Sandy Hook - A final thought.

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posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I am not now or ever was postulating that actors were used, or this was some hollywood production. For that matter, I NEVER SAID THERE WERE NO PLANES. Damnit, because there are idiots who thorize insane and moronic scenarios does not devalue real arguments, evidence and common sense.

Most if not all the people who insinuate these things are people that I will not label but will just say have an agenda, whether politically motivated or monetarily motivated this type of derailment more often than not is due to intentional means and not one of utter ignorance.

Every person who dissents is not a crackpot. I think that any rational person who has done the research as I have on this situation can clearly see something is horribly wrong. Something is not wrong with one or two aspects or can be solely attributed to the press, something is very, very wrong on multiple levels and the daunting questions that we all, over 100 million Americans or 1/3rd of the country has questions for STILL have not been answered in any reasonable fashion.

What is the reason that I because of speaking out about these inconsistencies have I been labeled a "Ludicrous Liar?". I wasn't presented with any questions or debates about my stance by anyone before I was labeled as such and proved to be wrong. That doesn't seem consistent with the integrity of this forum and it's personally insulting from my point of view and you know what, thats all I'm going to say about it. Water under the bridge, good night.




posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Helious
I refuse to reply to any posts within this thread as it has been moved to the "LOL" section of ATS. In an honest effort to not get banned, I will refrain from posting in this thread again because if I do and say what I want to say, Helious will not be on ATS tomorrow.

Dang it, I can't help but ask, what moderator move this thread here and what exactly do they claim are the Ludicrous lies? Do I have a chance to defend the claims or should I just shut up? Whoever moved the thread here should probably tell me.
edit on 19-9-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)


I'm sure Springer and Skeptic Overlord would prefer that you just cork your inconveniently astute pie hole and stop making sense on their site. It's clear they don't want any attention drawn to the points you've made, and I believe that is the reason your well-reasoned OP has been relegated to the Don't Talk About Sandy Hook forum. I have no clue what ATS's angle is regarding all this, but I would advise you to tread carefully.

You'll notice that of all the points you made, Tenth addressed not one of them but instead chose to promote a dialogue about a claim that WILL get this thread removed. The question of whether or not children were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School should NOT be debated here unless you want to see this thread vanish down the memory hole like so many others.

Unfortunately, comments like that made by Tenth may provoke other members less familiar with the modus operandi of the keepers of ATS to respond in a manner that will give management "just cause" to remove the thread in its entirety rather than simply cover up the offending posts.

I understand your frustration with the absurd policy decisions of the individuals who control this site, but again, watch what you say. They don't want Sandy Hook discussed here in any way. Try not to give them an excuse.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by bigfootgurl
 


I didn't bother to address his points, because I"m not familiar enough with the subject matter to make such decisions or declarative statements.

I would however say that your knee jerk reaction to consider my response, as some kind of gate keeping, to be quite telling.

My remarks were personal about the situation that Helious and other members find themselves in. It's not the ATS party line and to be perfectly honest I have NEVER, EVER been advised to not speak my mind on these boards, in any sort of capacity ever, for ANY topic what so ever.

One thing I will say, is even when I disagree with management on board policy, I RESPECT that this is their playground, and the list of rules is their own.

~Tenth


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Wish I could PM you right now, but I was never referring to your personally Helious.

I'll get back to you via PM once it's back up.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I know the message system is down right now Tenth. No worries and I want to assure you that I don't personally think you have any agenda in this situation at all. In all my long experience on this site you are one of the most approachable, fair, exceptional and entertaining people I have run across and I would never mean to disrespect you because over time I have come to value your writing, intellect and opinion very highly.

In that same regard, even though I do not agree with the decision that has been made on this thread, I do understand that ATS is a privately owned and operated entity and that I as an end user must abide by the rules and decisions those that moderate these types of things make regarding such matters.

I do not like it in this case and feel it is unfair but I don't think being banned is worth it at this particular point because too much good is done here for me to just go away on this merit alone. The judgment of the moderators and admins is their own, I don't claim to know the reasons but for me it's pretty obvious to guess and that is my issue at the end of the day to deal with and not theirs, they own the site and I am a user so for that reason, I am bowing out of a fight I can not win because I choose to remain an active member of the community.
edit on 20-9-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 05:17 AM
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I'll simply go this far. This administration will do anything to restrict guns, weapons and "power" in general. They don't want the people to be able to fight back whether it be by force, free speech or by vote. It really is that simple. They want full control. What that means, and where that will leave us all is left to opinion. But in my view...it will be a very bad place. Think livestock.



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 06:54 AM
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what I'd love to know is where in the hell is the official report from the state police, that we (the public) were supposed to receive this summer.....

I was told by staff that once the official report comes out, I could make a thread to discuss it....been waiting for that day for a while....

I'm not saying nobody died, but I will shout from the rooftops from now til kingdom come, that everything about this thing stinks to high heaven....and I'd seriously like to know, given the very sane, rational, and reasonable OP, why this thread was moved to the lies section.....haven't seen any lies in the OP....should I maybe be bothering springer, or SO with that question?
edit on 20-9-2013 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by bigfootgurl
 


The only reason i can think of - as Xaphan mentioned - is the personal information about the parents of the alleged victims being posted. Are the owners of this site so worried
about being sued or publicly shamed over that, that they officially discredit the topic of any conspiracy theory related to Sandy Hook? The fact the forum it is discussed in, is named what it is makea it almost not worth mentioning from a reporters perspective.

Yes, i did notice that I can't give the OP a star. I can't give ANY of you a star.



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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I would like to put a humorous analogy out. Anyone ever get picked on by a bully, when they dangle something over your head, just out of reach? I think that is what we have going on here. And no matter how high we jump, the bully just keeps raising it, an inch at a time.
I had this happen when I was a kid, and I wish I would have just kicked that person right in the unmentionables. Instead, I just wasted my time jumping up and down, just like he expected. Of course in the analogy, the bully is a liar, and whatever trinket that we are being teased with is the truth.

Something about really good liars- besides having meetings in secret to discuss the lie with cohorts, they also have the ability to move the truth out of reach an inch at a time. If you say, "But Robbie was laughing!" They say, "He is grief stricken!" And people buy that.
For those of us who don't, they have more distractions- "Have you ever had a child murdered?" and if that doesn't trip you up, "Have you ever had a child murdered at school?" "Have you ever investigated a mass shooting?" "Have you ever investigated a mass shooting at a school?" "Have you ever been in the wrong place at the right time?" "Were you there?" and "Hmmm. I didn't think so."
And for the times when simple deflection doesn't work, they have a series of fall backs. Destruction of evidence, they have an evidence locker, they have CNN and Fox news, they have an army of coroners, lawyers, detectives, doctors, and politicians, and they have the Fifth amendment.

So until real reporters get on scene, we are not going to truly know what goes on. If Sandy Hook was truly a hoax, then we have hundreds of people working together to take guns from the American people by using deceit. And the president is involved.



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Quite frankly I had no idea if this was real or a setup. Because of that I checked a Cop forum to give me some idea what they thought about it. I suppose they could be lying as well but from what I've read there in the past I doubt it.


mobrien316 Moderator
Supporting Member L4
Verified LEO Join Date Jul 16th, 2005
Location Connecticut Posts 3,823

One of my detectives was among the first police on the scene that day, and I personally know many of the other first responders. The incident really happened. There was only one shooter. Lanza killed himself when he saw police at the scene. The mother had no connection whatsoever to the school.


Thread: Was Sandy Hook a conspiracy?

RealPolice Forums



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



"And if only people had approached it from that perspective, instead of all these INSANE theories that were postulated like fake children and fake parents etc...then maybe we could discuss it the way you'd like it to be discussed.

It was literally disgusting to be a member of ATS for that month after the shooting."


Well said.



posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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I was a bit dismayed when I saw that this thread had been transferred here. So many levelheaded and thought-out replies, and I can't star them anymore.



posted on Sep, 21 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by Painterz
 


I was more disgusted at the venomous complete and total denial that something other than what was being reported could be the only truth, and it appears that many of you have a line in the sand that certain things could never be faked,

What it means is, you can be had if things are taken far enough.



posted on Sep, 21 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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Painterz
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



"And if only people had approached it from that perspective, instead of all these INSANE theories that were postulated like fake children and fake parents etc...then maybe we could discuss it the way you'd like it to be discussed.

It was literally disgusting to be a member of ATS for that month after the shooting."


Well said.


I totally agree...



posted on Sep, 21 2013 @ 10:25 PM
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assets.nydailynews.com...!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/erica-lafferty.jpg

T ext
reply to post by research100
 


here is a pic of the principals' daughter on her wedding day visiting her mothers' grave



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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I monitor MSM news and 'alternative' news sites/forums to see the direction of 'herding'. I see ppl of true intent asking questions from both polarities/trolls and shills/those in the middle trying to sort it all out.

What I see here is some ppl are picking up on a shift that they can't quite put their finger on. More than a few here mention with the new format a sense of community has been lost (with the removal of certain functions that keep them in touch). I never use those functions so can't say from personal experience.

Some of the long detailed discussions of taboos completely erased. I found this odd and telling. When pressed for details as to why I see anger in response and chastising. Penalize the whole for actions of a few?

The AMA/also interesting. From the invited guest All crop circles are the result of organized teams with night goggles and gps? Citing only one instance of things that make you go 'um'.

The poster on another thread, Taboo subjects, that is now closed, that said 'somewhere in the middle' applies.

If something feels 'off' to you stay with that. Remember to trust your own impressions and until it doesn't feel 'off' don't be chastised or belittled into compliance.

Maybe it's just a heavy hand here/maybe it's more. I don't know but the 'off' feeling continues to pervade among many members, regardless of origin.

What I do believe, and naturally this is just personal opinion, is fear feeds the agenda. Consider all the fear topics that abound here and elsewhere. Fear is the impetus for stampedes. Friend said the other day what if all the comet news is a clever distraction? If we spend the majority of our time in fear, discussing fearful things, then when the time comes to make intelligent decisions based on critical thinking we might be compromised in doing so.

Back to the 'somewhere in the middle'…all emotion is a response to a viewpoint. Change the viewpoint/change the emotional response. The way out of the matrix is to be the neutral observer/consider all sides. Importantly, question everything as one member in another thread pointed out.

If any site attempts to control that questioning, question that. As another member so aptly stated, if the tos are such that entire threads can be deleted instead of being edited…something to ponder/a definite bone to the trolls and shills.

Somewhere in the middle/the neutral observer.

peace


edit on 22-9-2013 by arosebyanyothername because: clarification



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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I see instances of site "authorities" painting with a broad brush, and seemingly using the same tactics that one would expect from trolls or harsh critics.

Is patience wearing thin? Is there a financial motive (fear of lawsuits)?

I would prefer to believe this than to think that leadership is in cahoots with TPTB.

We are all human, and starting or running a website does not make anyone infallible.

Further, I respect anyone's right to be mean and crotchety if that's what floats their boat.


I agree that we need to position ourselves in the middle and view the full spectrum of possibilities, careful to avoid emotional overreactions.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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I Will say only This : dény ignorance.


And This : when in Denmark; Stories & news coming from the US is sometimes Like a movie. And we dont get all the pieces from the start. And you have to be born in US to truly Believe all the lies we are being told all the time. As the American dream!!!

Its Like all the countrys in the West is beings brainwashed as Like all the ppl in east is being. To get farther away from a United Earth with peace


So when does ats get the heads out of the sand ( South park is yelling the truth with jokes ) when the msm doesn't has the Balls to do it.

Thank god fore ats & SP


????? So what up now with lock on some thread??? Now i can post here
also missing to give S & F what up? I did't hear about the new rules here
. So here is the place i cant post. Funny i Think that thread is about This ONE

www.abovetopsecret.com...Taboo topic


Hmm a little off-topic : early on, i was trying to make this post, but there was something worng i got msg. Like posting Its gets lightgrey And a "loading Icon" come up. There it talk about ?? Crap forgot to take pic of it? I was just so mad over it of I wasn't allow to post in all forum

Like i heard about a lock fore some membres? Or what is going on here?
edit on 22-9-2013 by kadara_dk because: Reason is 3 hours ago it was not option fore me to make a post here.?
edit on 22-9-2013 by kadara_dk because: Lesson 1 dont write Mobile. 2 about the posting it was in another thread i provide link
edit on 22-9-2013 by kadara_dk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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I'm not sure but I don't think we can flag or star in Crazy Town



posted on Sep, 23 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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I was relatively quiet during the Sandy Hook incident on the forums. It took me back to the Dark Knight shootings earlier that year in which I witnessed a very strange and unbelievable chain of events. I witnessed and evidenced the media lying, changing the story and making no redactions. They were simply discarding information whether it was true or not, muddying the facts with fiction and diluting the truth to the point that nobody knew what was real and what wasn't.

I think it's been a long standing problem with media outlets in the US specifically. It was apparent during Sandy Hook and so much so that I tuned out. I couldn't bare to watch the story unfold, and the deaths their used as collateral for an anti-gun movement. It was disgusting, no matter who did it.. It was heinous and vile.

I am in agreement that there is a difference between denial and conspiracy. Generally, my "conspiracy theories" don't surmise that NOTHING happened, but rather something happened but not the way we've been told. The true motives or true events are not revealed to us. There were no doubt deaths on that day and the people who believe otherwise are truly hopeless.

What didn't (in my opinion) happen.. Are the elements of the "official" story. The real motive hasn't been released and who was involved never will be in my opinion. There were so many holes in the "official" story that it would make less sense to believe it than to speculate to some extent. The story was sensationalized and hashed over and over for 2 months. The media twisted the facts, reported fallacies and never differentiated the truth. The people are OWED an explanation, most specifically the families and community of Sandy Hook. It has been long enough. If the story was as cut and dry as they stated, then the work involved to examine and produce the story to the public would have been done long ago.

I think we're seeing a delay because everyone is aware of how critical the public is growing in events like these. As they say.. "The Devil is in the Details" and they don't want the details to damn them. If the public was aware of any lies or lack of integrity in a case like this.. The media would lose so much of their hypnotic grasp and all of their benefactors would relinquish some amount of their control/power.

Did it happen? Hell yes it did. If you believe otherwise then you are out of touch with reality. The people who believe it didn't happen at all or that no one was killed are the "crazies". They are the people that give the Conspiracy Theorists a bad name, and the same people that the media focuses on when any light is brought to this realm of thinking.

Did it happen the way it was reported, or the way that law enforcement has hinted? I don't believe it for a second. There are far too many inconsistencies and holes. The theatrics in the media and by our own president were over the top. There was no delay in the government's reaction to utilizing the events as political fodder for their own agendas. No matter what we've been told, or will be told.. I am confident that the full truth will never be revealed "officially". So, it still remains a challenge of the public to uncover the truth, but it must be done tastefully and with respect to the fallen. As harsh as it may sound, one life is not worth more than another. It may be hard to talk about Sandy Hook in particular because children were the majority of deaths, but far more children died in 9/11 and the events that followed and we're able to discuss those events more openly. The forum was built on denying ignorance, and if that means disproving the ignorant folks who propose completely ignorant and ludicrous ideas and conspiracies.. Then that to is our duty. The duty is truth. Censoring discussion doesn't abate lunacy or ignorance. It serves to promote it, because there is no resolution or truth given. I can't say that I agree with a lot of what people have proposed as conspiracies but part recognizing the truth is disproving conspiracies presented as truth.

As a long standing and contributing member (not as much as others of course).. I think moving this thread to the "LOL" section is just as distasteful as the people denying children died. You're denying the forum the ability to express the very thing the forum was built on. I don't care if I step on toes saying this..

The only "LOL" I get out of this is the way it is being handled by the staff at ATS.
edit on 23-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)





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