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Zaphod58
reply to post by D_Mason
You need to find sources other than anti F-35 sites and take an objective look instead of following what is said about it.
Program costs are dropping significantly. By LRIP 8 the A will be under $100M per aircraft, and by 11 all versions will be.
The F-22 took twenty years for IOC and doesn't do half the things it was supposed to either, but it's considered one of the most advanced aircraft in the world and is raved about.
This was not a no-bid project. LM and Boeing were the two finalists because they have the most experience with this type of aircraft.
Zaphod58
reply to post by D_Mason
So you would rather give up any advantage, fly our F-15s and F-16s that are already approaching 30 years old, and ready to fall out of the sky, and start over, on ANOTHER 20 year development program, instead of trying to fix the problems with the F-35. Makes perfect sense to me.
Zaphod58
reply to post by D_Mason
Half the "crap" as you call it has never been done before. That means setbacks in testing, and problems making it operational. Would you prefer we stick with F-15s and F-16s then? Since we know they work and everything on them works? We'll just let everyone else develop stealth and say screw it, it's not worth it because it's hard to make it work. We'll stick with our 4th generation fighters, and pray that no one ever bothers us, and we don't need to fight anyone.
If you have your way, we're going to have to stick with F-15s until they're at least 50 years old (the operational ones, not the design), while they develop something new to replace them with. The rest of the world will move on, and we'll be stuck in the 70s, but by god you'll get your wish and maybe they'll build something that works the way you want it to.
Zaphod58
reply to post by D_Mason
You say you're being objective, ok, take an objective look at the status of the air force and come tell me how the F-15s can go "a few more years". You never plan to fight the weakest enemies around and build your force on that plan.
As of five years ago the F-15s were in their mid to late twenties. As of this year, 90% have flown over 90% of their planned service life. They are all G and mach limited.
The F-16 fleet had 25% with cracks in either the bulkheads or wings.
So you know the radar signature of the F-35 and how well it's stealth works? Where'd you find that out, an anonymous report? Considering accurate RCS data is at best extremely hard to come by, and in the case of most stealth systems classified.
D_Mason
Classified stealth info didn't stop that F-117 from being painted and downed by a mid tier system operated by people who knew what they were doing over Serbia during the NATO bombing.
As stealth has progressed, so have radar systems that can defeat stealth. Due to the manufacturers lack of truthfulness and military propaganda, we don't know whether it will really work, until it gets into that real world environment against our main adversaries. I wouldn't want to be in the plane, and have to attack targets guarded by a late model S300, or 400 air defense system, with later model SUs in the air.
Zaphod58
D_Mason
Classified stealth info didn't stop that F-117 from being painted and downed by a mid tier system operated by people who knew what they were doing over Serbia during the NATO bombing.
Do you even know the details of that shoot down? The ONLY shoot down of a stealth aircraft despite thousands of combat missions through some of the more heavily defended airspace around?
Here's a hint, he was on the same route for the third night in a row, and was hit with bomb doors open just after releasing weapons. Stealth doesn't mean crap when you repeat Vietnam with the same take off times, and the same routes over multiple nights.
You don't know the real details either. You know what they want you to know. Of course when it gets shot down, they will make excuses as to why.
Zaphod58
reply to post by D_Mason
And if you really look objectively at it, and all the details of it, you will see how much it has improved in the last year, and how fast things are starting to work. Yes it's taken longer than it should, but you know who chose the "crap" on it as you call it? The military. They put out the RFP with the requirements, and the contractors are expected to make it work.
But you're right, let's use 1970s designs that are going to be next to useless in the next 5-10 years for another 20 years while we develop something totally new. If we build new ones of them, then it will suddenly make them much more effective.
You don't know the real details either. You know what they want you to know. Of course when it gets shot down, they will make excuses as to why.
Really? So all those reports from the Serbs about how the plane had flown over the same location three nights in a row, and they moved their missiles into that path because of it are lies? The reports from the pilot that they had flown that route several times and he was hit right after bomb release are lies? "They" got to all the information and scrubbed it, huh.
Zaphod58
reply to post by juspassinthru
Yes because all the military is for is mass rape and murder. In fact once you get to Tech School you can take Advanced Rape and Murder.
I've been listening to people like you too going in about how evil the military is. Try telling that to all the people the military has rescued after a disaster, or the people of Kuwait after being liberated from Iraq. Oh wait that was our fault too wasn't it.
I'm sure the people around China would love the US to go away so China could take their territory and resources. Oh wait, if it wasn't for us China wouldn't need them right?