Republican Conservative Anti-Human Agenda takes Hold

OneManArmy


I think its a matter of balance. Yes Im all for personal responsibility. But at the same time, I would like to look out for the elderly, the recently unemployed, the disabled, the injured war veterans, the orphaned and abandoned children. Its a bit hard for them to be as "personally responsible" as the able.
But they are the ones that inevitably suffer as a result of the selfish attitudes of those that cry personal responsibility to remove themselves from the suffering of others, and that is truly sad.

I would like to look out for. . . .

Not government.

We, as a culture, have abdicated our responsibility to look out for those that can't take care of themselves. Government has jumped into the role as care giver with wild abandon in order to seize more power.

And we, as a culture, have ceded our own responsibility.

beezzer

OneManArmy


I think its a matter of balance. Yes Im all for personal responsibility. But at the same time, I would like to look out for the elderly, the recently unemployed, the disabled, the injured war veterans, the orphaned and abandoned children. Its a bit hard for them to be as "personally responsible" as the able.
But they are the ones that inevitably suffer as a result of the selfish attitudes of those that cry personal responsibility to remove themselves from the suffering of others, and that is truly sad.

I would like to look out for. . . .

Not government.

We, as a culture, have abdicated our responsibility to look out for those that can't take care of themselves. Government has jumped into the role as care giver with wild abandon in order to seize more power.

And we, as a culture, have ceded our own responsibility.

Yes indeed, a very good point, but at the same time I dont see anyone rushing to help them.
But I do see people rushing to avoid helping them.

We are where we are, we cannot just abandon those that have become dependent on the state.

beezzer

OneManArmy


I think its a matter of balance. Yes Im all for personal responsibility. But at the same time, I would like to look out for the elderly, the recently unemployed, the disabled, the injured war veterans, the orphaned and abandoned children. Its a bit hard for them to be as "personally responsible" as the able.
But they are the ones that inevitably suffer as a result of the selfish attitudes of those that cry personal responsibility to remove themselves from the suffering of others, and that is truly sad.

I would like to look out for. . . .

Not government.

We, as a culture, have abdicated our responsibility to look out for those that can't take care of themselves. Government has jumped into the role as care giver with wild abandon in order to seize more power.

And we, as a culture, have ceded our own responsibility.

I understand what both of you are saying but it is again drifting from what this bill is actually about.

It has nothing to do with healthcare financing. It is about government mandated health insurance products that in no way resemble insurance. Not meaning to be rude but the fact that the MSM has so successfully made people unaware of what the issue was even about is frightening. The issue is about a broken insurance model that never worked from the get go.

This is the clip from Sicko that I thought was really awesome (that is until he went on to support the same health insurance model that he slammed in this clip. Smart guy, that Michael Moore.)



Healthcare does not equal health insurance.

OrphanApology


Healthcare does not equal health insurance.

Im sorry for my misunderstanding, things work completely differently here in the UK due to the national health service.

OneManArmy

OrphanApology


Healthcare does not equal health insurance.

Im sorry for my misunderstanding, things work completely differently here in the UK due to the national health service.

No problem, it's a deliberate confusion set in place by lawmakers and media on both the blue and red lines. Very few people here even understand what the argument is even about because the politicians/media deliberately make it seem about something else.

Looks like the ball is in the Senate's court now. Which will they think is more important? Funding the government, or protecting the profits of the insurance companies that pad their bank accounts?

Maybe they can take a tip from Ms. Pelosi; pass the bill and see what happens. After a year, tally up all the death certificates that list "Lack of Obamacare" as the cause of death.

TDawgRex
reply to post by seeker1963

 

This thread reminds me of the "Paid Government shill" thread a couple days back.

All I really see is a child that is pissed because they are not getting their way. Welcome to the real world.

Did ya see Pelosi's remark today that "This is a wolf in wolves clothing."?

It's been funny listening to all the whining today.

Sounds like you're describing republicans in Congress! They've been stamping their feet since ACA passed.

Even to the tune of 42x1.5 million, ($63,000,000). Such an austere party!

OneManArmy


We are where we are, we cannot just abandon those that have become dependent on the state.

Truth.

The “government” is supposed to be WE THE PEOPLE.
WE THE PEOPLE supposed to take care of each other through a representative government of compassion and care for ALL in this great country.

The constitution says that the government takes care of the General welfare of the country.

The human race has evolved to a condition where organized health care is or should be free for all and not subject to economic vagaries where people will in this industrialized modern society die because they can’t afford health care.

Willtell
The “government” is supposed to be WE THE PEOPLE.
WE THE PEOPLE supposed to take care of each other through a representative government of compassion and care for ALL in this great country.

The constitution says that the government takes care of the General welfare of the country.

The human race has evolved to a condition where organized health care is or should be free for all and not subject to economic vagaries where people will in this industrialized modern society die because they can’t afford health care.

What does that have to do with managed care insurance products mandated by the federal government?

reply to post by OrphanApology


The mechanism for health care—has evolved in USA—to be administered through insurance because of the economic reality of the health care system.

That’s why only millionaires and billionaires can only pay for health care out of their pockets and don’t have to have insurance.

The best solution was the public option or single payer like Canada where everyone would have gotten covered equally.

But Obama is a corporate democrat just a little better than the anti-human republicans and therefore went for an Insurance based system, that BTW, I don’t like either. But what is the alternative to the old system? These stupid and antihuman politicians won’t do the right thing and bring America along with all civilized societies and give cheap universal care to all Free.

Evil right blah blah blah is right.

Guess some people think throwing someone else's money at the 'less fortunate' means they care about others.

Not really.

Just shows how low some people will go to 'dehumanize' the right in this country.

Yeah it is like that. It is also since the 'great society' began that more people are dependent upon government and it's 'benevolence' than ever before in this entire countries history.

Of course 'food stamps' is nothing more than corporate WELFARE. So the 'poor' can go and line corporate pockets. and the JP MORGAN's who rake in billions off those EBT's.

Pat on the back for a job well done. Rinse and Repeat demagoguery.

neo96
It is also since the 'great society' began that more people are dependent upon government and it's 'benevolence' than ever before in this entire countries history.

People need to quit thinking Government is here to make there lives good. Its a lie. Its been built to snare folks into a false sense of security.

Well said Neo.

Willtell
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

The mechanism for health care—has evolved in USA—to be administered through insurance because of the economic reality of the health care system.

That’s why only millionaires and billionaires can only pay for health care out of their pockets and don’t have to have insurance.

The best solution was the public option or single payer like Canada where everyone would have gotten covered equally.

But Obama is a corporate democrat just a little better than the anti-human republicans and therefore went for an Insurance based system, that BTW, I don’t like either. But what is the alternative to the old system? These stupid and antihuman politicians won’t do the right thing and bring America along with all civilized societies and give cheap universal care to all Free.

You don't know what you're talking about. I do as this is what I research regularly and write about. I'd recommend reading the article that I posted a link to. It's a great crash course in the reality of what the health insurance debate is about. I also posted a very rudimentary outline of the issue as well.

They didn't go for the health maintenance organization "insurance" scheme out of necessity. They went for a convoluted insurance product (that doesn't even resemble traditional insurance) to make money at the cost of good healthcare.

reply to post by Willtell

The National Socialist German Workers Party originally stood for partial collectivism and included the following demands (among others):

“Every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.”
“All unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.”
“Total confiscation of all war profits.”
“Nationalization of all trusts.”
“Profit-sharing in large industries.”
“Increase in old-age pensions.”
“Communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople.”
“A law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose.”
“The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.”
“Usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.”
“The State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people.”
“Specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.”
“COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD.”

Do any of these sacrosanct principals sound familiar to you?

The American healthcare system is absolute crap unlessyour rich.

BUT

Obamacare is even crapper.

It liked they picked the most expensive mosr inefficiant way to solve the health care problem!

reply to post by greencmp


First; NAZI's? Really? We're only on page two.
Second; I don't think you really want to start this argument when that same list contains:

We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press.

Do you listen to the mainstream media? They just parrot whatever the administration tells them to!

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.

How many czars has Obama appointed so far? Thirty eight!

The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically.

No more welfare!

Third; Are you trying to tell me that FDR was a NAZI?

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.

That sounds a lot like, "Every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood."

crazyewok
The American healthcare system is absolute crap unlessyour rich.

BUT

Obamacare is even crapper.

It liked they picked the most expensive mosr inefficiant way to solve the health care problem!

BRILLIANT!

The healthcare system in America is costly. So what did the government do?

Create a system that catered to the high cost.

Instead of lowering the costs so it could be affordable for all.

Bloody fracking brilliant.

links234
reply to post by greencmp

 

First; NAZI's? Really? We're only on page two.
Second; I don't think you really want to start this argument when that same list contains:

We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press.

Do you listen to the mainstream media? They just parrot whatever the administration tells them to!

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.

How many czars has Obama appointed so far? Thirty eight!

The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically.

No more welfare!

Third; Are you trying to tell me that FDR was a NAZI?

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.

That sounds a lot like, "Every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood."

Please do correct me if I am wrong here but, you sound like this list isn't socialist enough for you. If you are a communist, we can have a different discussion.

I was putting this forth because I hear most of these points being thrown around as if they are laudable goals for our society and should be manifest as policy and law in our government.

In short, I am trying to shock a progressive out of the illusion that the ideology they are putting forth is somehow the opposite of the NAZIs, it is not.

We all know how much animosity there was between communists and national socialists but, both of you should hate me equally as an individualist. Plenty of vitriol to go around but, before we start, please clarify so we know what we are arguing against.

Consider my post an attack on progressives by comparing them to national socialists.

Thanks!

All this talk about health care being communist or socialist is absurd.

I imagine having a community police force or fire department paid by out taxes is communism.

Or when the gov intervenes and saves people in a flood or hurricane is communism

Or our bridges, tunnels you use is communism.

Just add universal health care TO THE MIX

Use your heads and stop parroting dogma

Or move to the woods and live on your own

Just when your log cabin burns down don't call the fire department

Or you get sick don't rely on GOVERNMENT 911 service

When you're robbed don't call the police

Get your own fire department, ARMY, 911 service, police department.

Your own bridges, tunnels and roads