Attention all Christians: The Church Age is an age of total Prophetic Silence!!!

BELIEVERpriest
Are we not suffering enough, that you want to experience the tribulation?

It's not a matter of WANTING to ... it's a matter of facing up to the fact that we are going to HAVE TO. The martyrs had to. We are not any better than them. We should prepare to face it as best we can ... otherwise we'll be caught short and faith wont' survive the trials.

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
Are we not suffering enough, that you want to experience the tribulation?

It's not a matter of WANTING to ... it's a matter of facing up to the fact that we are going to HAVE TO. The martyrs had to. We are not any better than them. We should prepare to face it as best we can ... otherwise we'll be caught short and faith wont' survive the trials.

Well, by that logic, the God needs to ressusitate any believer who has not suffered enough in their life time so that they can experience the tribulation too.

How dare they die without suffering. Lol. Thats just backwards.

Seems like when the pretribulation rapture happens, you will be the only one kicking and screaming all the way to heaven because you need a second helping of suffering.

I gave three instances when God spared His children. You've built your case on doctrinal misconceptions.

Really, Im sorry, but you will never have the opportunity to get the Anti-Christ's autograph. You'll be in heaven with Jesus and the rest of the Church.

FlyersFan

ServantOfTheLamb
I mean you are acting like those of us who see there is a pre-trib rapture have rejected Christ.

No I"m not. You are reading something in my post as being there that isn't.

Pretrib rapture is a dangerous doctrine. Not because it means people are rejecting Christ.
But because people are thinking they won't have to go through tribulation.
They won't be ready to accept being left here to suffer with everyone else.
WHen they are still here, they could easily lose faith.
THAT is why it's dangerous.

"Rapture" has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. Not a darn thing. Although, many people I have talked to who believe in a pre-trib rapture are rather snooty. They think that they'll be taken and others, who aren't as good christians as they are, will be left. So that's another danger I guess .... excessive pride in many who buy into a pre-trib rapture.

Well let me give you three pages of pre tribe rapture references.

gracethrufaith.com...
gracethrufaith.com...
gracethrufaith.com...

If this doesn't do it for you, dont worry I will explain it on the way up

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I know that the tetrad isn't mentioned, but did you just ignore all the verses backing up the idea that God gives us astronomical signs and warnings?

ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

I know that the tetrad isn't mentioned, but did you just ignore all the verses backing up the idea that God gives us astronomical signs and warnings?

I didnt ignore the verses quoted. None of them speak of the tetrad. The signs in the stars, sun and moon only occur during the triibulation. When the sun and moon is darkened by 1/3rd, at the 2nd advent which is described in the sixth seal. None of the quoted prophecies are Church Age prophecies, and none can be proven as Church Age events.

The genesis verse says that the sun rules the day, and the luminaries (stars) rule the night. The moon is not a luminary (Job understood this), and the moon can often be seen in broad daylight.

So the only way the tetrad can fall on feast days is if the moon is used for the Rosh Chodesh. God warned Israel against using a lunar Rosh Chodesh, and He punished them for not listening. The 1948 tetrad connection is a Satanic deception. There is nothing supernatural abour it. Its a predictable pattern. The blood moon of the 2nd advent will be confused and therefore will not follow its usual orbital schedule.

I respect you for your research. Therefore, I challenge you to prove that the Biblical calendar is Lunisolar. If you can prove that, then I will accept the tetrad as truth. No links, just scripture and your interpretation.

The rapture/resurrection takes place at the 2nd coming of Christ. There is no pre-trib rapture. No second chance for anyone.

BELIEVERpriest

ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

I know that the tetrad isn't mentioned, but did you just ignore all the verses backing up the idea that God gives us astronomical signs and warnings?

I didnt ignore the verses quoted. None of them speak of the tetrad. The signs in the stars, sun and moon only occur during the triibulation. When the sun and moon is darkened by 1/3rd, at the 2nd advent which is described in the sixth seal. None of the quoted prophecies are Church Age prophecies, and none can be proven as Church Age events.

The genesis verse says that the sun rules the day, and the luminaries (stars) rule the night. The moon is not a luminary (Job understood this), and the moon can often be seen in broad daylight.

So the only way the tetrad can fall on feast days is if the moon is used for the Rosh Chodesh. God warned Israel against using a lunar Rosh Chodesh, and He punished them for not listening. The 1948 tetrad connection is a Satanic deception. There is nothing supernatural abour it. Its a predictable pattern. The blood moon of the 2nd advent will be confused and therefore will not follow its usual orbital schedule.

I respect you for your research. Therefore, I challenge you to prove that the Biblical calendar is Lunisolar. If you can prove that, then I will accept the tetrad as truth. No links, just scripture and your interpretation.

Ok


Genesis 1
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Okay look into the original language of 1:14. The word translated sacred is more accurately translated to appointed times. Let there be lights in the vault fo the sky to separate the day from the night. The God goes on to tell us that he made two greater lights. He refers to the moon as a light in the passage, so it would be logical to assume the moon would be associate with the lights in 1:14.

If you do not use a 360 day calendar then you do not receive a 3.5 year time frame in rev 12:14 rev 11:2 and rev 12:6. These three measurements are only the same on a 360 day calendar. I think this was God's way of keeping prophecy clear and specific no matter what we do to many calendars we have.

I suppose I am saying we should look at a lunar calendar only, because that is originally how God ordained it. Why do you believe genesis 1:14 only applies to the second advent?

truejew
The rapture/resurrection takes place at the 2nd coming of Christ. There is no pre-trib rapture. No second chance for anyone.

edit on 20-9-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Prove it?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Genesis 1:16 makes no direct reference to the moon. It identifies the lesser luminaries as the stars. As i said before, the moon is often still visible in broad day light, and Job identifies the moon as a reflector, not a luminary.

Compare the translations.

NAS Gen 1:16

16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; [He made] the stars also.

Versus

"God made the two great (categories of) luminaries, the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night; the stars (general multitude of luminaries).

The word "also" is not found in the Hebrew. Instead, the untraslatable accusative case "ayth" is used (853 young's). This word is not always used as a conjunctive. It is found three times in this passage, but only translated as "also" in reference to the stars because the translaters (falsely) assumed that the moon was in view. A common misconception.

Since the passage is talking about the day versus the night, the "two luminaries" are the "two categories of luminaries": 'the sun for the day, and the lesser for the night; the stars'.

You can argue that the moon is included, but this passage is about day versus night.

The sun is for the day, the stars for the night.

The our relative position to the sun determines the quarterly seasons therefore the timing of the "moedim". The moon will cause the "moedim" to abandon their proper season after three un-intercalated years. The sun will never betray the "moedim" as the sun perpetuates our orbit.

The precession of the Mazaroth is used to track the passage of years.

The signs in the Sun and stars are the blackening of the Sun and stars at the 2nd advent. A black Sun and no stars means a red moon reflecting the Light of Christ and His returning Saints. That is the sign (singular) of the 2nd advent. It is repeated throughout the Old and New Testament. It is one single event, the event that Israel and the Church have been eagerly waiting for. The sixth seal is the 2nd advent.

Therefore, only the luminaries (Sun and stars of the Mazaroth) are relavent to God's calendar.

David only made priestly and military provisions for 12 months out of the year, never for the intercalary 13th month, because its not supposed to happen.

Job recognized the moon as a reflector, not one of the luminaries of Genesis 1.

Noah followed a uniform 30 day per month calendar, not 29.5 days (lunar).

You say the prophetic year is 360 days, yet the lunar calendar only observes a 354 day year.

I believe the tribulation is [36 days for covenant signing + 1260 days +1260 days].

After the rapture, the False prophet will have 36 days to sign a 7 (360 day) year covenant with Israel on behalf of the Antichrist. Then the witnesses will give their testamony for 42 months (1260 days). Then Apollyon will kill them at midpoint of the covenant. Then the Antichrist will rule for the last 42 months (1260 days).

Notice God's witty number play 36 days vs 360 days.

You cannot reconcile this with a 354 day lunar calendar. It simply doesnt work.

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew
The rapture/resurrection takes place at the 2nd coming of Christ. There is no pre-trib rapture. No second chance for anyone.

edit on 20-9-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Prove it?

There is no mention of a pre-trib rapture or second chance in scripture just like there is no mention of a trinity or gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. I stick to scripture. I do not follow man made doctrines like you have a habit of doing.

no one can predict the day or the hour

spartacus699
no one can predict the day or the hour

When Jesus made that statement, He was using the perfect active indicative tense of "know", and He was including Himself in the clause. Basically saying He could never know the day or hour either. But, in His ressurrected state, Jesus is now restored with His omniscience, so that violates the literal perfect active indicative clause. Therefore, "no one knows" can not be taken for cognitive knowledge, but as an anthropopathic metaphor for authority.

The Father sets the rapture appointmemt by His will, we may be able to discover the time, but neither man, angel nor Jesus can delay or expedite that date.

Actual knowledge of the day and hour was never formally prohibited.

reply to post by spartacus699


Only one problem with that. If you look at Matthew 24 you have to ask "what is he talking about."

Matthew 24 link.

He's talking about the end of the world and in verse 14 he tells us what that event is.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And the problem is that there is a nation of Israel in the world today. A end time event predicted in multiple places in the bible. So that means the event that started the end of the world happened on or before May 15th 1948. When Israel became a nation.

It's already happened and it was quite awhile ago.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

I am not a prophet. The pre tribulation rapture was revealed long ago by Jesus Himself in the gospels, witnessed by John in Revelation 4 and the 5th seal, and Paul also goes into detail about it. So I am not giving any prophetic utterance.

What I do is analyze the cyclical historical trends of the Church Age in an attempt to produce hypothetical possibilities reguarding the date of the rapture. I am a speculative date-setter. So far, the next date is 9/16/2016 (feast of trumpets). If not 2016, then 2023, or 2128, or 2198 (this is as far as I have calculated).

I do not hold 9/16/2016 as an absolute. I just believe that if the Body of Christ is fully matured by that date (or the other dates presented), the rapture can or will happen.

I speculate based on trends like an economist. But between the completion of the Book of Revelation and the pre tribulation rapture is a total prophetic dead zone. During the Church age, the course of history is determined by the volitional responsibility of Christians, not prophecy. Prophecy is for Israel.

edit on 19-9-2013 by BELIEVERpriest because: typos

Believer,

Hi, do not get your heart set on a pre-Trib Rapture. The supposed Rapture verses are about the Final Judgment. You have to pick up your cross and follow Christ through the Great Tribulation. Jesus suffered and died, why wouldn't Christians do the same one day?

Our Lord is giving a Protestant prophet teaching messages, correcting the heresies. Go read some
Kevin Barrett's messages. Jesus repeats and repeats, NO Rapture.

www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com...


God bless you,


colbe

reply to post by colbe


I have to disagree with you. Christians have to pick up their crosses and suffer on a daily basis. Just because America enjoys relative freedom and prosperity now, doesnt mean that there arent Christians suffering martyrdom in other parts of the world. If its not oppression or martyrdom, its starvation, cancer, disease, crime,etc.

Many American Christians have died during times of American freedom and glory. What about them? Have they not suffered enough? That is God's sovreign choice; whose faith is tested by suffering or who deserves discipline.

Aside from that, human history is clearely broken down into dispensations: Age of Eden, Antediluvian Age, Age of Patriarks, Age of Israel (ending at the 69th week), Hypostatic Union (transitioning from Law to Grace), Church Age, 70th week of Israel (no longer under Law), Millenial Kingdom, the the Eternal State.

The Book of Revelation makes a clear distinction between the Church that "came away from the tribulation" (Rev 7:14 is mistranslated) and the 144k of Israel during the tribluation.

The 7 seals are a summary of the chruch age and tribulation. Seals 1-4 are historical trends of suffering starting in the Church Age and leading up to the rapture. The 5th seal is the rapture of the dead, the 6th seal a description of the 2nd advent, the 7th seal is a period of silence transitioning the greek style drama from the introductory summary to the actual begginning of the tribulation at the 1st trumpet.

The trumpet call of the rapture is depicted in Rev 4:1 (the greek meta tauta makes the rapture transition). The fifth seal is the ressurection of the dead, and Rev 7:14 is a depiction of the result of the pre-tribulation rapture in heaven.

America is in its final stages of discipline. After this last wave, it will fall if we do not return to God. Soon we will all have to pick up our crosses and suffer. After that, if God is ready, He will remove the Church after our final suffering, and redirect His discipline towards Israel.

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew
The rapture/resurrection takes place at the 2nd coming of Christ. There is no pre-trib rapture. No second chance for anyone.

edit on 20-9-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Prove it?

There is no mention of a pre-trib rapture or second chance in scripture just like there is no mention of a trinity or gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. I stick to scripture. I do not follow man made doctrines like you have a habit of doing.

No scripture verses for the trinity......are you serious.......I might agree that the word trinity is probably not in Scripture, but the concept of the trinity is definitely in Scripture. Should I list a few?

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


Pair these next two together

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Pair these two again.

Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 1:12-16
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.

plenty more..

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew
The rapture/resurrection takes place at the 2nd coming of Christ. There is no pre-trib rapture. No second chance for anyone.

edit on 20-9-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Prove it?

There is no mention of a pre-trib rapture or second chance in scripture just like there is no mention of a trinity or gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. I stick to scripture. I do not follow man made doctrines like you have a habit of doing.

No scripture verses for the trinity......are you serious.......I might agree that the word trinity is probably not in Scripture, but the concept of the trinity is definitely in Scripture. Should I list a few?

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


Pair these next two together

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Pair these two again.

Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 1:12-16
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.

plenty more..

The scriptures you give just say that Jesus is God. There is no mention of three separate god persons.

reply to post by truejew


Who taught you that there is no trinity and that water baptism saves? I find it hard to believe that you have so grossly twisted the scriptures all by yourself.

Hey guys/girls I just have a question.

When is the next re-write lof the bible?

I have some really cool stuff I want to put in there!

There is this galatic space lord, and a damsil in distress, I was even going to stick a robot dragon in there!

Thats awesome right, then we can hook the nerds on the bible too...just a thought, get back at me!

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

Who taught you that there is no trinity and that water baptism saves? I find it hard to believe that you have so grossly twisted the scriptures all by yourself.

Scripture teaches the necessity of water baptism. There is no mention of God being three god persons in scripture.