Should the people of Israel be charged with genocide?

By virtue of a book of dubious historical accuracy the state of Israel was formed, basically given to them by the British.

The Jews were expelled from Israel 2000 odd years ago but due to this book and the insistence of certain people that the book is accurate they have been moved back in.

So what I wanna know is if the book is so accurate and proves beyond a doubt that Israel belongs to Jews does the book also not prove they are guilty of crimes against humanity?

If we can give the land back to the descendants of people who lived there 2000 odd years ago should we not also punish them for the crimes that were committed?
Torture, kidnapping, rape and even full blown genocide are bragged about in this book we have based this decision on.

Before anyone starts, no Im not racist, yes I dislike Israel as a national and political entity but I dislike quite a few others as well. People are people and I dont care if your black, white, brown, yellow or pink. Dont care who u pray to as long as you dont shove it down my throat.

It just seems unfair to me that we look at 1 part of the picture and say "yeah sure, here you go, your great great great................. grandfather lived here so u can have it back" but not "your great.......... grandfather did this, you should be punished"

I guess its kind of ironic and even a bit poetic/karmic that to get the land in the 1st place they had to commit total genocide, then after being expelled it took them being the victim of genocide to get it back.

So Israeli supporters, do you have anything other than "its the will of god" to justify this?
Why is it that the Jews committed genocide thousands of years ago its acceptable and even praised yet the tables get turned and they get given someone elses land?

Im not looking for a fight, Im genuinely interested in a decent discussion with an intelligent rational person who can explain the logic of this to me.

Cheers

Just to make the OP a little clearer could you elaborate on the particular genocide you are speaking of?

Is it the Cananites?

If you look at the history of any nation you will probably see genocide of some kind. Even the USA, and pretty much all modern countries. The main reason I think was the result of WW2. Im not too hot on this topic, but the Jews were displaced and persecuted for 2000 years. Culminating in the holocaust. This is why they were given back a bit of their 'homeland'. Im not saying its right or wrong, just how I believe it happened. You mustn;t blame the people for what the govt do though. Our govts. are responsible for more deaths these days than any were in the old days. Most of us hate that fact, I know I do and would hate to think people blamed me for it as Im totally against it myself.

greavsie1971
Just to make the OP a little clearer could you elaborate on the particular genocide you are speaking of?

you must be the only person on this forum (or even the world?) that needs elaboration...


p.s. love your avatar

You lost me. What group did they exterminate to commit genocide?

greavsie1971
Just to make the OP a little clearer could you elaborate on the particular genocide you are speaking of?

The Palestinian people kind of hard not to see it.

genocide : the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group

IkNOwSTuff


Before anyone starts, no Im not racist, yes I dislike Israel as a national and political entity but I dislike quite a few others as well. People are people and I dont care if your black, white, brown, yellow or pink. Dont care who u pray to as long as you dont shove it down my throat.

To be Jewish is a matter of personal faith not the race, so you certainly are not a racist to just dislike Jews.

Anything in between is a political and usual Zionism bulls***.

MrSpad
You lost me. What group did they exterminate to commit genocide?

Palestinians are wiping themselves out just for attention now then eh?

do you get paid much to pretend it isn't happening, or?

reply to post by greavsie1971

the Bible also contains the horrific account of what can only be described as a "biblical holocaust". For, in order to keep the chosen people apart from and unaffected by the alien beliefs and practices of indigenous or neighbouring peoples, when God commanded his chosen people to conquer the Promised Land, he placed city after city 'under the ban" -which meant that every man, woman and child was to be slaughtered at the point of the sword.

Thus we read in the Book of Numbers that the Jews "waged the campaign against Midian, as Yahweh had ordered Moses, and they put every male to death... the sons of Israel took the Midianite women captive with their young children, and plundered all their cattle, all their flocks and all their goods. They set fire to the towns where they lived and all their encampments... Then, when they took the captives, spoil and booty to Moses..., Moses was enraged.... 'why have you spared the life of all the women...? So kill all the male children. Kill also all the women who have slept with a man. Spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves".Num 31:7-19.

Similarly in the Book of Deuteronomy, when the Jews attacked Sihon's Amorite kingdom, "Yahweh our God delivered him over to us... We captured all his cities and laid whole towns under ban, men, women and children; we spared nothing but the livestock which we took as our spoil".Deut 2:33-35
Likewise in the Transjordanian kingdom of Og, king of Bashan: "We captured all his towns at that time... Sixty towns... We laid them under ban... - the whole town, men, women and children, under the ban".Deut 3:4-7.

Sometimes, the ban could vary; for in a later chapter of the same book, we read that "if (a town) refuses peace and offers resistance,... Yahweh your God shall deliver it unto your power and you are to put all its menfolk to the sword. But the women, the children, the livestock and all that the town contains, all its spoil, you may take for yourselves as booty".Deut 20:12-14.

In the Book of Joshua, we read about the most famous case of all - the fall of Jericho: "Then Yahweh said to Joshua, 'Now I am delivering Jericho and its king into your hands". So, when "the walls of Jericho came tumbling down", the Jewish warriors "enforced the ban on everything in the town: men and women, young and old, even the oxen and sheep and donkeys, massacring them all".Joshua 6:21

The same for the people of Ai; for "Yahweh said to Joshua... "You are to do with Ai and its king as you did with Jericho and its king..."Joshua 8:2 And "the number of those who fell that day, men and women together, was twelve thousand, all people of Ai ... All to a man had fallen by the edge of the sword".Joshua 8:24-25

The same in southern Canaan, which "Yahweh gave into the power of Israel; and Israel struck every living creature there with the edge of the sword, and left none alive".Joshua 10:30 The same at Lachish where "no one was left alive".Joshua 10:33

And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34

And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. Deuteronomy 3:6

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them. Deuteronomy 7:16

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:15

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Deuteronomy 20:16-17

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21

So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40

Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

It basically seems to me that Moses and Joshua were the were to the Amalekites, the Caananites, the Midians etc what Hitler was to the Jews.
The one exception is Hitler was stopped in time, no one stopped the Israelis

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I must add tho, it's not the people doing it, it's the government.

If *only* the people had any kind of say over the government, I doubt it would be happening at all!

buster2010

greavsie1971
Just to make the OP a little clearer could you elaborate on the particular genocide you are speaking of?

The Palestinian people kind of hard not to see it.

genocide : the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group

I took it he was talking about genocide that happened in the formation of ancient Israel, not modern israel....my bad. Sorry.

Oh, you are on about ancient Israel, I take it back

Beavers
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

I must add tho, it's not the people doing it, it's the government.

If *only* the people had any kind of say over the government, I doubt it would be happening at all!

I am 100% aware of this, once again people are people, 99% of us just wanna get on with our lives, make enough money to live, put a roof over our heads, give our kids a good education and be happy.
It doesnt matter where your from or who you pray to, this is universal.

In this thread Im not blaming anyone for anything, Im just pointing out the hypocrisy of giving anyone anything based on that book, especially since it seems these people were the perpetrators not the victims

Hitler was stopped in time?????????

6 million, is that in time? Im sure it is much more than were killed in ancient Israel. Not making excuses but.....

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


"Should the people of Israel be charged with genocide?"

No. The whole of a people shouldn't be considered responsible for the deeds or sins of a few.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Shouldn't the Muslims be charged with genocide? After all, they're the religion of death.

greavsie1971
Oh, you are on about ancient Israel, I take it back

The irony being, the same God that gave them the land of Israel, also took it away from them and chose to punish them and kick them out...

Ancient philistines, modern Palestinians, cananites, syrians and an obsession with gold. 2000 years and nothing has been learned

Beavers

MrSpad
You lost me. What group did they exterminate to commit genocide?

Palestinians are wiping themselves out just for attention now then eh?

do you get paid much to pretend it isn't happening, or?

We are not speaking of modern Israel.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Yeah, I get your point!

I wonder if the US would feel the same way if China gives America back to the Native Indians when they are no.1 in the world

greavsie1971


Hitler was stopped in time?????????

6 million, is that in time? Im sure it is much more than were killed in ancient Israel. Not making excuses but.....

edit on 18-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)

He didnt wipe them off the face off the Earth so in terms of total genocide yes he was stopped in time.
The ancient Israelis wiped whole nations, men , women, children even cattle completely off the face of the earth. We most likely would not have even heard about these now extinct people if they hadnt been so proud and self righteous about it and put it down in writing

reply to post by greavsie1971


Yeah, you busted me for not reading the whole of the OP (tldr haha)... but one man's Palestinian is another's philistine... same place, same people, same greed and bullshyte for way too long!

I think it's high time God came back and dished out some naughty steps!