Turkish F-16 shoots down Syrian helicopter

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Fair enough. I just wonder how long I would let an unresponsive military aircraft get to the border before it IS appropriate to take it out. I feel sorry for the Syrian " mistake" but borders exist for a reason and Turkey doesn't play around.

vonclod
reply to post by ThePeaceMaker

 

i wouldnt say there were any cameras right there..looks like it burned for a good time before anyone got there

In the first video posted the flaming wreckage is filmed falling from the sky

reply to post by Zaphod58


If it was being struck by f-16 rounds or even ground fire at 15,000' i'd expect it to decend rapidly, but it didn't and at 15,000' helicopters pose little to no threat anyway
believing it maintained it's altitude for two miles whilst being slowly ripped apart by bullets,and damaged is ridiculous
The most likely scenario is it was struck and destroyed immediately over Syrian airspace.

reply to post by all2human

I'm was of course just going off of speculation. And that's what I feared the most was that Syria would retaliate in someway, but as far as I know they haven't done any threatening. Just seems to be the new way of war: fighting without an actual DoW.

reply to post by all2human


It didn't have to maintain its altitude. A gun or missile kill on a helicopter is hard work, but if it was hit by guns then it wouldn't have been hit by many rounds. It could have damaged it, and started a fire, and they struggled to get back to Syria to avoid being captured, where they crashed after it got worse. The radar data doesn't show anything about altitudes, so it could easily have been losing altitude. The altitude they were hit at would have been high enough that if they were hit by gunfire they could have descended as they headed to the border, and made it across before crashing.

This is a helicopter hit by a MANPAD missile, that quite clearly continues to fly for before finally almost settling down into a field. Helicopters hit by fire can and do continue to fly sometimes.

reply to post by Zaphod58


And here's the Syrian helo, shot down over Syria:
www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by all2human


No, but it could have been damaged in a way that seemed minor at first, but got worse as they flew. Helicopters tend to try to fly apart when they're undamaged. The damage could have seemed where they could make it back, but it got worse as they flew, until they lost control.

They were going forward, and curved down slightly it looks like in that video.

Deleted

I would not be suprised if the helo was either monitoring or trying to stop rebels from moving back and forth across the border now that US aid has begun flowing Assad would want to do something to stop it. Must suck to be Assad not only are your own people trying to kill you, you aslo have enemies at every border.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Either way it was probably avoidable, and at 15,000 that helicopter posed no threat
but isn't the elephant in the room being avoided? the Syrian forces are engaging an invading force crossing over their border from Turkey, reverse the scenario and it's flipping outrageous, take away this intervention and this crap wouldn't happen.

reply to post by MrSpad


The Syrian government said they were monitoring a group moving across the border when they accidentally crossed into Turkish airspace.

reply to post by all2human


They crossed into Turkish airspace, both sides admit that. Turkey had every right to shoot it down if they chose to, which they obviously did. Remember the Turkish RF-4 that Syria shot down? That was no threat either, but Syria shot it down for crossing into their airspace. Were you this up in arms over that incident? I know some weren't.

I understand completely but who really are the agressors here? If Syria was conducting it'self as Turkey has it would be a smouldering crater and everybody know's it, What about the Turkish artillery bombardment of Syria?what about Turkey harboring known terrorist groups, even enemies of the united states? any retaliation by Syria?..no

all2human
I understand completely but who really are the agressors here? If Syria was conducting it'self as Turkey has it would be a smouldering crater and everybody know's it, What about the Turkish artillery bombardment of Syria?what about Turkey harboring known terrorist groups, even enemies of the united states? any retaliation by Syria?..no

edit on 16-9-2013 by all2human because: (no reason given)

Turkey did not start getting aggresive with Syria until they shot down one of their fighters. That was the red line for the Turks. Now the Syrians get close they go down.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

It fell around half a mile inside Syrian territory. The F-16s had to intercept it first, to identify it. They were less than two miles inside Turkey. By the time they could ID it, get back around into position, get a lock on, and fire, the helo could easily have turned around and been back right inside the border. Turkey had the right to shoot if they were in their territory when they were identified. The fact that they had crossed back into Syria doesn't prove anything, except they were running.

The radar data shows that they had come up and circled and were heading back down towards Syria when they crossed the border into Turkey. It almost looks like they were trying to take a shortcut back into Syria.

This is exactly what I thought you would say. The radar data that cannot be falsified. I guess one has to display radar data in a briefing or news conference because someone might think that you are lying. I think we are entering dangerous territory. The failure to oust Assad or even get a successful air attack going is making the blood thirsty in the West do irrational things. I'm afraid we are going to see a major miscalculation not just a small incident like this.

Maybe they didnt understand the lingo?

English is the official language of international aviation. Any pilot should have at least a basic level of english.

Peace

Apologies if it has already been posted. Data released by the Turkish General Staff of the incident showing the radar tracks of the Mi-17 and F-16s.


www.tsk.tr...

reply to post by tommyjo


I was trying to find a second source for that and not having much luck.

farmer77

Maybe they didnt understand the lingo?

English is the official language of international aviation. Any pilot should have at least a basic level of english.

Peace

Who decided that English is the official language of international aviation? The Americans? British? Why should every country on the planet Earth make their pilots speak English? Was there an agreement that every country signed that made English the official language? Do you really think North Korea, Iran, Zimbabwe, or Mongolia feel like they should have to make their pilot's speak English? You have an arrogant American exceptionalism attitude. This is why the entire world hates the United States, even its allies. The US tells the world that it is the greatest, everybody else sucks, you have to do what we say, and if you don't we have the right to kill you. The world is currently in a state of revolt against this attitude, and it is already evident that it is going to end badly for the US.

reply to post by Adaluncatif


The ICAO and all its member nations decided that. Otherwise every airline would only be able to hire pilots from that nation to fly there.

But I'm sure if you look deeply enough you can find where the US did something to force them to choose English.

And yes, Ethiopia, Kenya, and more fly places where English is the native language, so I'm sure they'd want their pilots to speak it.