Attention all Christians: The Church Age is an age of total Prophetic Silence!!!

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

Keep slingn the mud, but let me know when you have something intellegent to say.

I am only calling you out so that others do not follow you on your path. Jesus Christ is the only path that leads to salvation. False prophets and antichrists will lead to destruction.

reply to post by truejew


When have I ever claimed that Jesus is not THE way? Salvation is by faith alone in Christ. How is any part of that message anti-christ?

I have not denied Christ by any means. I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was and is the Son of God (and is equally God), and He willingly died on the cross for my sins, your sins, and the sins of the rest of the world.

You are the one who calls Jesus a lyer by saying that water baptism is a requisite for salvation, therefore denying that salvation is by faith alone.

God is not interested in your self-righteous water baptism. First you must believe on the Son. Water baptism is merely a symbol of faith.

So who is the anti-christ here? The one teaching salvation by faith, or the one teaching salvation by works?

Ive been debating with you for some time now in the other threads, and I must say, your arrogance and willfull ignorance sickens me to the very marrow of my bones.

May the Lord judge you for your slander against Him and His many servants.

Repent and come to Christ by faith alone or be subject to the second death. The choice is yours.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


Well, I think I can answer your question here. To start with is this parable of the fig tree from Mark 13.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Then the question is "Why has this trip taken so long?" So after some research I figured out the problem. And it's this verse from the book of Hosea and the Day of Jezreel prophecy.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3 Days??? That's a major problem. Read the verse.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Those days are thousand year periods of time. So that verse read in context with the rest of Hosea and Leviticus 26 means this.

It was predicted that Israel was going to trigger a long term Leviticus 26 curse that was going to last 2000 years. Followed by a 1000 year "day of Jezreel".

Quite simply that "trip" of Mark 13 is this curse. The first century Jews managed to trigger it by the way they treated God's chosen ones. Though the actual cause seems to be these 2 verses.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


It would appear that in killing John the Baptist, Herod managed to trigger the curse.

I think that answers your question.

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. That is an invention of failed Anglican priest, Nelson Darby, in the 1800s. "Rapture" is not in scripture. In fact, just the opposite is in scripture - the good stay and the bad are taken off Earth. No "get out of tribulation free' card has ever been given to any of God's faithful. As a matter of fact, just the opposite usually happens. Those who follow God (or Jesus) usually suffer greatly.

This is wildly incorrect. Whether you agree or disagree with a pre-tribulation rapture, you're stating things as fact that simply aren't accurate at all.

Nelson Darby is not the originator of the Rapture.
To give you a single indication of an ancient source, I refer you to Ephraem the Syrian, who stated in 373 that:

"all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins"

- On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373.

There are many other ancient sources that show a belief in a pre-tribulational rapture. For further examples, I'd recommend this book. There are literally hundreds of references to the pre-trib rapture in belief throughout Christian history:
www.bookdepository.co.uk...


Now, as for the Rapture not being in Scripture - you're right, the word 'rapture' isn't... because the word 'rapture' is LATIN (rapere).
The word in Scripture is HARPAZO, which is in fact used 13 times in the New Testament (source: www.studylight.org...)

Now, NONE of these things means that a pre-tribulational rapture is necessarily true (and obviously it's up to you to decide that for yourself)... but it remains nonetheless a biblically valid viewpoint.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

When have I ever claimed that Jesus is not THE way? Salvation is by faith alone in Christ. How is any part of that message anti-christ?

You say that Jesus Christ did not fulfill the prophecy of the Christ. That salvation has not yet come until the coming of the Antichrist in a future 70th week.

BELIEVERpriest

You are the one who calls Jesus a lyer by saying that water baptism is a requisite for salvation, therefore denying that salvation is by faith alone.

Jesus and His apostles taught that repentance and baptism were necessary actions of faith.

Acts 2:37-40 KJV
[37] Now when they heard this , they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. [40] And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

BELIEVERpriest

God is not interested in your self-righteous water baptism. First you must believe on the Son. Water baptism is merely a symbol of faith.

Baptism is not self-righteous since it is God who does the work of remitting sins at baptism. Baptism is "for" the remission of sins, it is when God remits sin.

BELIEVERpriest

So who is the anti-christ here? The one teaching salvation by faith, or the one teaching salvation by works?

Baptism is no more a work than repentance and you say repentance is necessary for salvation.

BELIEVERpriest

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

Im sorry, but that is simply untrue,

Dude .. you are dead wrong. There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

John 17:15 (JESUS praying to The Father) "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou should keep them from evil."

Luke 17:29,30 (Jesus speaking) ...(in) Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven and destroyed THEM ALL. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. THE WICKED were destroyed, once again.

Matthew 24:21,22 and Mark 13:19,20 (Jesus speaking) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved (survive); but for THE ELECT's sake whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER be REMOVED;

Psalm 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land (earth) and dwell therein FOREVER.

Psalm 37:9-11 For evildoers (WICKED) shall be cut off (destroyed); but those that wait upon the Lord shall inherit the earth.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger...and He shall destroy the sinners thereof OUT of it (the earth).

Psalm 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed OUT OF THE EARTH (world), and let the wicked be no more

Matthew 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or "catching away" was an important part of Darby's teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the "rapture" had made its way to the United States.

In the late 1800's, America was fertile ground for a wide variety of religious extremists, most notably the Adventist movements. These movements, which produced new denominations, sects, and cults, almost always had as one of their chief tenets the belief that Christ was going to return to earth "very soon" and that they could tell you when. As the eschatological and apocalyptic teachings of the Plymouth Brethren entered this mix of religious fervor, some of their teachings became a permanent fixture within the newly formed sects. Among the many heresies of the "brethren" the Rapture was the most successful. It even went on to affect millions of people in denominations which had not yet been formed. Two examples of this are the Assemblies of God and the United Pentecostal Church which were not founded until early in the 20th century. At about this same time the Rapture made its way into the theology of the Southern Baptist Church, which had not previously known of the teaching.

Today, prophecy pundits and "end-time" revivalists preach the Rapture as if it were established dogma from the time of Christ until the present. The truth is that the first historical reference to the Rapture doctrine comes from the Plymouth Brethren. Not only is the Rapture not found in the teachings of the Church, but even "end-time" heretics throughout the centuries never dreamed of proposing such a novel idea. For example, the 4th century Montanists, who preached both pre-millenialism and that they knew when Christ would return, never ventured so far as to create another 2nd coming of the Lord in a secret rapture.

source

GOD HAS NEVER SAVED HIS PEOPLE FROM TRIBULATION.
If anything, they have suffered more than others.

No Pre-Trib Rapture

The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject. . . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

Read "The Rapture Trap" by Paul Thigpen.

Awen24
This is wildly incorrect. Whether you agree or disagree with a pre-tribulation rapture, you're stating things as fact that simply aren't accurate at all.

Nope. It's totally accurate. I understand that those counting on a 'get out of tribulation free' card don't like to hear that. And that's why this nonsense about 'pre trib rapture' is so dangerous. People aren't preparing themselves for the tribulations they'll go through and when God doesn't swoop in and end their sufferings, their faith will be lost. Simply put - Pre-trib rapture is a doctrine of demons created to cause Christians to fail in their faith when times get difficult.

The rapture CULT was invented by Nelson Darby. And as for the early church beliefs ... here ya' go ... Source

True, several early Christian writers — notably Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Methodius, Commodianus, and Lactanitus — were premillennialists who believed that Christ’s Second Coming would lead to a visible, earthly reign. But the premillennialism they embraced was quite different from that taught by modern dispensationalists.

Catholic scholars acknowledge that some of the Fathers were influenced by the Jewish belief in an earthly Messianic kingdom, while others embraced millennarianism as a reaction to the Gnostic antagonism toward the material realm. ...

Those early premillennialists did not hold to distinctively modern and dispensationalist beliefs, especially not the belief in a pretribulation Rapture and the radical distinction between an earthly and a heavenly people of God; such beliefs didn’t come about until many centuries later. The early Church Fathers, whether premillennialist or otherwise, believed that the Church was the New Israel and that Christians — consisting of both Jews and Gentiles (cf. Romans 10:12) — had replaced the Jews as God’s chosen people.

In attempting to prove the validity of their beliefs by appealing to early Church Fathers, dispensationalists always ignore the Church Fathers’ unanimous teachings about the nature of the Eucharist, the authority and nature of the Church, and a host of other distinctively Catholic beliefs. They also conveniently blur the lines between the historical premillennialism of certain early Church writers and the dispensational premillennialism of Darby and his disciples.

FlyersFan

Awen24
This is wildly incorrect. Whether you agree or disagree with a pre-tribulation rapture, you're stating things as fact that simply aren't accurate at all.

Nope. It's totally accurate. I understand that those counting on a 'get out of tribulation free' card don't like to hear that. And that's why this nonsense about 'pre trib rapture' is so dangerous. People aren't preparing themselves for the tribulations they'll go through and when God doesn't swoop in and end their sufferings, their faith will be lost. Simply put - Pre-trib rapture is a doctrine of demons created to cause Christians to fail in their faith when times get difficult.

ATS Thread - Pretrib Rapture - One Way Ticket to Hell

The rapture CULT was invented by Nelson Darby. And as for the early church beliefs ... here ya' go ... Source

True, several early Christian writers — notably Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Methodius, Commodianus, and Lactanitus — were premillennialists who believed that Christ’s Second Coming would lead to a visible, earthly reign. But the premillennialism they embraced was quite different from that taught by modern dispensationalists.

Catholic scholars acknowledge that some of the Fathers were influenced by the Jewish belief in an earthly Messianic kingdom, while others embraced millennarianism as a reaction to the Gnostic antagonism toward the material realm. ...

Those early premillennialists did not hold to distinctively modern and dispensationalist beliefs, especially not the belief in a pretribulation Rapture and the radical distinction between an earthly and a heavenly people of God; such beliefs didn’t come about until many centuries later. The early Church Fathers, whether premillennialist or otherwise, believed that the Church was the New Israel and that Christians — consisting of both Jews and Gentiles (cf. Romans 10:12) — had replaced the Jews as God’s chosen people.

In attempting to prove the validity of their beliefs by appealing to early Church Fathers, dispensationalists always ignore the Church Fathers’ unanimous teachings about the nature of the Eucharist, the authority and nature of the Church, and a host of other distinctively Catholic beliefs. They also conveniently blur the lines between the historical premillennialism of certain early Church writers and the dispensational premillennialism of Darby and his disciples.

edit on 9/20/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. That is an invention of failed Anglican priest, Nelson Darby, in the 1800s. "Rapture" is not in scripture. In fact, just the opposite is in scripture - the good stay and the bad are taken off Earth. No "get out of tribulation free' card has ever been given to any of God's faithful. As a matter of fact, just the opposite usually happens. Those who follow God (or Jesus) usually suffer greatly.

You want to support this claim with Scripture? And of course RAPTURE is not in Scripture. Rapture is an English word....no English words are in Scripture. Rapture stems from the Greek word Harpazo which means to be "caught up."

reply to post by FlyersFan


You need to remember brother. Our take on the rapture whether pre or post tribe doesn't hinder our salvation.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


Priest it looks like we have another disagreement. Spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Holy Spirit to help us spread the word. At the moment of salvation, we both know the Holy Spirit indwells within us.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

You do not believe we are still given Spiritual Gifts to help witness to nonbelievers?

With all this in mind, I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I disagree. Israel needed to be reborn, because there has to be a temple during the Tribulation.

Matthew 24:15 tells us the abomination will be standing in the holy place. The holy place is the Jewish temple. The temple can only be present when Israel occupies the promised land.

My motivation for posting this thread is to confront these false notions that the establishment of the Neo-Zionist state in Palestine in 1948 was some how fullfilment of prophecy, and the idea that the blood moon tetrad had some magical role in God's plan.

I cannot help but think this little part was for me I know you disagree, but I do not think the tetrad has some magical role in God's plan. I just think the tetrads are possibly a warning from God that the time is extremely near. I think the solar eclipses in 2015 are a sign of the Rapture.

Genesis 1:14
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

Passage literally translates to mean let them serve as "beacons" to mark "appointed times." This passage is very clear that God uses the celestial bodies as warnings and signs of change. Example Solar eclipse the day Jesus Died. God was signaling the entrance into the Church Age.

Joel 2:30-31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered

One blood moon and One solar eclipse before a partial Solar eclipse on the Feast of Trumpets. I am not saying these play a magical role....I am saying God could possibly be warning us that the time is near.


Amos 8
“In that day,” declares the Sovereign Lord,

“I will make the sun go down at noon
and darken the earth in broad daylight.
10 I will turn your religious festivals into mourning
and all your singing into weeping.
I will make all of you wear sackcloth
and shave your heads.
I will make that time like mourning for an only son
and the end of it like a bitter day.

11 “The days are coming,” declares the Sovereign Lord,
“when I will send a famine through the land—
not a famine of food or a thirst for water,
but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord.
12 People will stagger from sea to sea
and wander from north to east,
searching for the word of the Lord,
but they will not find it.

Another possible reference to an eclipse.

Rev.6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind....

Another example of God using the Sun and Moon as signs...


I cannot prove this but it is a pattern that I have observed throughout history. I still do not understand why you use the Gregorian calendar. If you do not use a 360 day time frame for prophecy then how do you pull 3.5 years from rev. 12:14 rev 11:2 rev 12:6.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


From this post of mine

Christ’s words – ‘Great distress shall be upon the earth and wrath upon
this people; they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive
among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (Luke 21:23-24) and then He
says ‘For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from
the beginning of the world until now, no human being would be saved;
for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:22).

Christ Himself says that there will be a time of trial for Christians just
before his second coming. He doesn’t say that anyone will be snatched
out of tribulation but the one ‘who endures to the end will be saved”
(Matthew 24:13; see also 10:22) The days of trial are not a time of
escape, but rather a time of sifting, proving, and purging the faithful.

Then Christ talks about his Second Coming in spectacular terms – ‘For as
the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be
the coming of the Son of Man’ (Matthew 24:27). The event will definitely
NOT be secret. It will be seen and felt by all. No secret rapture here!

Then Christ says about his arrival – ‘Then will appear the sign of the Son of
Man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they
will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory; and He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and
they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to
another. (Matthew 24:30-31) Trumpets and lightening are NOT a secret
rapture.

All through scripture we find Christ ‘coming on the clouds of heaven’ and
that he descends with the clouds for judgement with glory and power and
that there are heavenly trumpets with lightening and thunder. No secret
rapture.

Biblical history tells us that clouds were associated with the glory of God’s
presence. Not only in the NT but in the OT as well – Exodus 13:21,
Exodus 24:12-18, Exodus 40:34, 1 Kings 8:10-11, Ezekiel 10:3-4

Christ’s primary reason for His return is the last judgement of the human
race.

‘He is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead’
(Acts 10:42) For the judgement of the dead to take place, the dead
must first be raised.

‘Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have
fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all
be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at
His coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when He
delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and
every authority and power. (1 Cor 15:20-24) – so first is Christ’s coming,
then the resurrection of the dead, and then the judgement (triumph over
evil).

Those who die in friendship with God will accompany Him when He returns
for His second coming – 1 Thessalonians 3:13 – this is not rapture, this is
part of judgement As is this –

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through
Jesus, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep … we who are
alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those
who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descendfrom heaven with
a cry of command, with the archangels call, and with the sound of the
trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are
alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to
meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord
(1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).

No secret rapture here … just the raising of the dead and judgement.

Also - it was the custom of the time to 'go out' to meet and escort a
dignitary to his destination. This was honoring that dignitary. Those
who are 'caught up' to the clouds (God's Glory) to escort Christ are not
people who have gotten out of suffering through tribulation. They are
those who have suffered and 'washed their robes' ... and are following
the custom of the time to go greet and honor the dignitary. Families
even did this with fathers. It's all through scripture.

Martyrs of the Tribulation (no rapture for the faithful before Christ comes)

‘On that day, each faithful Chrsitian will become a ‘partaker in the glory
that is to be revealed’ (1 Peter 5:1). Those who ‘suffer with Him (for His
sake) through the terrors of the last days will at that time ‘also be glorified
with Him’ (Romans 8:17)

‘The souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the
witness they had borne … each given a white robe and told to rest a little
longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should
be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been (Rev 6:9-
11) … ‘Whence have they come? The elder declared ‘These are they who
have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and
made them white in the blood of the lamb” Rev 7:13-14 God didn’t rescue
faithful from the horrors of persecution in the end times.

Jesus Prayed – ‘I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that
you keep them from the evil one’ – John 17:15

ServantOfTheLamb
Our take on the rapture whether pre or post tribe doesn't hinder our salvation.

... and yet so many cling to it like it does matter ... like those that can see there is no pre-trib rapture have rejected Christ or something. It's really strange.

FlyersFan

ServantOfTheLamb
Our take on the rapture whether pre or post tribe doesn't hinder our salvation.

... and yet so many cling to it like it does matter ... like those that can see there is no pre-trib rapture have rejected Christ or something. It's really strange.

I mean you are acting like those of us who see there is a pre-trib rapture have rejected Christ.

ServantOfTheLamb
I mean you are acting like those of us who see there is a pre-trib rapture have rejected Christ.

No I"m not. You are reading something in my post as being there that isn't.

Pretrib rapture is a dangerous doctrine. Not because it means people are rejecting Christ.
But because people are thinking they won't have to go through tribulation.
They won't be ready to accept being left here to suffer with everyone else.
WHen they are still here, they could easily lose faith.
THAT is why it's dangerous.

"Rapture" has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. Not a darn thing. Although, many people I have talked to who believe in a pre-trib rapture are rather snooty. They think that they'll be taken and others, who aren't as good christians as they are, will be left. So that's another danger I guess .... excessive pride in many who buy into a pre-trib rapture.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


I do believe all members of the Church have spiritual gifts. Just no longer the gift of prophecy, healing,visions or tongues. The gifts that we have today are far more effective than the miraculous stuff.

I dont disagree with you, Israel has to occupy the Land before the rapture for the purpose of the temple. But, that doesnt mean the rapture is near. It just means that satan is conspiring to prepare for the tribulation.

The current zionist state of Israel leaches off of the American and British economies. If either economy collapses (and they are collapsing) then Israel falls. So there is no promise that this present state of Israel will see the rapture.

So Israel can fall and be re-enstated again in an X number of years before the church age ends.

None of the OT prophets ever saw the Church. The Church was a mystery, only a future possibility. Had Israel accepted Jesus as God, the Church would never have existed and Israel would have been the bride of Christ. So, the only prophecies relavent to the Church Age are the ones between pentacost and 94 AD, and the Rapture.

Therefore, 1948 was not prophecy. It was a year of Satanic conspiracy riding the wave of a peeking historical trend.

Just think about it. What other OT prophecy relates to the Church Age in particular...none of them.

So Israel may exist today, but the prophecy you are identifying it with will only be fulfilled by the rapture, not the blood tetrad, and not 1948 or 1967.

The only biblically relevant blood moon event is at the 2nd advent, at the end of the tribulation. It will happen when the entire earth quakes and wobbles on its axis.

This axial shift happened at the flood, and can only happen once more per Haggai 2.

So one axial shift with one supernatural blood moon at the second advent. Thats the prophecy, no tetrad is spoken of in scripture.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The pre-trib rapture is for all believers in Christ good or bad.

You cant say that God doesnt deliver His people. That would be a downright lie. Noah was saved from the flood in the ark. The tribulation will come like a flood, and Christ is an antitype of the Ark.

1pet 3:20

"20 who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah —an ark being preparing — in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water; 21 also to which an antitype doth now save us — baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone on to heaven — messengers, and authorities, and powers, having been subjected to him."

God spared the first born of Israel, while killing the first born of Egypt.

God delivered the Hebrews by parting the Red Sea, while killing the army of Egypt.

God will call up the Church as described in Rev 4, and the fifth seal to initiate the 7 year tribulation at the first trumpet.

In reguards to the rapture, the last trump is the last shofar, refering to the feast of trumpets. The shofar calls people to worship.

The 7 trumpets of Revelation are war trumpets, as the tribulation is God's war against the non-believers.

BELIEVERpriest
You cant say that God doesnt deliver His people. That would be a downright lie.

Tell that to the millions of Christians martyred around the world ... even to this day.
I don't think they'll buy into the 'god always delivers his people' ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


People suffer. That has been true since the fall of Adam. But the tribulation is a unique period of suffering. A period directed to Israel. Not the Church. When the Church age is over, our suffering will be over.

Are we not suffering enough, that you want to experience the tribulation?