outlast many batteries too.

If you can't build a water tower, there are batteries in development that can run heaters more economically than existing batteries, like this:

Breakthrough in electricity storage: New large and powerful redox flow battery

It seems to me that it would take as much energy to pump the water up the tower as you would ever get out of harnessing the energy of it falling. Perpetual motion isn't possible as far as I know.

reply to post by 727Sky


Here I was hoping for new AA's so my remote doesn't die....

Oh well, I am sure nuclear batteries are right around the corner...You know, clean energy and all.....(rolling eyes emote)

Gu1tarJohn

Arbitrageur
reply to post by Johnathanandheather

 

Current battery technology is not very good for this application. You can run a heater from batteries, but given the amount of batteries you'd need it's not very practical to do it for long.

If you have a farm in the countryside and can build your own water tower, you could pump water up to the water tower, then harness power of the falling water with miniaturized versions of the generators used for hydroelectric dams.

The water tower will probably outlast many batteries too.

If you can't build a water tower, there are batteries in development that can run heaters more economically than existing batteries, like this:

Breakthrough in electricity storage: New large and powerful redox flow battery

It seems to me that it would take as much energy to pump the water up the tower as you would ever get out of harnessing the energy of it falling. Perpetual motion isn't possible as far as I know.

While you are correct, I think the poster was talking about a way to store energy during a power outage, not outright generate power. Meaning, when the power is up, they pump a large quantity of water into a tower, and then if there is a power outage they run the water through a small turbine to generate power.

Probably wouldn't work terribly well though, the amount of water you would need would be massive. One of those massive water towers that some cities use would probably be depleted rather quickly, not to mention flooding an area where you dump the water. To use a small amount of water, you would need a huge reserve of water to create high pressure, to allow using a small amount of water. Or you can use larger amount of water at lower pressure to run a water wheel type device.

For the cost of the water storage idea, you could probably buy several large propane tanks, and several propane generators, that would give you far more power at once, and do it for longer.

Propane is really one of the best ways to power your home off grid, as far as cost vs the amount of energy you can use, and considering that propane can be stored incredibly longer than diesel or gasoline, and be used for many other things such as filling smaller propane tanks for powering propane powered vehicles, stoves, heaters, lights, etc.

Cool but i'm not holding my breadth.

Currently the best battery for electric applications is the LiFePo4 or "Lithium Iron Phosphate" battery.

Two years ago I read an article about how scientists discovered a way to extract lithium from sea water much cheaper than mining for it now. They said this would make LiFePo4 batteries cheap and avalable to the masses all over the world. I'm still waiting to hear more news on this.

There is also the lithium-polysulfide flow battery which is new promising technology www.renewableenergyworld.com...

anf the " New lithium-ion battery design that’s 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster" www.extremetech.com...

And many others !!! There are Tons of new battery designs that are supposed to be super powerful - BUT, we will never see any of this technology it seems.

James1982

Gu1tarJohn

Arbitrageur
reply to post by Johnathanandheather

 

Current battery technology is not very good for this application. You can run a heater from batteries, but given the amount of batteries you'd need it's not very practical to do it for long.

If you have a farm in the countryside and can build your own water tower, you could pump water up to the water tower, then harness power of the falling water with miniaturized versions of the generators used for hydroelectric dams.

The water tower will probably outlast many batteries too.

If you can't build a water tower, there are batteries in development that can run heaters more economically than existing batteries, like this:

Breakthrough in electricity storage: New large and powerful redox flow battery

It seems to me that it would take as much energy to pump the water up the tower as you would ever get out of harnessing the energy of it falling. Perpetual motion isn't possible as far as I know.

While you are correct, I think the poster was talking about a way to store energy during a power outage, not outright generate power. Meaning, when the power is up, they pump a large quantity of water into a tower, and then if there is a power outage they run the water through a small turbine to generate power.

Probably wouldn't work terribly well though, the amount of water you would need would be massive. One of those massive water towers that some cities use would probably be depleted rather quickly, not to mention flooding an area where you dump the water. To use a small amount of water, you would need a huge reserve of water to create high pressure, to allow using a small amount of water. Or you can use larger amount of water at lower pressure to run a water wheel type device.

For the cost of the water storage idea, you could probably buy several large propane tanks, and several propane generators, that would give you far more power at once, and do it for longer.

Propane is really one of the best ways to power your home off grid, as far as cost vs the amount of energy you can use, and considering that propane can be stored incredibly longer than diesel or gasoline, and be used for many other things such as filling smaller propane tanks for powering propane powered vehicles, stoves, heaters, lights, etc.

I can see the storage idea. I'm with you - don't think I would work so well. Propane is a good idea, and solar/wind to augment it would be good because you could use it to lessen the amount of propane you had to use when you need to use the propane, therefore making it last longer.

reply to post by Gu1tarJohn


I would use a wind pump to pump the water up to the tower tank, and, any energy left over pumping the water would be used to run a small turbine, that would help to charge the storage batteries.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Batteries have come a LONG way in the last 10 years or so. I have an RC vehicle that weighs around 3-4 pounds and uses a 3-cell LiPo (Lithium Polymer) battery and it tops out around 60MPH (real MPH) and gets to that top speed in around 2 seconds. Had to add 6 ounces of lead weight to the nose to keep the front tires on the ground. That was impossible for electric RC vehicles not many years ago. Between better batteries and brushless motors, the available HP has come WAY up.

We would all be using solar panels and never need the grid if battery's were perfect containers for energy, with no loss over time and a 100% conversion rate.

EDIT: also affordable, no good to anyone if its a million bucks a watt stored