France bans children's beauty contests in bid to stop the 'hyper-sexualisation' of youngsters.

What will your communities do when nobody is left from the central government to enforce these laws and no effort has been put into educating and strengthening the community capacity to handle their differences?

In FRance, the issue is not related to ambition and pushing kids hard- that is culturally accepted- but in terms of education.

The issue is the stereotype of the american female, that is shown in the media as a bleached blond, super makeup- hidden , silicone pumped, high heel wearing dumbass, whose only goal in life was to attract a man that will keep her and allow her to spend her days doing nothing which might involve effort or braincells.

They do not want to endorse (collectively) the idea that a females value lies in her ability to be pleasing to the eye and ability to attract men.

Values are instilled early in age.

reply to post by Bluesma

According the OP article... France has a long history of child beauty pageants which would have been before before modern American influence. The Mini-miss pageants aren't American imports.

Furthermore... it was Americans who were repeatedly shocked just a few decades ago by the risque nature of *French* fashion for both women and girls. It was considered "liberating" for women to adopt French customs. What you are seeing happening in America is the result of a culture which was traditionally hyper repressed suddenly being released with no semblance of balance.

But the 197 to 146 vote in the Senate was a shock in a country where there is a long history of beauty pageants, and where lingerie is sold to girls as young as 6.

www.missfrancophonie.org...
This shows examples from 1989 and 1990. Long before Toddlers and Tiaras and Honey Boo Boo. 23+ years ago. You are free to try to to perhaps suggest it wasn't going on before... but... eh. This was a two minute google search... much less a thorough investigation into the true history of French approach to child fashion and modelling.

But sure... keep blaming Americans.

reply to post by AlliumIslelily

and we had brooke shields doing full frontal nudity in the movie, "pretty baby" when she was 12 years old. all countries do stupid and idiotic things when it comes to children. but now, you can not even buy that movie legally in it's original form because of that scene. i do not recall france having 13 year old playboy models. if that occurred, it still does not make them hypocrites. it means that they have have evolved and grown.

Well, this is my first post in quite some time......about 8 months or so I think.

I can see points made by both sides of the discussion. On one hand I want to say good on France I am proud that they are taking a stand regarding those absurdly idiotic shows, and I wish others would follow suit. "Good on France".....saying those words is not something I could see coming, but there it is LOL (just kidding btw).

On the other hand, I also agree that, unfortunately a "ban" does not mean a whole hell of a lot. It does not address the problem that is really to blame in that the real problem is with society. I find those shows to be quite loathsome personally, and the way the parents push and pressure the children makes me want to slap some sense into them. They are in my humble opinion unfit and unworthy to have the title of parent. Children grow up too soon as is, thanks to the music industry sexualizing Britney Spears and others like her during their early and mid teens. These shows are the evolution of the monster that they created, and will continue to evolve and get more insane and asinine until people take a stand and say "enough!". These "parents" don't stop to consider the harm they cause to their children, because they do not see past the dollar signs and fame associated with being on T.V. and that is very sad and makes me quite angry.

A ban is something, at least it is a start, and is better than doing nothing or encouraging it. I am not some bible thumping freak, and I personally am quite open when it comes to sexuality and have no qualms about pornography and believe that prostitution should be legal for consenting adults (somewhat offtopic, but I believe it shows that I am not just some prissy conservative puritan type). There is a line however and these shows cross that line and should be seen for what they are, exploitation pure and simple.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77

Just to note... the ban isn't focused on the shows or certain types of dress. It's on all pageants for girls under 16 regardless of their dress standards.

What the shows have done though, and some might argue it is a "service" and may even be some of the *motive* of the show creators... is get the subject matter that has been going on for longer than TV has even existed in open public view. So discussions like this can happen rather than everyone turning a blind eye.

blackthorne
and we had brooke shields doing full frontal nudity in the movie, "pretty baby" when she was 12 years old. all countries do stupid and idiotic things when it comes to children. but now, you can not even buy that movie legally in it's original form because of that scene. i do not recall france having 13 year old playboy models. if that occurred, it still does not make them hypocrites. it means that they have have evolved and grown.

French director. Female writer. The director in particular is responsible for some genius works... such as My Dinner with Andre.

Nothing is seen in the movie that wouldn't be seen on a French Nude Beach... or webpages dedicated to Nudists.
gofrance.about.com...

Now the *subject* matter of the film may be quite difficult to watch... but that's the nature of films, books, etc trying to explore and bring to light topics which are otherwise typically swept under the rug. Especially when dealing with historical subjects where the intent is to use historical fiction to portray and educate on what people were really experiencing so we can better understand our past, how we got where we are, and where we want to go.

It isn't "evolution" to have a central government threaten people with jail. That's actually an admission of an inability to be able to self control.

Show an entire wedding party being slaughtered, charred remains of little boys hanging from rafters, the forced marriages and mental abuse of kids, rampant prostitution including the buildup to the outright murder of an infant, etc... and get hailed as incredible TV via Game of Thrones.

*shrug* Who am I to judge what people find offensive?

Did nobody else notice that the articles also mentioned the attempt to bring regulations in on child models was rejected?

You know, one of the industries where it's pretty well established girls are also being fed into prostitution rings?

Hoodwinked!

Furthermore: It appears the ruling is actually just to not allow *competitions*. That it is illegal to submit them to anything where they are *judged* on their looks.

So what is it you think people will do who still want to do the dress-up? Organize "shows" where nobody is competing... it's just an off-holiday costume party. With a stage. And lights. And music. But nobody is being told they aren't as pretty as another. At least not "officially".

This is a feel good measure... which hasn't even *passed* yet.

It's something that people can point to and say "see... we did something!" while not actually doing a damn thing for the girls in reality. I would be surprised if very many who voted for it have even spoken to a single one of those girls.

Vogue can still print their pictures of 10 year olds dressed like their adult models. They can still be put in TV shows. They can still sell sexy underwear to 6 year olds. They just can't *compete* while wearing them.

Or maybe they can so long as they are being judged on their "costume" and not their "beauty" since that's what the legislation is addressing. Costume contests for boys aren't banned... and it's a double standard to let boys have costume contests but not girls, yeah? But wait.. boys can be superman... can girls be supergirl? What is an acceptable supergirl costume and what isn't? Is that defined in this law? No.

Kids can still be pushed into smashing their bodies together in sports competitions. Gymnasts and ballerinas will continue their competitions despite the consequences when under the thumb of an overbearingly ambitious parent.

Gymnasts and ballerinas undergo the same or worse dietary and social restrictions as pageant models... and are competing against each other on looks, size, skill, showmanship, etc virtually every day... not just at special events. Nobody can pretend gymnasts and ballerinas don't subject their bodies to torture in order to remain thin, beautiful, small, whatever their "needs" are to "be the best". Then add in the physical injuries.

I find it curious that virtually every news story on this has photos on display along with the article, and not always the "nice" ones. So in the process of hailing it a victory for children's rights... we'll sit here and continue to plaster their images for everyone to gawk at. Did those girls consent to their images being used in those articles?

I've seen little to no concern in here over the worldwide display of those girls via these articles. Ban the pageant because they are over-sexualizing girls... but here... let us provide you with some pictures.

You're being hoodwinked and told this is something it isn't... and being led to believe it is doing something it is not.

Girls can still be put on stages in outfits you don't like in France.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


now there's one thing I agree with whole heartedly. Those contests are too weird!

No they have banned it altogeather content of children selling adult products in a provocative manner.

Ie, why they used vogue as an example

"The measure follows a parliamentary report "Against Hyper-Sexualisation: A New Fight For Equality" which called for a ban on child-size adult clothing, such as padded bras and high-heeled shoes and an end to beauty competitions for the under 16s."http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/child-beauty-contests-banned-in-france/story-fni0xs63-1226722367785

Its not ONLY beauty pageants its the over sexualisation of youngsters per say. Ie, they are fighting to prevent them having to behave sexually older than they are to please judges/teachers etc.

No one has been hoodwinked.

They don't approve of a " looks " based culture for children. I am in agreement with them.
I think its great when kids are just kids, until they are no longer kids.

reply to post by James1982


Double standard is right. Prettymuch every sports uniform out there, are made to show off the body as much as possible. The only sport that I played that didn't do that at all was hockey, but that would be prettymuch impossible to do. Too much pads and equipment, and that was the sport I ended up sticking with. Baseball and the tight ass stretchy pants, wrestling, ugh. I joined the wrestling team, made it through the initial cut sessions, and initial training, made the JV team, then I saw what I was expected to wear. Screw that, I quit on the spot. No way I was wearing that tiny thing, and coming into close physical contact with another dude wearing that tiny thing. It made me extremely uncomfortable just thinking about it.

reply to post by TKDRL


You know thats all about right: aerodynamics, tighter stuff snaggs on less, sweat management, very flexible to movie with body.

Showing off the body is actually the last thing its aimed to in most sports, with the exception of ballet and some dancing gymnastics i guess?

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Well, indeed... 14 or even 10 might be a whole different thing. I don't know how one sets an age on looking like a prostitute, as many of these girls are made up to look. I guess the point where they can dress themselves that way vs. when a parent is doing the vast majority of it.

You could say the US has an...unhealthy...obsession with toddlers in these. This is a google image search for pics related to "Toddlers and Tiaras" which has been a major show here on the phenomenon.

Google Image Search set for Toddlers & Tiaras

I can see how people might think it's over-reacting...if not appreciating just HOW young and HOW sexualized the children actually are on this stuff.

edit on 22-9-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Regardless if the parents want their daughters to choose 'a barbie doll carrer' kids have to follow a certain path in life to achieve that. They cant suddenly decide at the age of 18 hey I want to be a playboy model and make it happen. They have to keep a healthy body by dieting, groom themselves, practice competing with other girls in various events, get used to the spotlight, develop connections in the field, have parents willing to spend money on them.

When you choose a professional sports career, anyone one, not only do you need raw talent, you must develop it. That is why they have competitive sports in middle school, high school and college. You start practicing at an early age to develop your skills and fine tune them. Some people start at the age of 4.

I really do feel as though there are double standards when it comes beauty contests and other implicit or explicit sexually orientated material. It is the immaturity of society to blame, taboos built-in to the system by the church, feminist groups, conservatives. If someone doesn't like something and they do it against their will, THEN that is when it becomes offensive and perhaps criminal. People who choose to do something and enjoy it are fullfilling their ambitions. Sometimes I wish I was lucky enough to have fullfilled my childhood ambitions but circumstances did not allow it.

Arguing about age restrictions is like arguing about gun laws. How many do we need, what constitutes an assault rifle, how many rounds can be loaded in the magazine, what kind of triggers are allowed, the lengths of the barrel, etc. ITS SUBJECTIVE AND BASED ON PERSONAL BIAS!!!!! We could argue till we die and still not agree.

reply to post by Biigs


Sounds like a convenient excuse to me. We had no problem drilling and wrestling for 2 months in sweatpants and Tshirts, or practicing and scrimaging for baseball in jeans and tshirts etc etc. But the "uniforms" were an enforced thing you had to wear when playing for the audiences.

BardingTheBard
reply to post by Bluesma

 

According the OP article... France has a long history of child beauty pageants which would have been before before modern American influence. The Mini-miss pageants aren't American imports.

No, it doesn't say that.

There is one statement that says there is a "long history of beauty pageants"- which is an exagerration, if not outright lie. 1989 is when one started in France: 1921 is when the first child beauty pageant was held in the US.
"Miss" is english, not french. This is a phenomenon that is known as american. There are also Line Dancing clubs in France, and roping contests, and country music- they are geared towards the american fans, and make no attempt to claim french roots.

There was a brand that tried to include little girls sizes of lingerie, and it is precisely because that is not common or accepted that there was an outrage heard all the way across the Atlantic!

I still stand behind my original assertion, that the point was to make a statement that culturally, the practice is not endorsed or encouraged.... and that the motivation for the decision lies in the observation of what is going in the USA.

the French amendment's author, Chantal Jouanno, told The Associated Press.
"The question of the hyper-sexualization is deeper in the United States than in France, but the levees are starting to fall. Before we are hit by the wave, the point is to say very clearly: `Not here.'"

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.missfrancophonie.org...
This shows examples from 1989 and 1990. Long before Toddlers and Tiaras and Honey Boo Boo. 23+ years ago. You are free to try to to perhaps suggest it wasn't going on before... but... eh. This was a two minute google search... much less a thorough investigation into the true history of French approach to child fashion and modelling.

But sure... keep blaming Americans.

Well, there is a very big difference between 1989 and 1921- it took a while for the french to jump on the wagon, and one pageant versus who knows how many in the US.

In this article, it states:

L'amendement a été pris de façon très personnelle par nombre de commentateurs outre-Atlantique.

Pour la plupart d’entre eux, les choses sont claires : les concours de beauté de petites filles étant un divertissement typiquement américain, l'interdiction révèle par conséquent l’antiaméricanisme des Français, qui se permettent de juger la culture populaire américaine.

Translation:
The amendement was taken very personally by a number of commenters on the other side of the Atlantic.
For most of them, it is clear : Child beauty pageants, being a typically American activity, the law reveals the anti- American sentiment of the French, who dare to judge the American pop culture.

www.courrierinternational.com...

"Blaming the americans".... look, we americans aim to be the innovative ones in the world, so we are. That means that other countries stand back and watch how things work out for us before adopting them. We are the guinea pigs, by our own choice of values. It is in watching us all get diabetes that other countries are able to determine whether or not they want to sell soft drinks in schools, for example.

That isn't blame- that is just reality.
And I do know what I am talking about- as an american woman living in France, I have to deal with the stereotypes and contrasting values all the time, and intimately.

You start early in life.

That fourth grader looks better than michael jordan. AWESOME!

I am very happy to see that one country has taken the path to stop what we know have become an epidemic, the prostitution of young children.

Here in the US we got laws against the exploitation of young children but for some reason the laws established do not work when it comes to the dirty part of our corporate nation that deals with exploiting young children for profits.

People get outraged when news of children exploitation are in the media, but none are very much outraged when exploitation, like children beauty contest are still allowed in this nation, because is money to be make, even for the underground children pornography groups.

What about cheerleaders and dancers? One friend of mine has a 8 year old daughter who is a cheerleader. It amazes me, skimpy outfits and caked on makeup, just like the adult cheerleaders. Another friend of mine has a 11 year old into all kinds of dancing. It's pretty surreal seeing them put up their competition videos and seeing a bunch of little kids dressing skimpy and dancing sexy in front of a large crowd like that. In dancing, the hiphop style seems to be the worst offender.

Bluesma

"Miss" is english, not french. This is a phenomenon that is known as american. There are also Line Dancing clubs in France, and roping contests, and country music- they are geared towards the american fans, and make no attempt to claim french roots.

Regardless the french are known as socially progressive people. Everyone knows their love culture and cabarrets, their romance, etc.

There was a brand that tried to include little girls sizes of lingerie, and it is precisely because that is not common or accepted that there was an outrage heard all the way across the Atlantic!

It comes down to arguing details of what is socially acceptable and what is not. Its a subjective topic based on cultural issues. Americans are known to overdue/exaggerate things while the french are modest people.

If beauty pageants were really a taboo they would have been outlawed till 18 or altogether. There would be no playboy and penthouse models in nearly every developed country in the world. There would be no market for that stuff.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


A start, the US, UK and many other countries have been doing for years in the form of reality TV shows, idol worship (Teen Idol etc) and general crap that is shown in kids daytime TV these days.

marg6043
I am very happy to see that one country has taken the path to stop what we know have become an epidemic, the prostitution of young children.

Here in the US we got laws against the exploitation of young children but for some reason the laws established do not work when it comes to the dirty part of our corporate nation that deals with exploiting young children for profits.

People get outraged when news of children exploitation are in the media, but none are very much outraged when exploitation, like children beauty contest are still allowed in this nation, because is money to be make, even for the underground children pornography groups.

Since the elite control everything there is exploitation in every high profile career. To become a rock star, tv show host, fashion model, sports star, reality tv star, business world, etc. The church itself is known for participating in pedophilia rings sometimes.

Ephesians 6:10-18, “Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.”

Its a bit hypocritical to put all the blame on beauty pageantry.