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Bills Would Require Michiganders To Work For Welfare, Pass Drug Test

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posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by VindiVin
 





They should HAVE to do SOMETHING to earn what they are already being GIVEN.


Sure, why not. Wait...

So you want to pay them to do jobs? What does that sound like... man that almost sounds like communist Russia...

I'm more on par with them being forced to learn something then to work for it.




VOLUNTARILY


So you want to voluntarily force them to work?

Everything you just suggest they do is something that should be getting paid for creating high paying jobs with our tax dollars rather then building bombs and engaging in wars.

I would prefer that people be payed decent wages, our tax dollars be reinvest into infrastructure where we put the construction industry back to work, and everyone in America be given a free education of their choosing.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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IMO the government gets what they deserve when it comes to welfare "queens" as some have put it.

It is their own fault there is so much corruption. It is far too easy to sign up and get benefits. They do not check any of the information you put on the form. It's all done online and you can lie your rear off. I know a few people who get it and shouldn't and they openly admit they lied and fibbed numbers which really pisses me off. Those kinds of people are taking from those who truly need it and are denied because they are honest! If more liars were kicked off assistance those who were denied would get it. I know many people who were denied and it floored me because I couldn't understand why.

I can't help but think they get something out of all these people being on assistance and the EBT cards being used in places like a 7-11 gas station. I'm sorry but when did 7-11 items become a necessity for food? When i was a kid my mom had food stamps and they were paper money and you could only use them on FOOD. Now you can use them on any kind of food even prepared which before you couldn't. It amazes me that even some fast food places let you use them. Again when did Burger King become a necessity when it comes to food? Isn't it suppose to be a "treat" not a daily need to eat meal to live?!

There are those who do not abuse the system and truly need and appreciate the help they get. You never hear about those people only the ones who abuse it. Well I get food stamps and I am embarrassed yes. I have never had any assistance in my life but when I lost my job due to being pregnant I had to do something. My income paid for food and stuff for the house. I get very little in food stamps but it helps and I am grateful. I shop sales to get the most out of my money. I also sell things here and there online to make extra cash so I can get things for the house. My husband works and lives overseas and he pays for everything. He makes decent money but when you are the main money maker in the house it isn't all that much. I am very good at budgeting our money and making sure it lasts and goes further. I will not have any food assistance past November after I do my review. I am sure they will not give it to me once I add my husband on there, we just got married. They will say we make too much money when if you break it down for two people it's the poverty line, sad huh? I don't consider us poor in the traditional sense, we have everything we need and a roof over our head. I buy most everything second hand if I can and I try and shop where there are sales and buy one get ones for food so the money goes further. If I lose my assistance in November yea it will hurt and it will suck but I won't go hungry. I will have to re-budget things to make it work. It will be very tight but I can make it work.

I don't think there is anything wrong with making people volunteer that are on assistance but it won't help them get a job. Also what about those like myself who have kids and can't just go somewhere and volunteer when they have no child care and certainly can't afford it. I am a stay at home mom now, something I never thought I'd be but I can't afford to put my child in day care, too darn expensive and in today's society I don't trust them to be honest. I have a few ways I can make money on the side and it seems to work so far. I am not one who requires money coming out of my wallet to be happy. I made about $100 bucks a week at my job before i lost it from being pregnant. I worked 35hrs a week and it was very physical. I didn't make jack but it was something and I was grateful for it and it paid for what i needed it to. I also enjoyed the job.


As for drug testing. If you can afford drugs you don't need assistance so I'm all for drug testing recipients.

I have seen far too many people abuse the system. It is time they made a change and stopped allowing people to do so!!



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by VindiVin
 


From what I have heard about this, every parent who gets assistance, including food stamps and insurance for their children, needs to get a drug test. If they refuse or don't pass they are cut off.

At twenty bucks a pop for the test kit and the supplies to process the kit, that is a lot of money when added up for all the required people. Even if it is done at the health department those costs apply. Someone gets the profits from the kits? The medical industry includes more than just doctors.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 


Yeah lets do that rather then rebuild our bridges, our buildings, our roads, and so on and so forth....I mean why would we do that?



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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This thread is not only about urinalysis. That is a separate bill from the one that puts able bodied welfare recipients to work to receive their benefits.

Only a few here seem to recognize that and the rest all get their undies tied up in a wad because of their feelings.

I ask in all honesty. Why should I, as a taxpayer be willing to give money to some one that is perfectly capable of work, but given no incentive, they don't? Why should I be OK with that?

There are plenty of community projects that could use all the help they could use. For those single parents, teach/certify them to be day-care and they along with others at a central location can watch the kids while others go out and work. This is a no-brainer.

As our friend the Evil Elf says, everybody has a means to contribute.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


No, what they should do is turn those community insensitive into jobs so that people who are actually willing to work can.

Putting them to work for their welfare is not the answer jeez people. Your taking away high paying jobs and making people on welfare do those jobs for welfare, dont you see where that road leads?

HOLY #. My god get it together people.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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Probably already addressed, but I'm gonna just shoot from the hip and reply w/o reading responses.

1. Florida has already proven that the cost to drug test FAR outweighs the savings.
2. Since most people on welfare are single mothers, who is going to babysit (and pay for said babysitting) while these single mothers are at work? What's the pay? is the pay less/more than living expenses minus the cost of child care?

Another losing idea if you ask me.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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onequestion
reply to post by TDawgRex
 



Putting them to work for their welfare is not the answer jeez people. Your taking away high paying jobs and making people on welfare do those jobs for welfare, dont you see where that road leads?


Well, let's be cold hearted about it then. Cut off all their benefits. Let's see were that road leads. I think it'd pretty much lead to ruin, don't you?

But to give some one a hand up and not a hand out is where I see this bill. I support it wholeheartedly. People in my past have given me a hand up and they have help me to be the person I am today. But I never received anything free, for just breathing air.


edit on 19-9-2013 by TDawgRex because: That's odd.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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LeatherNLace
Probably already addressed, but I'm gonna just shoot from the hip and reply w/o reading responses.

1. Florida has already proven that the cost to drug test FAR outweighs the savings.
2. Since most people on welfare are single mothers, who is going to babysit (and pay for said babysitting) while these single mothers are at work? What's the pay? is the pay less/more than living expenses minus the cost of child care?

Another losing idea if you ask me.


I actually addressed that very thing two posts above.

The pay is the welfare check, which now could actually be called a employment check as they would be effectively working for the city.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I am not going to support putting people to work for welfare rather then just hiring them to do a job.

Give me a break.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 





The pay is the welfare check, which now could actually be called a employment check as they would be effectively working for the city.


So the welfare recipient pays for the drug tests? That ought to give them plenty of financial freedom in their ever tight budget.

If these recipients are single without kids, then I am all for it. However, if it takes food off the table of innocent children, then not so much. How to fix it? Comprehensive reform in an era when conservatives want less regulation? Good luck with that ish!

ALSO, that "pay check" becomes much less significant once the recipient has to work a 9 to 5 and has to put their kids in day care. How to pay for it? Extra compensation (at the tax payer's expense)? IMO, things are better off left as is....at least until there is a comprehensive plan that covers all bases. Until then, any legislation requiring full time employment in addition to drug testing is going to be a complete failure.
edit on 19-9-2013 by LeatherNLace because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


LOL, No. Don't you understand that by putting a recipient to work is basically hiring them, though it would probably be part-time.

I see people gaming the system all the time, living better than the average person. That grates my nerve.

This bill is basically another Tri-C program, which wasn't totally successful but did do some good.

I'm OK with no urinalysis, but I am not OK with supporting someone that refuses to support themselves even though they are perfectly capable.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 





I am not OK with supporting someone that refuses to support themselves even though they are perfectly capable.


"Perfectly capable" is totally subjective. If I get $500 a month in welfare and then, suddenly, I have to go to work for the same pay, and suddenly my my child care cost goes from $0 to $500 per month, then now I have worked to pay for child care that I was already providing to my own children. BUT, now I have no money to pay my basic bills because it is going to a babysitter that is now providing a service I used to provide at no cost.

It's not the same thing, no matter what math you choose to use.

In principle, I do not disagree with you; but much like folks like to point out "liberal utopias"...what you suggest is nothing more than a "conservative utopia". Neither are attainable; and, until there is a concrete plan in place that addresses ALL issues, then any legislation that leans your direction is only going to make things worse.
edit on 19-9-2013 by LeatherNLace because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by LeatherNLace
 


I believe that I can feel your pain, though I have no children to support. I too, pretty much live month to month right below the poverty line and often have to blow some bills off to pay another. I hope that things improve for you.

I've always understood that welfare was a hand up, not a hand out. And yes, everybody has a story.

I think that they should attach a school program/OJT to welfare for those who can do the jobs available. Welding/Cutting steel, CNC, Heavy Equipment Operator and such, not to mention the basic trades. If the opportunity is available, put them to work within their own neighborhoods so that others will see their example and hopefully learn from it.

As was pointed out earlier, Roads and Bridges all across the US are in dire need of repair. I think that this could be a decent solution to that.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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TDawgRex
This thread is not only about urinalysis. That is a separate bill from the one that puts able bodied welfare recipients to work to receive their benefits.

Only a few here seem to recognize that and the rest all get their undies tied up in a wad because of their feelings.

I ask in all honesty. Why should I, as a taxpayer be willing to give money to some one that is perfectly capable of work, but given no incentive, they don't? Why should I be OK with that?

There are plenty of community projects that could use all the help they could use. For those single parents, teach/certify them to be day-care and they along with others at a central location can watch the kids while others go out and work. This is a no-brainer.

As our friend the Evil Elf says, everybody has a means to contribute.


What? You mentioned the drug test in the title. The article you quoted mentioned it. How can you suddenly just declare the drug test off topic? I brought up a very real issue where the drug tests will cost more money for the city. Money the state already doesn't have.

But ok, let's talk about welfare. Since you don't seem to want to discuss these bills and just want to gripe about where your taxes go to. Let's talk about corporate welfare. FAR more tax money goes to corporate welfare. Corporations that are gaining RECORD profits. Corporations that turn around and pay their employees SO little that they are forced to go on welfare to supplement their income. And that's for the people lucky enough to get those jobs. Not everyone can just up and move to another location that has many job openings.

I want to reduce welfare as much as the next guy, but how about focusing on the elephant in the room before you start tackling the deer. Cut the corporations off, force them to either man up and handle things on their own or go out of business and let a smaller smarter company (with local jobs mind you) take its place. Once you fix the corporate welfare problem, the other welfare problem should go away overnight. Not to mention it will be much easier to spot the welfare frauds.
edit on 19-9-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


I just used the headline from the article. They are two separate bill not attached to each other. As for corporate welfare, I assume you are talking about closing the loopholes in the tax codes? I totally agree with that.

GE hasn't paid squat in taxes yet I get audited every year and I live right at the poverty line. Yep...that makes all sorts of sense.

And to those who say that using their loopholes are bringing in new jobs so that companies expand. Bull Pukey!

But I still see a need for welfare reform.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


In all honesty, I have no kids and am also well above the poverty level. It's just that I have empathy. I don't have to have been in someone's shoes to walk their mile. I see where things are today and I want them to be better...better at the least expense to us all. However, I also know reality. Reality says most folks that are receiving welfare are kids by way of their parents.

I look at China and their horrific child labor practices and I say "thank gawd kids in America get an opportunity at some sort of education and don't have to work in sweatshops". Then I read stories like your OP and I think to myself "my gawd, if the conservatives get their way then we WILL BE China"

In addition, crime rates will go up; thus, increasing your auto/homeowners insurance. Deductibles go up. Healthcare costs go up. EVERYTHING goes up. It's a historical fact.

If nothing, I'm content where we are at the moment....until a comprehensive, all encompassing, reform is bilaterally passed in congress. Until then, blah on the whole issue....Jobs & infrastructure should be the primary focus of our government.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Create a job, not pay welfare, then they have the choice to work or not. If given the choice to work or starve they will work. Its really simple.

What your saying is nonsense. Are Americans really this blind?



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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onequestion
reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Create a job, not pay welfare, then they have the choice to work or not. If given the choice to work or starve they will work. Its really simple.

What your saying is nonsense. Are Americans really this blind?


Yes, the answer to the problem really is simple, but getting the people to buy it is a whole lot harder. And people all over the world are blind as well.

Please explain why putting some one to work for money that they receive as nonsense. I think it is nonsense to give money away to those that refuse to work. Those on disability or single parent I can see, and even in the case of the single parent it needs to be tweaked.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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Strangest thing happened today. A biker, who I'm sure was not a biker but a poser... pretending to be from the south with a bunch of confederate crap patched all over his jacket, talking with a northern accent... maybe jersey....started talking to me today in the grocery store.... preaching to me about foodstamps after saying something about my strawberries.

it was so fake and what he said made no sense. He said "I have to buy generic brands so they can can have name brands" and was waving toward the front of the line toward two black women talking to the black cashier, which is automatically offensive. I didn't even see them with a foodstamp card. and then he really looks at me "No, really... Does that make any sense to you?" I said "Why, because you can't afford to buy name brands?"
he said "yeah"

i said... "Apply for foodstamps"

i mean hell, if you can't buy groceries, apply for food stamps...der. Or no, support the government who sends weapons to rebels but don't expect them to keep needy causes at bay by at least feeding people. The world actually has plenty of food, the management of resources is what is terrible.

he acted like he was too good to do that. "Me, apply for food stamps?" Shakin his head while making a frowny face. the whole thing was so strange because he had this stupid patch on his back that said Southern confederate boy" or something like that, we was an elderly man and I'm pretty sure he was jewish italian. The patch went on to say "If you find him lost, or intoxicated, keep him away from yankees and treat him with mint julip until he can get home"...or some dumbass crap. And then he had a bunch of other patches saying some confederate crap, but no rebel flag... not one rebel flag. Rebel flags- common, but all this other posery crap? No.

I know the difference between someone from the south and someone from the north...trust me, this was obvious. It was like I was being trolled in the store.

We got foodstamp trolls in the store. I rode around the parking lot to see if i could see the guy, so I could see where his tag was really from... because all of that was just strange.

Something weird is going on and it wouldn't surprise me if it starts up north, especially around michigan. Something is about to drastically change. Either the world is drastically going to change or it's just going to change to me because I'll be going somewhere else after crazy northern, wannabe confederate jersey talking poser bikers come after me trying to prove some point that no one will get.

i say don't be trying to create any card house job that will prolong the issue. more jobs will only make more garbage and confusing economic issues. people need to start creating jobs for themselves again. We have gotten too far away from that because we have no choice but to be dependant on the system, and they don't allow us to have money saving resources that we could potentially have... eliminating the need for a lot of that money everyone is so hard up for. Give the people what they need. Kill the leeching at the top from wasteful endeavors and banks. drug test for benefits, but also legalize marijuana. people that can't stop smoking it so they can get benefits can try their hand in a legal business. many products can be made from hemp and it's already a huge american market. Who makes the most money from it though? IMO, black ops.

You see, it all goes to their crap... their CIA and war control global conspiracy crap.
we can't all be in on THAT business and if we were, the world would be a terrible place...even more so.

Screw em... feed the poor. It's the poor who grows he damn food in the first place. It's the poor who cooks the food. it's the poor who packages the food. It's the poor who has to clean up the mess from the food.

If some are too *good* to grow the food, cook the food, pack the food and clean up the #... then let them do what they want and continue to make complaints that make no sense instead of buying food.

how many math classes does it have to take a person to go through before they can figure out that average wages in america do not compete with the inflation from the harebrained money schemes they have recently cooked up? It's NEVER going to add up until people can acquire land and start being self sufficient again. You can get land sort of cheap but I'll be damned if you can build anything on it that easy. i mean you COULD... if there weren't all kinds of things you have to deal with and go through and with the real estate market all jacked up, you still have to get a huge loan.

Don't get me started on the real estate crap. maybe some of you have heard of a jewish guy that went to jail for turning over on the israeli government a long time ago... oh, what was his name? He was one of the first famous whistleblowers and he went to prison. Anyway... he got caught up in a honeypot situation like julian assange did and the women who was , by appearacnces, an average US citizen...was actually working for mossad and she is still working in a real estate mortgage company out of longwood fl, around orlando....and around that area is where the mortgage company is that screwedd my mother out of her house.

I thought that was funny....The coincidence, not how they screwed her out of her house.
i don't know if it is the same conglomeration because they are very bad at switching hands which changes the rates on some mortgages and they were doing this every two months and not sending her appropriate documentation of it and she would call them and they would tell her that all she needed to pay was "...." so she would pay it then the buyers syarted coming by. i dug into it and found out the house was being auctioned and nobody in our family even knew. They didn't tell her and they also didn't tell her that with the mortgages, she could pay a certain amount but would have to make up the difference in the next month like a double payment, but they weren't telling her that. she started acruing late fees and then they charged her for their lawyer that put all this into motion. she had to sell her house in a matter of a month.

they totally scammed her no matter how hard she tried to keep up with the different mortgage companies.

i can tell you some other crazy stuff that went on my credit done by a slumlord but it's a tangent so I'll skip it for now... but it's all very interesting... just how ruthlessly greedy these people are.

i'm getting angry just thinking about it.

There's something wrong with these people.

We have GOT to take this country back... it belongs to the people, we are entitled to live and eat here.
We are entitled to live our lives without these banking schemes. If the government can fund multibillion dollar wars and LOSE TRILLIONS, they can feed people!

the people complaining about benefits are just the wrnech in the gears to progress. the REAL problem is greed and corruption on high levels, not the poor and hungry.



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