Meditation - What's the Point?

One person's experience of meditation with the 3 Stones ...

Today i did my 7th meditation (in 9 days) and it always feels very gentle and relaxing, sometimes with some pressure in my right side of the brain and around third eye, but i always feel very relax, with soooo much love and gratitude …

I'm going through some intense period of change, quitting my job, not knowing exactly what i'm gonna do now, but (5 or 10 minutes) after my first meditation with 3 stones i got this amazing idea how to combine everything i love to do into something that could bring money some day, jeeeeeeej. And ideas how to make this thing rolling and even easier are coming every day since.

Through meditation i'm working with fear of failure, not trusting in myself, tearing down the boundaries around my heart … but my days are full with enthusiasm and joy about the future. I'm really excited – small smiling child in meditation is most of the times little me, finally getting what she deserves.

If you don't like to click offsite, you can listen here, but you'll be missing out on 95% of the majick if you don't follow the instructions or get a grounding in the concepts first

vimeo.com...

video not embedding and I can't see any buttons on the edit window, it is all hex labels, no icons!

reply to post by Sahabi


Quieting the mind and being clear of thought is not a methodology to destroy identity. It is not attempting to devalue thought, nor to get rid or logical rationalization.

When we quiet the mind, we can witness the origin of thought more clearly. We are able to understand our own inner workings and motivations. We witness the origin of emotion. We are able to understand our emotions instead of unknowingly being enslaved to them.

Quieting the mind allows us to experience and understand existence more clearly.

Peace.

i dont try to control or silence my mind, i used meditation to understand the truth about who/what i am and what to do about the world, with so much information to take in i go to bed early and just think, eventually falling asleep and dream, i believe the dream state is very important in meditation, as your mind unravels its self it becomes less noisy, free your mind to free your heart to free your soul to free your self from the shackles of society.

once i had a dream about being in the dark, i felt their was something in the dark with me, i reached out and grabbed hold of something, because of fear i smashed it to the ground many times as i franticly looked for a light, when the lights came on i realised i had a hold of myself, iv never felt such sorrow before in my life, i awoke with tears in my eyes.

that dream made me realise i was the problem, never been the same since, as i put my thoughts into words then thought long, hard and deep about them words i began to understand.

This isn't about anybody else, only you. You can not help a person until you understand how to help yourself. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.' We ask ourselves, Who am I to be god? Actually, who are you not to be? you are the outcome of all that has ever been, creating a world for all that will ever be, you are a child of the universe. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people will not feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to manifest the light of the universe that is within us. It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone and as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.
read my mind 388132.blogspot.co.uk...

reply to post by NthOther


faith is very missunderstood
if you dont believe in your self your best will never be your best so keep faith in you and the things you do because god only helps thos who help them self, you are god, we are one, to believe in your self is to believe in me, who am i? i am the same voice that speaks within you.

we are not a mistake we are simply mistaken, we have been blinded to our brilliance.

Also in meditation let go of your ego’s need to be right.
When you’re in the middle of an though, ask yourself:
Do I want to be right or be happy?
When you choose the joyous, loving, spiritual mode,
your connection to intention is strengthened.

read my mind 388132.blogspot.co.uk...

vimeo.com...

Trying again to embed the vid for you.

Really can't get any embed working. the last button on the edit bar (which I see as a box with F166 in it?!?! only handles Youtube - yuck!)

Smilies are a mess of green blobs with black letters over them, what a mess! Did somebody hijack the ATS style sheet?

I guess it must be local to my browser, otherwise there would be a hundred posts on Board Business, anyone know what's up?
- yep, in IE8 it looks ok, different from before, but ok. IN FF it is a mess!

Mods, could you embed the vid in my post above and then delete this post?

Astyanax
Meditation is a way of getting high by systematically depriving the brain of oxygen and sensory stimuli.

Long-term abusers start believing that their hallucinations are reality. They start to believe that life is a dream, that there is no such thing as the self, and other dangerous illusions of a similar kind.

Over time, meditation completely rewires the brain until it can no longer function properly. The abuser is then unfit for any form of meaningful human activity and ends up living a solitary, unproductive life, meditating all day long and dependent upon others for food, clothing and general welfare. He has become a parasite upon society and must subsist upon 'charity' — that is, the fruit of others' labour.

The most hopeless cases are so deluded they actually try to tell others how to live their lives. Since they know nothing of life, their advice is hopelessly wrong, and quite likely to endanger or impoverish those who take it. This is actually what the desperate abuser hopes for; like all addicts, he wants to recruit others to his vice. Misery, as they say, loves company.

That is the point of meditation.

edit on 16/9/13 by Astyanax because: of the point.

Happy to engage with this, I don't see it as trolling, just a valid perception of some of what goes on under the label of Meditation, although from your post it seems you are focusing on Buddhists.

IME, the majority of young Thais (for example) who do a buddhist retreat spend most of it playing xbox and even if they sit in a cross legged posture twice a day and do a bit of Pali chanting, they aren't meditating!

However, a few of the more serious Wats, especially the Suan Mokh Forest monastery which only accommodates a handful for training to be 'proper' monks, take the role of the monk in society seriously.

I was advised that the 'begging' for food is a service that the Monks offer to the local villages, to give them the chance to express loving kindness and other Buddhist tenets. I'm not defending or apologising, just reporting. I can tell you that Suan Mokh has a superb kitchen and produces more than enough fabulous food to feed the monks, and the one hour, dawn barefoot walk into the villages would be happily let go of by the trainees - it was a royal pain in the arse!

The monks I hung with spent a great deal of their time helping people in many different ways. The boss slept 3 hours per night on the concrete floor with a wooden pillow, the rest of the time was devoted to service of the community, with a few hours thrown in for his own personal development - not the kind of social parasite I grew up with back home in the UK where many feed off the social welfare system for years whilst they 'wait' for the 'perfect job' to come along and claim them!

As for the oxygen deprivation and the loss of reality to illusion, well, it's an interesting theory, not one I share, but I'd be curious to understand your point of view better.

To me, being in 'altered state' has only expanded my view of reality.

The relatively tiny portion of Life which most people cling to as 'Reality' hasn't lost it's fascination or excitement, it is just doesn't show up as 'all there is' anymore.

What is your experience of meditation and what is your definition of 'self'?

reply to post by RicketyCricket


since a few years on this site...
Your Spiritual Revolution VIII: Basic knowlege VII: Meditation for Beginners

Peace love and light,
let u guide by higher i

Mr.Irie

RicketyCricket
Hello all.

What do you say to yourself while you meditate? - Nothing

Do you say anything? - No

Am I supposed to be actively envisioning something? - No

Am I supposed to feel anything? - No

Am I supposed to fall asleep? - No

Should I be sitting or laying down? - If you want, try both...find one you prefer

What about standing? - If it works

Is the point of this just simple silence? Yes and No

What role do candles and crystals and incense play in all this? - An important role, or none at all

Are they necessary? - No

Can I play music in the background? - If it helps

Am I allowed to drink some water while meditating if my throat is dry? - No, you must die of thirst!!!!!

Rgds
LA

reply to post by JimIrie


Very nice. detailed thread.

You mention brainwave states:

Alpha (8-13 Hz)
Theta (4-7 Hz)

'In-between' Alpha and Theta at 7.83 Hz is the Schumann Resonance.
The Schumann Frequency is sometimes called Gaia Vibration and is believed by some to be the resonant frequency of the Earth (at the surface) – very nice explanation and illustratory animation here
If you make a binaural tool, I recommend using this frequency, or some factor of it.

LightAssassin

RicketyCricket
Hello all.

What do you say to yourself while you meditate? - Nothing

Do you say anything? - No

Am I supposed to be actively envisioning something? - No

Am I supposed to feel anything? - No

I know a few people who would disagree with your rules LightAssassin, I grabbed a couple to challenge

Many meditation techniques use music and dance and many use chanting, verbal prompts and visualisation too.

If you don't feel anything, I'd say you are doing it wrong, or at least, your idea of meditation is wildly different to mine

RicketyCricket
Hello all.

I am newish to the meditation realm, and had (seemingly) simple questions that I can't seem to get answered anywhere.

I was hoping that the lot of you would be able to throw in your collective ideas, mantras, reasons, and your "Why." The reason you meditate, is the "Why" I refer to.

What do you say to yourself while you meditate?

The best guide on meditating in my opinion, is also the best introductory literature on the occult in general. Aleister Crowley's "Magick: Book 4" is the definitive work on magick (literally defined as causing change to occur in conformity with one's will) and meditation, and also contains The Book of the Law itself, and several other magick rituals and formulae.

Do you say anything?

Sounds from your throat have healing properties in their frequencies. They shake certain things loose and get your energy flowing and your blood flowing. The longer you chant, things like Om (pronounced ohm), the more your throat chakra opens up and stimulates other nearby sephiroths, or chakras. You can chant or say or think anything you want, however, it is important to remember that the point of most meditation is to let go and relax.

Am I supposed to be actively envisioning something?

Meditation is simply a tool, it is not inherently supposed to carry any specific thought, but you can use meditation to focus on a single thought, or no thoughts at all. You can invoke, or banish with your meditation. It is important to banish your emotions and desires and all negativity in the room before you attempt to invoke something in yourself.

Thoughts will pop up and interrupt your relaxation, the point is to not to try and suppress these thoughts as much as it is to observe them for what they are, and then let them go.

Am I supposed to feel anything?

Not at first. Meditation is a test. Most people cannot sit still for longer than 10 minutes. Seriously, try it. 10 minutes becomes a very long time when you have to sit perfectly still, and I mean don't even scratch that itch on your nose.

It will take weeks or months even if not longer, before you may actually "feel" something, but the point is to remain consistent, and I guarantee you will feel something. Start out at 10 minute meditations, and slowly increase to 30 minutes each day, and eventually try a whole hour of meditating. Yoga helps calm the body and mind before meditating.

Am I supposed to fall asleep?

Absolutely not. The point of meditation is similar to yoga, or the yin-yang. It is not fully unconscious, nor fully conscious. It is the consciousness dipped into the unconscious. It is the subjective united with the objective. You must remain on the fence of consciousness and not fully fall asleep. If you feel like you are asleep while sitting up, then you are not really asleep, but if you're lying down and unconscious, then you're not focusing or meditating anymore now are you? haha.

Should I be sitting or laying down?

There are several positions you can meditate in. Sitting quietly is actually only one type of meditation. One can meditate during average daily tasks. I meditate while driving my car, or while playing guitar for example. You can meditate internally while mowing the lawn. It is simply a way of thinking, or being. It is a release of tension inside.

What about standing?

Like I said, you can meditate during just about anything. Sitting in lotus position is only one type of meditation. Meditation occurs in your mind and in your body no matter what position you are in.

Is the point of this just simple silence?

Also as stated above, sitting quietly is only one kind of meditation. You can chant, sing, pray, or speak, as long as you have the intention of meditating behind it. Silence can be the most powerful tool, however. Conquering your emotions and your desires is the main focal point. Relaxing and letting go of anger, or lust for results, as in the results of meditating for example, is the key.

What role do candles and crystals and incense play in all this?

Sigils, or magickally charges items can assist the practitioner in several ways. Anything asthetically pleasing to the initiate can be appropriate as long as it aids him and comforts him. Candles and crystals and symbols are encouraged, as well as incense and anything else that one believes will stimulate the right senses for getting in the right mindset. Some people like having a certain religious symbol or picture or figure near them. All of this is perfectly acceptable.

Are they necessary?

The short answer is no. However, if you feel as if it would enhance your personal experience, it is highly encouraged that you take all measures to feel as comfortable as possible.

Can I play music in the background?

Of course. I play carbon based lifeforms album Twentythree in the background all the time as I meditate. But more often than not, I usually have no music playing. I prefer the ambience of a loud fan, an aural white noise of sorts, to diminish any chaotic thoughts I may have at the moment. Sometimes I'd rather think of blankness than what I'm currently obsessing over.

Am I allowed to drink some water while meditating if my throat is dry?

Of course. One needs to fulfill their basic physical needs before attempting to meditate for a period of time. If you have to pee then of course get up and relieve that and get back to it later. Try not to interrupt yourself with things like that though. I understand if you smoke a little somethin before hand and your throat is dry, but try to hydrate before hand, you should be good for at least an hour without having to drink, eat, or pee.

Is there some sort of guide out there for this? I've looked high and low and can't seem to find any solid accounting of this, or even two people who do it the same way. It makes me question meditation's effectiveness, and also makes me question if anyone really knows what they're doing when they meditate.

Every single person is different, and meditating means something different for everyone. However, there are transpersonal effects and experiences that are shared among practitioners.

The best place to start, in terms of a guide, is Aleister Crowley's "Magick: Book 4" as I have stated above. It was written by Crowley with the intent to instruct the lamen on occult matters, as in controlling one's thoughts, performing rituals, reaching higher states of consciousness, etc...

Only read two pages, so far, but thought I might as well chime in.

Everyone probably meditates for different reasons. And so, with that, comes different ways of meditating. Most, I imagine, meditate for calmness of mind, relaxation, de-stressing, self-blessing and to feel love and joy. Others, might meditate for the experience, the deep relaxation, the astral projection, the out of body experience. Others still, for healing, or for psycho-somatic effect.

Me? I meditate for different reasons at different times. Depends on what my current situation calls for. Sometimes, I need calm. Other times, I need excitement... and sometimes I just plain have nothing better to do!
The way I meditate most often is through the use of deep breathing. There are different 'methods' or what I would consider 'visualizations' of the deep breathing method. I 'visualize' (and that is a skill that gets better as you meditate, and I can recommend some excellent practices for this) my breath as a sort of a graph. On my in-breath, the graph goes up, my breath goes up my body from just above my genitals, the graph reaches its apex and makes a slow curve back down, to my out-breath, my breath goes down the graph until it reaches its apogee and then it makes a slow curve back up. You, personally, might imagine that graph as the opposite, down for in breath and up for out breath. It doesn't really matter, just that your focus is on the visualization and your breathing. I have talked to others and they say this is the 'wrong' way to meditate but... how can it be wrong? It works for me almost every time...

Other methods I use include mantras, I use these often before bed to induce good sleep and vivid dreams. A mantra is simply a statement with a strong intention behind the statement. Every word should ideally carry its weight in the sentence. So, a statement like 'i might perhaps like to get a good nights sleep maybe' wouldn't be an ideal mantra. "I will get a good nights sleep" is a better mantra, but even still could improve. "I am sleeping well" is the one I would go for, it invokes a feeling of that statement being in the current and not in the future.

I also use pure visualization methods. A blind-fold would be good for this sort of exercize. To improve my 'imagination' and increase the vividity and lucidity of my visualizations, I practice it. What I do is, I light a few candles (or something, anything bright, that won't hurt your eyes... i.e. no lasers or HPS bulbs) place them a few feet in front of me, really look at it, try and remember exactly what it looks like, the movement of the flame, the candle, the candle holder, the wax dripping down. Really focus on all the movement and flow of imagery coming from it. Put on the blindfold and then picture the candle again. There should be a 'residual' image from the light to help guide your mind towards the rest of the picture. When you clearly see the candle again, hold that image... until it fades. Then repeat again the next day until you can hold the image for the amount of time you think is good for you.

Running out of time, but hope this helped.
Cheers,
/_\.G.R.E

reply to post by RicketyCricket



How do | (the "other You") control the 3 Weims and 1 Mag Wai? | control Me. Control the 'Self' and then ALL is in control. |'d opine that You were "visited during the night"? That is "You" telling You that 'Yeah, meditation is the sh!t, go for it' so buckle up and be 'aware' but not 'afraid', if You've enrolled in the revealing of "The Truth" segment allow 'it' to happen.. Oh and if You do crosswords watch how quick You fly through those... The dogs that You encounter no longer bark.

WELCOME..

You might find "indigo transitioning into crystal/octarine..." by the author Sunfell.
You ever been in 'The Zone' during an athletic pursuit? When things s l o w d o w n? It puts You there, | was going to type "24/7" but when You go outside w/no body, You aren't bound by "time".

reply to post by RicketyCricket

These are my answers to your questions, from my perspective anyways.

You could follow/believe in the Mantras if you want like the popular ohm chant, or just think subtle thought to yourself. Or you don't have to think a single thing to yourself at all.

People do say visualizations important, but that is up to the believer. Imagination could be vital and key when meditating. It usually come down to focus on a specific point, in your body, however, take this very lightly when it comes to the chakra practices. Could bust open a blood vessel, or little gland that embedded in our brains if you try to hard.

Yes, you are supposed to feel, and this can going in a few ways. There is kundalini(which has other names to go with it) which can be pretty empowering as well as mindful. There also meditations where it considered "Forced breathing", and pretty much feels like your cleaning your lungs, and your brain as well. Although, there not meant for everybody, and could come with risk namely to people with high blood pressure.

Sleeping, usually no, but it can knock you out for a good long nap. Others practice meditation just for sleeping purposes though.

You can if you want to, takes practice. Tai chi or qi qong are forms of meditation, and require you to be active, but steady and slow in your movements as well as standing.

Why yes, it all about silence, in plain theory anyways.

Candles, crystals, incense, beads, to God statues, are nothing more then a placebo effect, or sugar pill. However, results don't lie, no they are not needed. Unless you feel like it, or just need a little spark in believe really.

Yes you can, but it might take a while to actually enjoy the music. Go look around youtube for reiki music, and pick the ones you feel in tune with. Here is a link to a few of my favorite chakra tunes.
www.youtube.com...

You can take breaks if you want to, however, the longer you stay in the zone, the more powerful the meditation can feel.

reply to post by RicketyCricket


"if you have to ask, you'll never know."
-Red Hot Chili Peppers. and oh yeah the Buddha.

I did an 8 week course in minful based stress reduction (MBSR)at my hospital. It was basically a course in meditation and yoga. The course was develeped by Jon Kabat Zinn. So I would recommend his CDs or mp3s on iTunes as a great starting point. It's exactly the course I was taught and it has been great, I meditate every day and do yoga about 3 times a week. Something I would never imagined doing a year ago, but a really great addition to my stressful life.

They give it a scientific name MBSR as not to scare of those skeptical of religious practices as buhdism.

reply to post by life12

i dont try to control or silence my mind, i used meditation to understand the truth about who/what i am and what to do about the world

When your mind is quiet, you will gain a better gnosis of ThySelf and the "solutions" to the world's problems will come naturally.

We do not seek to eliminate thought. We train working dogs before sending them to do their tasks. This is the same as quieting the mind.

When we quiet the mind, we can experience the origin of thought. When we gain an understanding of the mechanisms and qualities of thought,.... thereafter our thoughts will be more clear. We gain insights and understandings without ever needing to put words to them.

We are not against thought. We seek to gain an understanding of thought through a quiet mind, so that truth and understanding flows more naturally without delay.

To silence the continuous inner-voice of analyzation, judgement, and comparison,... we can experience reality with a fresh and glorious vitality. We can finally experience the concept loosely known as "isness".


After learning to quiet the superficialities of the mind, self and reality becomes clear. After this, the quality of thoughts is more pure. After this, many of the "mystic" doors of meditation will be obtainable.

I meditate to relax, cure physical pain in my body, and develop a relationship with the creator. Edgar Cayce said that the meaning of life was to become closer to God. He stated that meditation was one of key ways to cultivate a relationship with God (prayer and diet are also crucial according to him). I am able to control my thoughts and focus on the present the best when I'm sitting straight on a chair. Some people say laying down is ideal, but not for me. I either fall asleep or end up letting my thoughts roam. Sometimes I like to listen to Omm chanting and chant along. It feels like a connective vibration. I read that monks began using the Omm chant because it is the sound of the sun. The sun gives life and is associated with love. If you tune to the correct frequency, you can hear the sun saying ommm. All the planets in the solar system have there own sound. Anyways, I also believe that meditation helps to maintain the proper magnetic field around your body. Harmful frequencies and magnetic fields bombard us every day. I think that everyone should meditate. You can do it anywhere. Don't have to be sitting down. Don't have to be still. Just clear the mind. Peace.

The point of Meditation is that there is none.

Once understood, enlightenment follows.

RicketyCricket

What do you say to yourself while you meditate?

Do you say anything?

Am I supposed to be actively envisioning something?

Am I supposed to feel anything?

Am I supposed to fall asleep?

Should I be sitting or laying down?

What about standing?

Is the point of this just simple silence?

What role do candles and crystals and incense play in all this?

Are they necessary?

Can I play music in the background?

Am I allowed to drink some water while meditating if my throat is dry?


Is there some sort of guide out there for this? I've looked high and low and can't seem to find any solid accounting of this, or even two people who do it the same way. It makes me question meditation's effectiveness, and also makes me question if anyone really knows what they're doing when they meditate.

I'd love your input on the topic, and I would be ecstatic if someone with some real knowledge on the subject could drop some knowledge bombs on the rest of us (mostly me though, because it is my thread). From the outside looking in, I can see meditation being beneficial to me, I just want to know that I am doing it "the right way" so as not to waste my time.

Thanks in advance!

Say nothing

Depends on what type of meditation you are doing. If doing an active meditation then Yes, you use visualisation to beckon the Journey (open the door) so to speak.

You may feel something, again, depending on what type of meditation you are doing.

No falling asleep, if possible.

Sitting is usually the more effective way to meditate, although standing is fine for simple versions that don't interefere with your day to day doing.

Yes,simple silence can also beckon experience. But very few people can do silence of the mind, which is the real silence you seek in meditation so that the sub-conscious can take the lead.

Candles, crystals and incense are mood setters for many people, part of their ritual for meditation. You don't need to do any of that.

Yes, background music can help engage the loose parts of your mind so that you are free to allow the sub-conscious to actively participate, knowingly.

In proper meditation for Journey, you will have no need of water when thirsty because you will not know at the time that your body is thirsty.

People do meditation differently for many reasons. One being that their are many perceptions on what meditation is, what effective meditation is and even why we bother doing it.

Some people meditate just to get some relaxation and mental clarity going, which is the the main positive for any meditation technique.

I meditate differently. I do it to further my own knowledfge of the Self (Soul) that I am. Active journey meditations done daily can assist in this growth and remembering, but only if you take your experiences seriously as pointing the next direction for you to explore.

You can find descriptions of the meditations I learned from Tayesin on his website. He wrote them down so we could voice record ourselves speaking them and then using that recording as a guided meditation for ourselves.

You can find it here: Simply-Spirit

The main thing about this type of meditation is to adjust it according to ideas you have yourself at the time as it relies on your the Soul knowing more about what you need to remember and how, than you the human perception does.