Starbucks becomes latest "gun free zone"

Lady_Tuatha
Sheesh, it's the right of the owners to decide what they allow on their premises, frankly if I owned a coffee shop in America I think I would do the same. Im surprised there is not more of this.

I'm not debating that.

Of course it is their right.

My point is the consequences of their actions.

reply to post by TDawgRex



Yeah. These low level managerial people are unpredictable in their pettiness.

Thanks for reminding me of that story. Next time I see a cop in any establishment I am also in I'm going to try that "he's making me nervous" thing. If the cop gets kicked out I might just rob the place.

reply to post by TDawgRex


But then not carrying a gun is a choice and life style so they could argue that the gun crowed are trying to force there life style on them? Who is right? Well both are.


Best thing to do is leave it be and take your business elsewere. Better that everyone has freedom to decide what they want on there property than start dicating and restricting land and business owners freedoms .

crazyewok
Its Private property right?

If so starbucks should have the freedom to set conditions on entry as its there land.

Dont like those conditions? Well dont drink there Im sure they wont miss your bussiness.

actually i think they will indeed miss my business since my wife n i spend 50 bucks a month on starbucks alone, multiply that by millions of pissed off gun owners and you have more than a bit of revenue lost eh.

i'm drinking my last cup of starjerks coffee right now, screw them, game over go to Hellen Waite for your money starjerks.

beezzer


My point is the consequences of their actions.

Price of freedom though right?

You have the freedom to make a choice but also the freedom to suffer blowback from that choice!

crazyewok

beezzer


My point is the consequences of their actions.

Price of freedom though right?

You have the freedom to make a choice but also the freedom to suffer blowback from that choice!

Quoted for truth!

Although. . . . . I wonder. . . . . if the unthinkable happens in this new "gun free" zone, will their approach change?

reply to post by crazyewok


I am not a fan of frivolous lawsuits.

But the Government here in the US at all levels already dictate and restrict land and business owners freedoms. I'm sure it is the same way in the UK.

The only time I ever enter a Starbucks is when my friends want to go, so it really is no big loss. I'm just not of gun-free zones as that is where most of the mass shootings take place.

Too funny. Right in the letter it says they will not enforce this policy:

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thanks! A conflicting policy/non-policy that smacks of political correctness!

Biigs
I like it.

Having zones like this is particularly populated places like cafes does make sense. In states with open carry laws you see a gun on a holster and dont really care about it and dont report it to the cops. However, in an area where guns are prohibited, any gun can be called in to the cops because it shouldn't be there like it can on the streets (or indeed, in any place that allows them).

I dont think its going to set a precedent for gun free zones in every shop, but certainly higher than normal risk places, yes, why not!


Guns are banned in schools and university's are they not?

Yep, and look how good it has worked out for schools and universities not allowing people to carry guns to defend themselves.

Guess Im not going to be going to starbucks to pay for overpriced crappy coffee, oh well.

beezzer

Biigs
I like it. . . . . .
. . . . . yes, why not!


Guns are banned in schools and university's are they not?

Yes they are. And sadly, that is where mass shootings also take place.

But guns are also banned in airports, the post office banks etc and they are generally free from murderous rampages.

The problem with the schools and colleges is they cant or dont try to enforce the restricted zones.

reply to post by Biigs


They arent banned in airports. Just banned past the security gate like toothpaste.

As far as post offices go, thousand of people carry into them everyday despite the ban. Most people I've asked around here didnt even know there is a ban until I asked them if they carried into post offices.

ETA: Banks arent gun free zones either.

reply to post by Biigs


Airport shooting.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Post Office shooting.

United States[edit source]
August 19, 1983, Johnston, South Carolina: Perry Smith, a resigned USPS employee, charged into a postal office with a 12-gauge shotgun and began firing at workers in a hall, killing the postmaster and wounding two other employees.[3]
December 2, 1983, Anniston, Alabama: James Brooks (age fifty-three) entered into the Anniston, Alabama, post office with a .38 caliber pistol and killed the postmaster and shot and injured his immediate supervisor. Subsequent to killing the postmaster, James Brooks ran up the stairs of the building pursuing his supervisor and shooting him twice. [4]
March 6, 1985, Atlanta, Georgia: Steven Brownlee, with 12 years of service, opened fire on the night shift in the Atlanta, Georgia, main post office with a .22 caliber pistol and killed a supervisor and a coworker, including wounding a third coworker in a mail sorting area. [4]
November 15, 1985, Manitou, Oklahoma: Forrest Albert (F.A) Reffner (Age 39) entered the Manitou Post Office to check his elderly mother's mail when, Arvell "Pete" Conner (Age 74) entered the post office armed with a .38 caliber, then began an argument with Reffner. Pete Conner then shot & killed Reffner inside the main post office.
August 20, 1986, Edmond, Oklahoma: Patrick Sherrill, a part-time letter carrier, entered the Edmond Postal Office and fatally shot 14 employees and wounded six. He subsequently committed suicide.
December 14, 1988, New Orleans, Louisiana: Warren Murphy, entered into the New Orleans, Louisiana, postal facility with a 12-gauge shotgun hidden under his clothing. Later during his work shift, after an incident with a supervisor, he reportedly went to the men's room and came out brandishing the shotgun. He then fatally shot his supervisor in the face. The fired shot reportedly wounded two other employees. After the shooting, he held his ex-girlfriend hostage. Later two FBI SWAT agents reportedly were wounded upon finding Warren Murphy in a supervisor's office. He eventually surrendered to the agents.[4]
August 10, 1989, Escondido, California: John Merlin Taylor killed his wife, then two colleagues and himself at Orange Glen post office.
October 10, 1991: Ex-postal worker Joseph M. Harris killed his ex-supervisor and her boyfriend at their home in Wayne, New Jersey, then killed two former colleagues as they arrived at the Ridgewood, New Jersey post office where they all previously worked. According to "Today in Rotten History," Harris was initially armed with an Uzi, grenades, and "samurai sword" and was later arrested after a 4½ hour standoff with police, garbed in a ninja's outfit and gas mask. He was convicted of murder and sentenced to death. He died on death row in 1996. [1]
November 14, 1991, Royal Oak, Michigan: fired postal worker Thomas McIlvane killed four, wounded five, and killed himself.
June 3, 1992, Citrus Heights, California: Roy Barnes, a 60 year old employee, went to the workroom floor at the Citrus Heights post office, armed with a .22 caliber pistol, and fatally shot himself in the heart in front of his coworkers.[4]
May 6, 1993, Dearborn, Michigan: Postal worker Larry Jasion killed one, wounded three, then killed himself at a post office garage.
May 6, 1993, Dana Point, California: Mark Richard Hilbun killed his mother, then shot two postal workers dead.[5]
March 21, 1995, Montclair, New Jersey: Christopher Green, a former postal employee, killed four people (including two employees) and wounded a fifth at the Fairfield Street branch post office. While this is a postal killing, the primary motivation appears to have been debt payment, and there was no indication that the former employee was mentally disturbed as a result of his former postal work.[6]
July 10, 1995, City of Industry, California: Bruce Clark, current employee and a postal clerk with 25 years employment with the USPS, subsequent to an argument, punched his supervisor in the back of the head at the City of Industry, California, mail processing center and left the work area. About ten minutes later, he returned to the work area with a brown paper bag in his hand. Upon being asked by his supervisor what was in the bag, he reportedly pulled out a .38 revolver and at close range fatally shot the supervisor twice, once in the upper body and once in the face. Two employees reportedly took the gun away from Bruce Clark and held him until police arrived. Seventy-five postal employees reportedly witnessed the shooting.[4]
December 19, 1996, Las Vegas, Nevada: Charles Jenning, former employee, went to the parking lot at the Las Vegas, Nevada, postal facility and shot and killed a labor relations specialist. Mr. Jennings reportedly indicated in his statement to investigators that the labor relations specialist struggled to take the gun away from him and was shot in the process.[4]
September 2, 1997, Miami Beach, Florida: 21-year postal employee Jesus Antonio Tamayo shoots ex-wife and friend, whom he saw waiting in line, then killed himself.
December 20, 1997, Milwaukee, Wisconsin: Anthony Deculit killed coworker, wounded supervisor and another coworker with a 9mm pistol before killing himself.
January 30, 2006, Goleta, California: former mail processor Jennifer San Marco, 44, killed six employees (five immediately, another died later). A seventh victim, a former neighbor, was killed first. [7] Marco committed suicide at the sorting facility.[8][9][10]
April 4, 2006, Baker City, Oregon: Grant Gallaher, letter carrier of 13 years, while on duty in Baker City, Oregon, reportedly went home and got his .357 Magnum revolver and drove to the city post office with the intention of killing the postmaster. Arriving at the parking lot, he reportedly ran over his supervisor several times. Subsequently he went into the post office looking for the postmaster. Not finding the postmaster, he returned to the parking lot and shot his supervisor several times at close range, ostensibly to ensure she was dead. He reportedly then fired three bullets in the windshield of her car and three more in the hood.[4]
November 28, 2006, San Francisco, California: Kevin Tartt, age 39, with 18 years of service, employed at the Napoleon Street Carrier Annex in San Francisco, went to his supervisor's residence, armed with a revolver and shot her in the back of the head outside her house. He then reportedly left the scene and fatally shot himself in the head with the same gun the next day. Early in the investigation, homicide investigators were reportedly looking at links between disputes between Julius Tartt and his supervisor, including what one police official referred to as a discipline issue. One of the homicide officials stated that there were indications that Julius Tartt was dissatisfied with work and with the supervisor. During the timeframe of the tragedy, he was absent from work and had called in sick the previous day.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

Gun free zones, sadly. . . aren't.

The letter tells of the true reasons why Schultz is requesting people not bring weapons into the coffee shops. Gun-nutters and gun-haters have been using Starbucks for their own political/personal agendas while leaving his customers and staff feeling uneasy and unsafe.

Here is the main gist of An Open Letter from Howard Schultz::

Our company’s longstanding approach to “open carry” has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don’t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners. Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners. For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

In circumstances when tensions are high, it would be foolish to encourage people to add firearms to the mix.

Biigs

But guns are also banned in airports, the post office banks etc and they are generally free from murderous rampages.

Where do you think the term, "Going Postal" came from?

And while banks might be gun free zones, they get robbed daily by some one with a gun.

reply to post by NiteNGale2


Yet, like TdawgRex stated, shops that make wedding cakes may feel uneasy with gay marriage.

They are told to "deal with it" however.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I dont think banks are gun free zones. Never seen a sign, never had a problem going into one armed. Maybe some branches/banks have the policy I dont believe there is any blanket law like with post offices.

I did some searching and couldnt find any evidence that they are.

ETA: Okay, they're definitely not. Just more ignorance assuming fact by the poster who claimed they are.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I've seen the stickers on the doors of banks here in Cleveland, as well as "Cellphone Free" stickers. I asked the teller one time for my free cellphone. She looked at me as if I had two heads. LOL

But I must be truthful, I've carried a few times into Gun-free zones, I just ignore the signs. A concealed carry is just that. Concealed. What the other people don't know, doesn't hurt them and may just save them in the unfortunate case of some nut job. I'd go to trial/jail in a heartbeat to help my fellow.

Wildmanimal
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well that is the beginning of the end
for Starbucks.

All tides have their Ebb.

If you can't sit down at Starbucks with a loaded belt and grenade launcher
contemplating collateral damage while you wait for some idiot to
dial up a Tall Latte....

What on earth is the world coming to?

They said nothing about ammo. You can still throw bullets at someones head, when the very need arises that you have to take down one of those yuppies. God knows we all have to do our bit to protect society against young upwardly people. They're a burden on you, and a burden on me, and a burden on society.

Mind you, as long as it's not automatic ammo. We don't want to go over board.

...

I dunno, I guess I see the point in the outrage. Personally, I don't think I'd be comfortable in a place where someone who feels that they have the right to be a defacto cop, can simply sit down and act out their fantasies. And if it's such a huge iussue, as when someone says "I refuse to patronise any establishment that refuses to accept my gun!" then I get an irked feeling from that sort of mentality.

Over a coffee shop.

Yes yes now all the coffee crims will be th eonly ones with guns. Oh latte de da!

oO

beezzer

Wildmanimal
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well that is the beginning of the end
for Starbucks.

All tides have their Ebb.

If you can't sit down at Starbucks with a loaded belt and grenade launcher
contemplating collateral damage while you wait for some idiot to
dial up a Tall Latte....

What on earth is the world coming to?

I usually keep the grenade launcher in the car. Something for the kids to play with because I keep the windows rolled up.

That's not funny on so many levels.

How can you even contemplate driving to a starbucks.. My god beezer..